snell@utzoo.uucp (snell) (02/25/88)
In article <114@cfiprod.UUCP>, susans@cfisun.UUCP (Susan Scheide -CFI-) writes: >In article <768@mit-caf.UUCP> paul@mit-caf.UUCP (Paul Meyer) writes: >> >> I recently bought a spoon-fed African Gray. It is now about 4 >>months old and I am starting to attempt to teach it to talk. It is very >>tame and pettable and not hand-shy at all. If anyone out there has >>any advice on training a parrot to talk or perform simple tricks, I would >>appreciate it. >> >>Paul Meyer > > Poor Paul!! He made the fatal mistake of posting about > a (gasp! shriek! moan of disgust) PET BIRD in rec.bird -- > obviously he missed the heated debate in which those of us > who keep birds as pets were assaulted by the men of Toronto. > Now that we've been bullied out of this newsgroup, I've noticed > traffic is pretty stable at about 2 articles a day. > > I'd love to read the e-mail Paul gets!! >-- > Susan Scheide This is really a hoot, as clearly Ms. Scheide has been on a slow burn since December, but never bothered to rebut any of the arguments put to her. Now we are reading rantings about imagined e-mail to Paul Meyer. Good grief. Is she unhappy that we (meaning the system users at utzoo who read rec.birds, which is not the same as the _Men_of_Toronto_) have not bothered to comment on the latest rash of parrot-talk articles? We are just bored of it, as are most others. -- Name: Richard Snell Mail: Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1A1 UUCP: {allegra,decvax,ihnp4,linus,pyramid,yetti,utai}!utzoo!snell
ceb@sei.cmu.edu (Carolyn Bissell) (02/27/88)
> parrot-talk articles? We are just bored of it, as are most others.
How in the world can anyone be bored with such fascinating animals! The
larger hookbills have a mind easily as intelligent as a 3+ year old human
child packaged within a body around a pound in weight. Birds relate to
the world around them mainly through sight and sound as we humans; inter-
action between our two species can be far more complex than that between
us and other animals.
I get tired of people who feel the only reason for owning one of these
marvelous animals is because it is showy, prestigious/expensive, or simply
because it can "talk". My severe macaw (my best friend for over seven
years now) is a pretty garbly talker, but then, it never occured to me
to encourage him to imitate mindlessly. Rather, I've spent considerable
time and energy in establishing our friendship and communication. When
he says 'hi there' or 'water' or 'scratch' or 'window' or 'pretty good,
huh?' he knows exactly what he means and uses the words accordingly.
He'll thank me for a treat usually _before_ he eats it with a kiss and
a 'good boy'. He understands over 91 words which I can arrange into
new sentences within new circumstances and he'll change his actions
accordingly. Likewise, I've made every effort to understand his many
macaw words and tones and he is confident that he can expect me to do
what he asks. For example, a certain 'aaarrrr' and tone will mean "I
think that noise may mean that there's something wrong. What do you
think?" If I answer "It's all right", he'll settle back down. But there
are 4 variations to this 'aaarrrr', each requiring a different response
from me. I may have to _show_ that I'm listening carefully and then say
"it's all right" or I may have to get up, and actually look out the
appropriate window toward the noise (even if I know what it is but he
doesn't) before an "it's all right" will take his mind off it.
This is only one example of the incredible depth of personality/intelligence
these animals have. It's about time bird fanciers remember that there
are many reasons and ways to love these animals. They don't have to be wild
for our motives to be pure. To be sure, if I could wave a magic wand
and save the habitats of our birds and eliminate the pet industry I would,
even if it meant giving up my precious friend, but it's not possible. I
would have boycotted the industry if I thought it would have helped, but
with the way the rainforests and other necessary environments are being
destroyed, it seems the lesser of the two evils to preserve the birds by
saving them as pets. Hopefully, more bird pet owners will go to greater
effort to breed them and save them from extinction. Perhaps if the
dusky sparrow (?) had been kept as a pet, it would still exist now and
maybe some day would have been returned to the wild. I'm _not_ saying
that pet keeping is the only or best answer! It is just _an_ answer!
