gs%ecs.southampton.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk (02/14/90)
I was very interested to see Andy's comments on P-H releasing 1.5 in an
unmanagable format for yet another price hike. With P-H UK's past record
on MINIX I dread such a development (if it ever happens here!) I would
therefore like to take Andy's advice and upgrade from the net, but so far
I have been wary of doing this because I don't know of a UK site which
maintains an uptodate (ie, known bug fixes applied) copy.
Can anyone help? I am a fairly new subscriber to the net, so I do not know
the full history of 1.5 or it's bug fixes, and certainly don't have all
the postings of the bugs. Judging by the mail to the net, this is VERY
common! Most people seem to go through very tortuous routes to upgrade,
with constant pleas for help! Do we/could we not keep a maintained copy
of the latest version somewhere for new bods such as myself to access in
the certain knowledge that only future bug postings will apply?
(I realise this may be a tall order, but there must be many 1.5 users
out there with a stable system)
M A N Y T H A N K S ! !
BTW We are running 1.3 as shipped on 2M Intel sys120 386 machines with
seagate drives, hd /usr and root in extended memory (from hd3). As this
takes yonks to install on each machine, will I have to junk this set up for
1.5?
Graham Sims
Dept of Computer Science
Southampton Uni., UK.
gs@uk.ac.soton.ecsast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) (02/16/90)
In article <11127@nigel.udel.EDU> gs%ecs.southampton.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk writes: >I was very interested to see Andy's comments on P-H releasing 1.5 in an >unmanagable format for yet another price hike. What's wrong with the format? Unless somebody can come up with a supercompress program, it is going to take about 17 diskettes. I don't see what else I can do except leave out half the stuff. As to price hike, 17 disks costs more than 10, and there will be 600 pages of paper along with it, including an up-to-date listing. While some people can print 400 page listings on their little matrix printers, the quality is less than spectacular, and not everyone can or wants to print out that much paper. > Do we/could we not keep a maintained copy >of the latest version somewhere for new bods such as myself to access in >the certain knowledge that only future bug postings will apply? It is permitted to archive all network message traffic, and that is being done, but it is not permitted to keep an online copy of the complete system for anonymous FTP or the like. If you get 1.3, you can update to 1.5.0 from the posted messages, but do it quickly. 1.5.3 will be coming up within a week. I think something like 200 odd files have been affected since 1.5.0. However I hope that 1.5.3 will be stable. That will be the base for P-H's 1.5. Andy Tanenbaum (ast@cs.vu.nl)
nfs@notecnirp.Princeton.EDU (Norbert Schlenker) (02/17/90)
In article <5441@star.cs.vu.nl> ast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes: >................................... 1.5.3 will be coming up within a week. >I think something like 200 odd files have been affected since 1.5.0. However >I hope that 1.5.3 will be stable. That will be the base for P-H's 1.5. > >Andy Tanenbaum (ast@cs.vu.nl) I log on to send a message regarding problems with 1.5.0's commands, and I read this! Here we go anyway, in case some of these haven't been fixed yet. Norbert ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a short summary of my experience installing the contents of Minix 1.5.0's /usr/src/commands, along with context diffs where I think fixes should be made. But first a few comments. An extraordinary number of commands generate warnings when compiled, most of which are caused by the definition of NULL as ((void *)0). I hear rumours that this problem will be fixed in subsequent releases by inserting into each program (after the #include's) the lines: #undef NULL #define NULL 0 This is almost certain to cause long term problems on any system where sizeof(int) != sizeof(void *), like the Atari. I hope the rumour is unfounded. Better to fix the programs themselves (or the compiler!). Some very good programs that were posted on the net some time ago were not picked up for this release. I refer specifically to: Peter Housel's expr (13618@ea.ecn.purdue.edu/14047@ea.ecn.purdue.edu) which supports the colon operator; Peter Housel's login (8771@ea.ecn.purdue.edu) which updates /etc/utmp, just like init does in 1.5.0; and Terrence Holm's versions of leave, users, and who (422ubc-bdcvax.uucp), all of which use /etc/utmp instead of grubbing through /usr/adm/wtmp. Their absence in 1.5.0 must have been an oversight. What happened to termcap(1)? Quite a few programs use obsolete library functions, like the Berkeley string routines, or _cleanup(). These should be changed. Now to individual programs: ci.c rindex() --> strrchr() co.c rindex() --> strrchr() date.c Uses gets(); fgets() would be better ed.c Uses a public function named setbuf(), which conflicts with the ANSI function of the same name. It should be changed (I used setupbuf() in the cdiff below). Calls _cleanup() unnecessarily. fsck.c