[rec.birds] More on Hookbills

ls1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Leonard John Schultz) (10/13/88)

   A Molluccan Cockatoo, Shiva, is the most gorgeous, curious, and downright
jealous bird.  He requires tons of affection, and it is all worth it.  Everyone
knows what a basic cockatoo is. They are white birds about a foot tall with a
yellow crown that goes high in the air when excited.  They starred on such
shows as Beretta.  A Molluccan Cockatoo is not pure white, but is an
off-pinkish-orangish-white, and the crown is a bright salmon (rustish) color.
I leave him (her?) loose constantly when I am home, so he has the freedom to
roam the house or come seeking attention.  Shiva is very good about dumping
only on his perch, although it took quite a bit of time to accomplish this
feat.  He is a wild bird from Australia and knows incredible jungle calls and
mating songs, which really livens up the house.  Because he was taken from the
jungle as an adult bird, it took almost a year to get him COMPLETELY tame.
   As for the yet to arrive Grey-Cheeked Parakeet, it is in fact a miniature
parrot.  But its price ($190) is definitely affordable.  They can learn to
talk, and they can do it very well.  As hand fed babies, they will cuddle up
with any nearby human.  I only hope that Shiva won't become jealous of the
parakeet and attack it.  I would like for them to become good friends and keep
each other company while I am away.
   Does anyone else have any birds they would like to talk about?  If so, post
on this bboard.  Let's get some lively conversation going!!!

ls1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Leonard John Schultz) (10/13/88)

> Did you get your cockatoo in PA then?  It is illegal to buy/sell imported
>birds in NY, and I'm so used to it I forget this doesn't necessarily
>apply.  I hope the parakeet and the cockatoo get along--the only thing
>I've ever heard about mixing birds was that peach-faced lovebirds can
>terrorize macaws.  Do you suppose you could get jealousy problems?  When
>I talk to Tangier, Sepia gets jealous--even though neither bird is tame
>(lovebirds are hard to tame unless you get them very young.)  I've seen
>the parakeets for sale, at more like $200, but they are hand-raised.
>That is a bit more than I can justify, poor grad student that I am.  Here's
>a question though--how did you "toilet-train" your bird?!  I did not
>know that could be done!
>I'm not posting to the news group because I've never seen notes having to
>do with live-in birds before--all bird-watching.  Rec.pets has occasional
>postings on pet birds, but they have all been canaries and budgies, and
>don't seem to attract much interest.  Hope some more parrots turn up though-
>they are so much fun to talk about!
  --Ruth Miller

Stick training is just a slow, repetitive process.  At first, Shiva would
always fly to this one chair and plop.  Every time he did that, I would yell at
him and make him fly back to his perch.  I would then congratulate him and tell
him GOOOOOOOOOD BIRDIE (he loves that) and eventually he would fly to his perch
every time he needed to defacate. Nothin' to it.
   How much did you pay for your Fischer's lovebirds?  I thought they would be
in the $100-200 range.  The Grey-Cheeks are definitely worth the price since
they are so damned affectionate, especially compared to lovebirds who just love
each other.  I am looking for some Peach-faced Lutino Lovebirds.  I haven't
been able to find any.  Anyone seen some?


                   Len Schultz

bamford@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Harold E. Bamford) (10/15/88)

OK, I'll bite!  I had (note past tense) an adult, wild caught African
Grey Congo.  Extremely even tempered: he hated everybody.  He would howl
loudly for upwards of 1/2 hour when somebody approached him.  He would
bite if a hand was put in his cage.  Etc, etc.  Then I sold him to a
breeder with experience with wild birds and bought a BABY African Grey
Congo.

What a difference!  This baby bird is very friendly.  He likes to sit on
my shoulder and purr.  Just like a cat.  He crawls all over me (or
anybody that gives him some cheese) and plays with my hair and ears.  He
chirps, and cheeps.  When very excited, he grunts as though he could
hardly stand the excitement.  Hilarious sound.  He also has a gurgling
series of chirps that sounds exactly like "Cousin Itt" from the TV show,
"The Addams Family".

