jnall%FSU.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu (John Nall 904-644-5241) (01/04/89)
I previously put out a query as to whether other anyone had the 1.3d version
of dos{read/write/dir} working, as I was getting illegal traps. With the
usual speed I got a reply which solved the problem -- dosread.c has to be
compiled with cc -O -i. This is, of course, clearly documented in the
source code comments. I appreciate the help, and it works great!
However, this does raise another issue which I think is worthy of discussion.
I first got wind of Minix when ast put out a general message that it was
available (that message should be kept in some sort of Hall of Fame somewhere)
and subsequently got the book and early source code. Minix at that time was
pretty primitive (compared to what it is now) but made a great teaching
tool. For many of us (and I particularly include myself) that was the first
exposure to Unix. The documentation was included in the textbook.
Since that time (about two years ago, I think, but time flies....) Minix has
matured a great deal, and is a nice, useful operating system completely
apart from being a teaching tool. BUT....(my point, at long last!) it is no
longer completely documented by the textbook. The book does not mention any
-O or -i parameters on the cc call. It doesn't mention rs232, or networking,
or kermit, or any of a host of things which seem to me to have been either
not mentioned anywhere (because Unix gurus already know them), or else have
been mentioned in a mail message (but what about the newcomers?), or else
are mentioned somewhere in comments in source code.
I hope all this does not sound like a gripe -- it's not intended to be. It
is intended to say "here is a problem for newcomers, so be gentle)."
Merry New Year to the worldwide Minix community!
John Nallast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) (01/06/89)
In article <6217@louie.udel.EDU> jnall%FSU.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu (John Nall 904-644-5241) writes: ... it [MINIX] is no >longer completely documented by the textbook. The book does not mention any >-O or -i parameters on the cc call. It doesn't mention rs232, or networking, >or kermit, or any of a host of things which seem to me to have been either >not mentioned anywhere That is certainly true. It has to do with the difference between software and books. Software is frequently updated, with releases all the time. New editions of books are sparser, one every 3 or 4 years, perhaps. None of the things you mentioned existed at the time the book was written. They are all now included in the online documentation, and will be in the second edition of the book unless the printer complains (the book is 719 pages; at a certain point somebody is going to say: "This is not supposed to be an unabridged dictionary.") Kermit postdates even 1.3.. Andy Tanenbaum (ast@cs.vu.nl)
jnall%FSU.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu (John Nall 904-644-5241) (01/07/89)
Replying to my earlier message, ast replies (paraphrased...) >It is true that all the changes are not in the textbook..a new book >comes out every several years and it is impossible to have all the >changes in there...however, they are all included in the online doc. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I disagree. The online documentation that I have consists of man_pages, USER_GUIDE, net_man and elle_man (as I recall...I don't have it in front of me, but that's pretty close). There are several things not in there. So I still maintain that the book plus on-line documentation does NOT give a new user complete information. Of course, the problem with pointing something like this out is that someone, somewhere, is going to say 'if you don't like it, use ms-dos and quit your complaining!". Hey, I LIKE IT! I'd just like to know (for example) what the -i parameter does on a cc call, rather than doing it on blind faith. jnall@rai.fsu.edu
ast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) (01/08/89)
In article <6309@louie.udel.EDU> jnall%FSU.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu (John Nall 904-644-5241) writes: >There are several things not in there. >So I still maintain that the book plus on-line documentation does NOT give >a new user complete information. If you could make a list of missing parts, maybe they could be generated. I think every program has a man page either in the book or in the on line list, but if something has been omitted, please point it out. >Of course, the problem with pointing something like this out is that someone, >somewhere, is going to say 'if you don't like it, use ms-dos and quit your >complaining!". Ignore such people. Andy Tanenbaum (ast@cs.vu.nl)
japplega@csm9a.UUCP (Joe Applegate) (01/09/89)
In article <1871@ast.cs.vu.nl>, ast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes: > In article <6309@louie.udel.EDU> jnall%FSU.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu (John Nall 904-644-5241) writes: > >There are several things not in there. > >So I still maintain that the book plus on-line documentation does NOT give > >a new user complete information. > If you could make a list of missing parts, maybe they could be generated. > I think every program has a man page either in the book or in the on line > list, but if something has been omitted, please point it out. I am in the process of adding all the man_pages from the book as well as some additional doc on asld, cc, kermit, stevie, elle, and profile to helpfile and will post it as soon as I am finished. I have also modified help.c to page the documentation and list all the available commands if no command is given. I will post those diffs as well. I am curently up to the p* commands from the manual... I have spent close to 8 hours on this already and would welcome ANY help by mailing me man_pages input or scanned from the manual. The goal of this venture is to give a complete and user maintainable on-line help system for Minix. Joe Applegate - Colorado School of Mines Computing Center