Needs a definition of _POSIX_SOURCE before any headers are included, because it uses NAME_MAX and LINK_MAX, neither of which can be visible in an ANSI header. Needlessly prints carriage returns in normal operation. Does a putchar(*--p), an operation virtually guaranteed to fail with an ANSI library. gres.c index() --> strchr() Needless use of printf() when puts() would do. id.c A little code rearrangement makes this go faster. mkfs.c Needs a definition of _POSIX_SOURCE. mv.c rindex() --> strrchr() nm.c Uses %X to print long integers; should be %lX. paste.c Calls _cleanup() unnecessarily. printroot.c Needs a definition of _POSIX_SOURCE. readfs.c Needs a definition of _POSIX_SOURCE. rmdir.c rindex() --> strrchr() Needs a definition of _POSIX_SOURCE. size.c Uses %D to print long integers; should be %ld. strip.c rindex() --> strrchr() tset.c index() --> strchr() tsort.c Uses sys_errlist directly instead of perror(); such code is likely to fail in an ANSI environment, since sys_errlist is going to be name-space-polluting. tty.c Needless use of printf(). which.c index() --> strchr() Here are the cdiffs for the above, shar'ed, compress'ed, and uue'ed. 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rbthomas@frogpond.rutgers.edu (Rick Thomas) (02/25/90)
> As to price hike, 17 disks costs more than >10, and there will be 600 pages of paper along with it, including an up-to-date >listing. While some people can print 400 page listings on their little matrix >printers, the quality is less than spectacular, and not everyone can or wants >to print out that much paper. Yoiks! I'm not sure I *want* 600 pages of paper with my Minix! Could they at least make the paper optional? (I usually only print out the stuff I am working on at the moment, and then I usually want a copy of my latest version, not the original.) Rick
jdudeck@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (John R. Dudeck) (02/25/90)
AST writes: >...and there will be 600 pages of paper along with it, including an up-to-date >listing. Having just completed an OS course in which we studied the source code, with an eye to finding bugs (the prof. even offered extra credit to anyone who could find a hole it it that would allow a non-superuser to see raw disk or ram...no one found any), I would say that there is a definite value to a paper listing of Minix. Considering the primary purpose of Minix, which is learning about operating systems, the source listing is probably one of its biggest assets. On the other hand, not all who purchase Minix are going to need or want the source listings, and also not all who want the source listings (such as students) are going to want to buy the disks. It seems to me that the most practical arrangement would be to have the media, the listing, and Andy's book on OS's be separate products. That's just my opinion. -- John Dudeck "You want to read the code closely..." jdudeck@Polyslo.CalPoly.Edu -- C. Staley, in OS course, teaching ESL: 62013975 Tel: 805-545-9549 Tanenbaum's MINIX operating system.
overby@plains.UUCP (Glen Overby) (02/25/90)
In article <25e76a05.69c5@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU> jdudeck@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (John R. Dudeck) writes: >It seems to me that the most practical arrangement [to distribute Minix] >would be to have the >media, the listing, and Andy's book on OS's be separate products. Right now, there are two ways to buy all of Minix: the full Book (OS theory and Minix together) ~ $50 Disks ~ $80 or an abbreviated Book (only Minix specifics) ~ $116 with disks thus, the students get OS theory, Minix Manual and Sources in one book, and the executables separately (in the case of students, this might come "free" with taking a class using Minix). The hackers can get everything they need for less than the sum of the whole, and go elsewhere for theory. Having the hardcopy listings sold separately would increase the overall price of the package (I'd expect the Book and Listings to be $40 a piece) and then the Listing could be updated with the disk rather than the book, so that it would be out of sync with the book. BTW, At the rate pages are falling out of my 1st edition, I expect to be in need of a new copy by the time the second edition comes out! -- Glen Overby <overby@plains.nodak.edu> uunet!plains!overby (UUCP) overby@plains (Bitnet)
ast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) (02/26/90)
In article <25e76a05.69c5@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU> jdudeck@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (John R. Dudeck) writes: >It seems to me that the most practical arrangement would be to have the >media, the listing, and Andy's book on OS's be separate products. The economics of publishing are more complicated than you might realize. There is a lot of overhead, and the way it is amortized greatly affects the price. We are doing it this way to try to minimize the price for the largest group of people. As an aside, in the computer industry, a machine that says for $X in the store typically costs about $X/5 for parts and the labor to assemble it. The rest is overhead of one kind or another. Andy Tanenbaum (ast@cs.vu.nl)