nicholas@wacsvax.uwa.oz (Nicholas Yue) (07/31/90)
Questions (1) Has anyone manage to implement X windows under MINIX, say 1.5.10 ? (2) What would be the minimum requirement e.g. memory size, hard disk capacity, video card [EGA,VGA,...], etc...? Thanks in advance
jpc@fctunl.rccn.pt (Jose Pina Coelho) (08/06/90)
(1) - I doubt (2) Quoting from my command line: -rw-r--r-- 1 root sources 203832 May 17 15:21 libX11.a -rw-r--r-- 1 root sources 4462 Jan 26 1990 libXau.a -rw-r--r-- 1 root sources 163392 May 17 15:21 libXaw.a -rw-rw-r-- 1 root system 112478 Feb 5 1990 libXcu.a -rw-r--r-- 1 root sources 11288 Jan 26 1990 libXdmcp.a -rw-r--r-- 1 root sources 20866 Jan 26 1990 libXext.a -rw-r--r-- 1 root sources 23370 Jan 26 1990 libXinput.a -rw-r--r-- 1 root sources 52104 Jan 30 1990 libXmu.a -rw-r--r-- 1 root sources 202614 May 17 15:21 libXt.a -rw-r--r-- 1 root sources 4790 Jan 26 1990 liboldX.a Adds to 821 Kb even the tyniest X aplication uses libX11, almost all use libX11+libXt and the vast majority uses libX11+libXt+libXaw. (568Kb) So: Hip: ST Needs: shared libs (or each app will bring it's own copy of the library) Hip: PC 8086 (hahahahahahaaa) Hip: PC 80286 Protected mode (I don't think so (64Kb segments)) Needs: A (very) optimizing (optimist) compiler. A real loader. The ability to break a library into several segments Shared Memory Hip: PC 80386 32 Bit Mode Needs: Shared Memory (Or a big & fast swap) They all need TCP (or blood, sweat and tears over the X listings) SPARCStation VAXStation Shared libs Yes No X11 binaries 3.5 Mb 20 Mb Server 0.7 Kb 1 Mb Also the X fellows recommend 50-80Mb free before untarring the sources to compile. Arround here the X tree uses 83Mb The VAX2000 here are configured with a 25Mb swap space, we could live with less but less than 10Mb is very short (maybe too short) Beter have VGA (a bit more pixels, a more usable palette, X comes with server code for VGA) Three button mouse. Not a good scenario. -- Jose Pedro T. Pina Coelho | BITNET/Internet: jpc@fctunl.rccn.pt Rua Jau N 1, 2 Dto | UUCP: jpc@unl.uucp 1300 Lisboa, PORTUGAL | ARPA: jpc%hara.fctunl.rccn.pt@mitvma.mit.edu Home phone: (+351) (1) 640767 - If all men were brothers, would you let one marry your sister ?
bxi8859@cs.rit.edu (Ingalls Bruce X) (08/09/90)
I have a '386, and would love to get an (affordable <$600) X windows system for learning. I am considering Mark Williams Unix. (will that have X?) Is XINU too dead to support X? Could I get GNU OS and GNU X (does that exist?) to run on my machine? I am not a UNIX wizard (that's why I want this). I can't find/afford a mag tape reader, and don't think FTPing megs of X is a great idea. Any clues to getting X? P.S.: I have had problems sending personal Email from this site.
dstailey@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Doug Stailey) (08/10/90)
In article <1828@cs.rit.edu> bxi8859@cs.rit.edu (Ingalls Bruce X) writes: >I have a '386, and would love to get an (affordable <$600) X windows system >Is XINU too dead to support X? Could I get GNU OS and GNU X (does that MIT's X windows is in the public domain, you don't need the Free Software Foundation for that. As for "GNU OS" Richard Stallman is still deciding on what to start with. First choice is CMU's Mach, if they can get all the AT&T code out of it in about 6 months. Second and third are MIT's TRIX, somewhat similar to old MINIX in that it is message passing and only compatible with version 7 UNIX and Berkeley's Sprite system which is like BSD + something like NSF.
jla@wheaties.ai.mit.edu (Joseph Arceneaux) (08/10/90)
In article <9809@life.ai.mit.edu> dstailey@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Doug Stailey) writes: > As for "GNU OS" Richard Stallman is >still deciding on what to start with. First choice is CMU's Mach, if >they can get all the AT&T code out of it in about 6 months. We are now also considering writing our own kernel from scratch. This decision will probably be reached in the near future.