Merlin also is very much the omnivore -- no wimpy vegetarian diet for
him! (Please, no flames from vegetarians).  He devours:

	Beef
	Lamb
	Chicken
	Scallops
	Shrimp

He also "inhales" cheese, rice, bread, carrot, grapes, broccoli,
radishes, cucumbers, those long green hot peppers, safflower seeds,
etc.   But he WON'T eat Parrot Pellets.

OK, let's hear about YOUR parrot.

harolds1@ihlpa.ATT.COM (Schessler) (10/15/88)

>    A Molluccan Cockatoo, Shiva, is the most gorgeous, curious, and downright
  .
  .

>   He is a wild bird from Australia 

--
-- I wish people where aware about buying wild birds -- for every one that makes
-- it to this country, 100's die in trans. US law prohibits importation of many,
-- but apparently not all. It is up to all of us to stop the crimes against these
-- beautiful creatures. In the Chicago suburbs this past year, a guy was arrested
-- for trading in large birds.
-- 
-- But please - I ask for compassion!

larrabee@decwrl.dec.com (Tracy Larrabee) (10/15/88)

In article <9921@ihlpa.ATT.COM> harolds1@ihlpa.ATT.COM (Schessler) writes:
>>    A Molluccan Cockatoo, Shiva, is the most gorgeous, curious, and downright
>>   He is a wild bird from Australia 
>

Molluccans do not come from Australia, which is good, because owning a bird
that you know was once living loose in Australia is a Felony.  There are
*no* birds legally imported to the U.S. from Australia.  Moluccans come
from the Pacific islands, but fortunately they breed well in captivity.  Many
Molluccans imported to this country as "wild caught" are just raised 
in foreign aviaries without the kind of personal attention that a hand
fed bird requires.  I personally believe that the only people who should
own wild-caught birds are breeders and that all others should buy only
domestic birds.  

ls1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Leonard John Schultz) (10/16/88)

Molluccan cockatoos are from the Molluccan Islands in the South Pacific
relatively close to Australia, where Greater and Lesser Cockatoos are found.
And there was a limited amount of birds exported recently (I'm not sure what
the deal is now).  I do believe that many people cannot handle the
responsibility and frustrations of owning a wild bird.  It probably would do
some good to limit sales to experienced aviculturalists (don't hold me to this).

ls1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Leonard John Schultz) (10/16/88)

>Then I sold him to a breeder with experience with wild birds and bought a BABY
African Grey
>Congo.

Nice bird.  The African Greys have an extraordinary ability to reproduce and
sound.  My brother works for an aviary and their Grey will yell at him when he
goes into the cabinets, "hey, get out of there".  He will call the dog, "Lucky,
Lucky, come here boy, woof, ha, ha".  He's got an incredible laugh.  He'll make
the phone ring and then yell, "answer the phone".  He's basically got an
incredible vocabulary.  I don't know how long they worked with him to develop
it, but all birds tend to pick things up more quickly after the first word they
learn.

jla@inuxd.UUCP (Joyce Andrews) (10/16/88)

> Nice bird.  The African Greys have an extraordinary ability to reproduce and
> sound.  My brother works for an aviary and their Grey will yell at him when he
> 

I'm told that the African Greys are the best talkers of all.
Here in the Florida Keys, just about everyone has a shoulder full
of bird droppings.  There aren't many dogs around, but so many
people live on boats, and hookbills are good pets for boats.

The consensus is that if you want a bird to love to be stroked
and handled, get a cockatoo or cockatiel.  If you want one that 
talks a blue streak, get an African Grey or one of the Amazons.