I am a member of Greenpeace and the National Environmental Defence Council.
I'm putting my money where my mouth is.
So stop being bored and high minded over people who love their pet birds.
Be thankful that the interest is out there. There are many of us who
do our best by them. You just don't hear the dumb questions out of us.
I rarely encourage anyone to buy a larger hookbill; I emphasize how much
time and devotion they require. But I've met many people who give them
wonderful homes. And when it comes to the parrots and macaws, in another
20 years ours may be the only homes they have left.
Carolyn
--
Anneth! what a charming place!
You've been to Anneth?
Well, yes. But not yet.
--The Doctorgp@picuxa.UUCP (Greg Pasquariello X1190) (03/01/88)
In article <4369@aw.sei.cmu.edu>, ceb@sei.cmu.edu (Carolyn Bissell) writes: > time and energy in establishing our friendship and communication. When > he says 'hi there' or 'water' or 'scratch' or 'window' or 'pretty good, > huh?' he knows exactly what he means and uses the words accordingly. < Followed by miscellaneous ramblings of how her bird emotes > Is this for real? Can it be that parrots can not only speak like humans but ALSO _UNDERSTAND_ WHAT THEY ARE SAYING!!! Maybe we can send a parrot to the moon, not as a test animal, but as an astronaut! Hell, maybe he can run for President!! Greg Pasquariello ihnp4!picuxa!gp
edg@pbhyg.UUCP (Elizabeth D. Gottlieb) (03/03/88)
Run a parrot for president? Isn't that what they usually are? Libby Gottlieb
boz@eleazar.Dartmouth.EDU (John Boswell) (03/04/88)
Greg Pasquariello ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^----- I don't know who this dude is, but he is a RUDE SOB. I suggest everyone do as I have done, and set up their newsreader to IGNORE ANYTHING from this guy. -Just my $0.02 boz.
grazier@fmsrl7.UUCP (Kevin Grazier) (03/09/88)
In article <495@picuxa.UUCP> gp@picuxa.UUCP (Greg Pasquariello X1190) writes: ]In article <4369@aw.sei.cmu.edu>, ceb@sei.cmu.edu (Carolyn Bissell) writes: ]> time and energy in establishing our friendship and communication. When ]> he says 'hi there' or 'water' or 'scratch' or 'window' or 'pretty good, ]> huh?' he knows exactly what he means and uses the words accordingly. ] < Followed by miscellaneous ramblings of how her bird emotes > ] ]Is this for real? Can it be that parrots can not only speak like humans ]but ALSO _UNDERSTAND_ WHAT THEY ARE SAYING!!! Maybe we can send a parrot ]to the moon, not as a test animal, but as an astronaut! Hell, maybe he can ]run for President!! Before you get TOO sarcastic, note that researchers at the University of Wisconsin are teaching an African Grey ENGLISH. They aren't teaching it mere mimicry. They'll show the bird a picture of a square and a picture of a triangle and ask how they're different. The bird will respond with "shape." They'll then show the bird a red circle and a blue circle and ask how they're different. The bird will respond with "color." All the research done so far, seems to indicate that this bird understands what it is saying. There were a lot more examples of the bird's feats in the article, but I don't remember them all. The concept of intelligence is getting greyer and greyer as we delve into it. I find it very egocentric to believe that human beings are the only creatures who have a form of sonic communication -- a form which is so complex that other creatures can't master some of its basics. I also see no reason why the original poster couldn't have had a such a rapport with her bird. -- Kevin R. Grazier Mustang GT: There is no substitute. Ford Motor Company Engineering Computer Center uucp: {philabs | pyramid | ihnp4!mibte | terminus} !fmsrl7!grazier VOICE: (313) 739-7553 (home) (313) 337-1625 (work)