bill@polygen.uucp (Bill Poitras) (08/11/90)
In article <JPC.90Aug6160608@fogo.fctunl.rccn.pt> jpc@fctunl.rccn.pt (Jose Pina Coelho) writes: >even the tyniest X aplication uses libX11, almost all use libX11+libXt >and the vast majority uses libX11+libXt+libXaw. (568Kb) > > >They all need TCP (or blood, sweat and tears over the X listings) This is not true. TCP is only needed if you want to have X be network independant. This means that you can transparently display a window running on one machine, but displays on another. If you look at the source for Xlib, you would notice three types of connections: TCP, DECNET and a local connect which uses I believe pipes, or a similar communcation mechanism present in most unixes. If you want to network several minix machines with X and want to display from one machine to another, then yes you do need TCP/IP. Just trying to keep rumors from spreading. +-----------------+---------------------------+-----------------------------+ | Bill Poitras | Polygen Corporation | {princeton mit-eddie | | (bill) | Waltham, MA USA | bu sunne}!polygen!bill | | | | bill@polygen.com | +-----------------+---------------------------+-----------------------------+
laurent@hpgnd.HP.COM (Laurent JULLIARD) (08/22/90)
/ hpgnd:comp.os.minix / nicholas@wacsvax.uwa.oz (Nicholas Yue) / 5:36 am Jul 31, 1990 / Questions (1) Has anyone manage to implement X windows under MINIX, say 1.5.10 ? (2) What would be the minimum requirement e.g. memory size, hard disk capacity, video card [EGA,VGA,...], etc...? Thanks in advance ----------
ghelmer@dsuvax.uucp (Guy Helmer) (08/23/90)
In <3090005@hpgnd.HP.COM> laurent@hpgnd.HP.COM (Laurent JULLIARD) writes: >/ hpgnd:comp.os.minix / nicholas@wacsvax.uwa.oz (Nicholas Yue) / 5:36 am Jul 31, 1990 / >Questions > (1) Has anyone manage to implement X windows under MINIX, say 1.5.10 ? At best, X would be very difficult to implement and run under PC-MINIX, partly due to the 64K I&D limitation caused by the Intel architecture. At worst, it would be impossible. X is huge (40 to 50Mb of source, I hear) and requires either lots of real memory (8 to 16Mb) or virtual memory to run well. X would also have to be worked over to support MINIX's Ameoba net protocol, unless someone ports the BSD TCP/IP net code to MINIX. > (2) What would be the minimum requirement e.g. memory size, hard disk > capacity, video card [EGA,VGA,...], etc...? In comp.unix.i386, people report that X needs 8Mb RAM or it makes the machine go into heavy paging. To compile the X sources, you'd need something like 80Mb disk. It's often suggested that someone try porting the MGR system to MINIX. MGR is a small window manager that might be suited to MINIX. >Thanks in advance >---------- -- Guy Helmer work: DSU Computing Services, Business & Education Institute (605) 256-5315 play: MidIX System Support Services (605) 256-2788 dsuvax!ghelmer@cs.utexas.edu, ...!bigtex!loft386!dsuvax!ghelmer
eesrajm@cc.brunel.ac.uk (Andrew J Michael) (08/27/90)
In article <1990Aug23.145802.12274@dsuvax.uucp>, ghelmer@dsuvax.uucp (Guy Helmer) writes: > In <3090005@hpgnd.HP.COM> laurent@hpgnd.HP.COM (Laurent JULLIARD) writes: > > >/ hpgnd:comp.os.minix / nicholas@wacsvax.uwa.oz (Nicholas Yue) / 5:36 am Jul 31, 1990 / > >Questions > > > (1) Has anyone manage to implement X windows under MINIX, say 1.5.10 ? > > At best, X would be very difficult to implement and run under PC-MINIX, > partly due to the 64K I&D limitation caused by the Intel architecture. > At worst, it would be impossible. X is huge (40 to 50Mb of source, I > hear) and requires either lots of real memory (8 to 16Mb) or virtual > memory to run well. X would also have to be worked over to support > MINIX's Ameoba net protocol, unless someone ports the BSD TCP/IP net code > to MINIX. > > > (2) What would be the minimum requirement e.g. memory size, hard disk > > capacity, video card [EGA,VGA,...], etc...? > > In comp.unix.i386, people report that X needs 8Mb RAM or it makes the > machine go into heavy paging. To compile the X sources, you'd need > something like 80Mb disk. > > It's often suggested that someone try porting the MGR system to MINIX. > MGR is a small window manager that might be suited to MINIX. > > >Thanks in advance > >---------- > -- > Guy Helmer > work: DSU Computing Services, Business & Education Institute (605) 256-5315 > play: MidIX System Support Services (605) 256-2788 > dsuvax!ghelmer@cs.utexas.edu, ...!bigtex!loft386!dsuvax!ghelmer I suppose that I might as well admit that I have been looking at the possibility of porting MGR to MINIX-ST for some time now. It shouldn't be impossible; it has already been done for the ST under OS-9, or so I am led to believe. I decided that the job would be pretty near impossible until I got a Sun and an ST side by side, and I finally achieved this about two months ago. Unfortunately I have lots of other things to do as well (I've just spent the weekend putting an alarm on my car, for example) so don't expect miracles. The first thing is a 32-bit compiler (see the notes with MGR, although I suppose it might be possible with a 16-bit one, but I don't have the time to waste). Until we get a 32-bit ACK CC (hello Andy & Frans !!) this means gcc. The first problem is that the current gcc for MINIX-ST isn't compatible with MINIX-ST 1.5.10 libraries, so I had to work through the libraries to get them to work with gcc. Not too much of a problem (mainly make sure that ALL sizeof's are cast), and I now have a gcc-compiled MINIX-ST 1.5.10. It's about 40k smaller than the original, and noticeably faster. When I am happy with it I will post the diffs for gcc to the net. I then got the Sun to cross-compile me a version of MGR with stubs for the missing library functions which MGR requires. Some of these (like fchown) are just annoying, and some (like select) are going to be a real pig. I decided to attack the problems as they occurred, so I kermitted(?) the binary across to the ST. It gets as far as deciding that it can't find /dev/mouse, which seems pretty logical. I have got /dev/screen back into MINIX-ST 1.5.10, but am currently having trouble resuscitating the mouse driver. And that's as far as I've got at the moment ...... Regards Andy Michael -- Andy Michael (eesrajm@cc.brunel.ac.uk) " Software cannot be written to 85 Hawthorne Crescent be completely free of errors." West Drayton Middlesex - Acorn Computers Ltd. UB7 9PA