And here is a funny story...My husband and I were stranded on US
1 (a long story involving one of our irresponsible teenagers),
and were looking for a phone to call for help.  My husband (Fred)
started walking south, and I started north.  Within a few feet, I
spied a public phone, so I hollered "Fred" several times to stop
him from walking the other way.  From behind a privacy fence, a
hookbill started yelling "Fred" with great enthusiasm.  I was
amazed at the bird's ability to pick that up, and have told the
story many times.  A year later I got to meet the bird...a
scarlet macaw named Fred.  And that's the only word he says.

Another funny story.  Hookbills often know WHEN to say something,
because they have heard sounds in sequence.  For instance, my
blue-front Amazon will sing the second line of a song she knows if
I sing the first.   Or she'll tell the dog to shut up when he
barks.  She doesn't know what she is saying...she is just
completing the pattern.  At a local dive shop, the employees have
said to the resident blue macaw..."Polly want a cracker?  Stick
the cracker up your a**."  Now, everytime a tourist looks at the
macaw sitting there under the Tiki roof and says "Polly want a
cracker?" the bird responds with the second line.    

And one more.  Fred (a strict father) told 13-year-old Chris to
clean his room.  As Chris started down the hall, the bird
BACKTALKED Fred in Chris' voice, saying the things Chris has
probably said after Fred left the room.  If I hadn't been there
to tell Fred it was the bird, Chris' name would be Mud instead of
Chris.  The bird amazes me with her ability to not only say words
but to mimic our voices.  She talks like Chris, she bitches like
Chris' twin sister, and she laughs and sings like me.  She
doesn't mimic the older kids, probably because they aren't home
as much.  Amazing bird.  We are planning an aviary, too...but
here in paradise all we have to do it screen in our balcony.
Then they will have not only plenty of flying area, but a view of
the ocean.  I am planning on getting her a mate, I guess.  She's
only two, and was a cruelty case.  She deserves some happiness.
 

-- 
	Joyce Andrews King                      
	ihnp4!inuxd!jla
	AT&T, Indianapolis
(This message brought to you from the Florida Keys via the
miracle of modern communications.)

mep@ihlpg.ATT.COM (Pasternak) (10/17/88)

In article <1271@inuxd.UUCP> jla@inuxd.UUCP (Joyce Andrews) writes:
>> Nice bird.  The African Greys have an extraordinary ability to reproduce and
>> sound.  My brother works for an aviary and their Grey will yell at him when he
>> 
>
>
>The consensus is that if you want a bird to love to be stroked
>and handled, get a cockatoo or cockatiel.  If you want one that 
>talks a blue streak, get an African Grey or one of the Amazons.
>

I don't know about the talking aspect of the birds -- but whether a bird
wants to be stroked & cuddled depends on how they were raised (hand-fed or
otherwise), not so much on the exact type of bird.  I have a miligold (hybrid
between blue & gold and military) macaw who's been hand fed and she's the
friendliest bird you could imagine.  One of her favorite activities is 
tucking her head head under my chin & being petted and cuddled -- she's in heaven!!
She's also friendly to other people ... gladly sitting on their
shoulders, letting them pet her, etc.

It also seems like there are different ways of hand-feeding baby
birds: 1) hand-feed, cuddle, pet and talk to them and 2) hand-feed them --
the first method is what's been done with the friendly birds I know of & works great!
The second method doesn't produce as friendly a bird -- a couple months ago
I saw some baby african greys for sale who had apparently been raised
with the 2nd method:  no where near as friendly as ones who'd been
raised with method #1.

miller@galaxy.ee.rochester.edu (Ruth Miller) (10/17/88)

 Well, it had to come.  Talking about cage birds in a group that likes
to watch wild ones had to draw flames.  I can't argue either side--I feel
guilty keeping our two in cages but I can't let them out when we're not
home or they'd find some way to kill themselves.  Should we have them?
Well, they're not wild-caught--lovebirds breed so easily there's no need
to go to Africa to get some--they were raised in the US (Florida and CA)
to be sold as pets.  So were your cats/dogs etc.--and what do they do
all day when you're not home?  To get a bit philosophical, I think we
humans have a responsibility to the other creatures on this planet, just 
because we are capable of destroying or saving all of them.  (Did you
know that the group that includes rhinos, elephants, tapirs and horses 
has been "naturally" (w/o benefit of humans) going extinct for a while now?)
That responsibility includes the "right" to control other creatures--as
a king has a right to control his subjects--FOR THEIR OWN GOOD!  That
doesn't necessarily answer the question whether we should domesticate
creatures, but unless you who are cross with us who keep birds are all
vegetarians I can't promise to listen.

There's another question, though--keeping wild-caught birds who may be
in danger in their own habitats, whether from humans or other threats.
I would say personally that if you feel you are "saving" these birds,
you should be trying your utmost to breed them--find other people nearby
who own birds you could pair up.  Otherwise, though your own bird may
live a long and fairly happy life you have done nothing but make the
threatening situation worse for the species by making a market for
someone to capture birds who would otherwise increase their population.
'Nuff said.
  --Ruth Miller

chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (10/18/88)

> Well, it had to come.  Talking about cage birds in a group that likes
>to watch wild ones had to draw flames.

No, it didn't have to happen, if people were willing to be tolerant of view
other than their own. But that's a different flame.

There are a couple of problems with the anti-caged-pet flame:

o it ignores the fact that in many situations, most of the reduction in 
	numbers is by loss of habitat rather than wild-catching. It also
	ignores the fact that in many cases, the only *hope* for the future
	of the species is in captive breeding programs. Many birds, like the
	Hyacinth, are likely to be extinct in the wild in the next 20 years
	unless something happens -- and the people who are keeping the breed
	alive are the people being flamed here. The captive breeding
	programs for many birds relies heavily on private breeders rather
	than govermental agencies and zoos (would you want *your* government
	in charge of keeping a species alive? And having to justify the
	expense every year?)

o It ignores the fact that in some areas (Australia, for instance) many 
	of the birds we're talking about are slaughtered in the thousands
	every year. Caught and killed.

	The rose-breasted cockatoo, for instance. $2500 of wonderful,
	burbly joy in America. In Australia, flocks rose-breasted are
	considered vermin and pests (I don't see why: a couple of thousand
	cockatoos eating your wheat field should make a farmer happy!) and
	so they are trapped and shot and destroyed. There's an active
	campaign going on in Australia to remove the bird ban so that at
	least SOME of the birds could be live-caught and exported rather
	than simply slaughtered. Right now, they all die. The pet trade
	can give some of them an opportunity to survive. 

What's better? A breed that is alive but captive or one that's extinct? 

What's better? A live, wild-caught pet bird or a dead bird?

Some birds don't make the transit and die. Some birds are mistreated and
die in captivity. 

Some birds make the transition and flourish. My umbrella, for instance.
Maybe she'd be happier in the jungle somewhere, eating bananas. Maybe she'd
be dead. You never know. What I *do* know is that she's very happy where she
is. I'm very happy that she's there. To me, that's a win-win situation, and
if you don't like the idea of a bird in a cage, then don't own one. But
don't make moralistic judgements on others. Especially when you don't have
the facts straight to start with.

(by the way, are you sure you're not building a bird population that's
 dependent on your seed for survival? What's going to happen to them 
 if you move or stop feeding them? And shouldn't you be offering a more
 balanced diet than just sunflower seeds?

 It's possible, you know, to build just as horrible a cage outside as in.
 If the birds don't migrate because of your food, then lose their food
 source and starve, the only difference between the dead bird in the cage
 and the dead bird outside is that you don't see (and think about) the dead
 bird outside.

 Which is, of course, a piece of rhetoric. Doesn't mean I agree with it...)
Chuq Von Rospach			chuq@sun.COM		Delphi: CHUQ
Editor/Publisher, OtherRealms