pratt@paul.rutgers.edu (Lorien Y. Pratt) (10/15/88)
>My cockatoo absolutely hates anyone outside his few friends. But that is >expected, since he was caught as a wild adult. I have seen hand fed babies >going for $2400 and being as friendly as can be to the butcher. But that's >beyond my price range now. Anyway, I enjoy his jungle calls, which a hand fed >lacks. I hate to throw cold water on this discussion, because it sounds like you all love your birds and take good care of them, but I used to keep pet birds, too, until I realized that what I loved about them was their beautiful flight and how I dreamed of having an aviary of my own, and I realized that what I was loving was birds in their natural state! Then I heard about how so many birds die for each one that makes it to a pet store, and how more and more species become endangered every year, and how the rain forests are dwindling at an alarming rate, and I just can't justify the pleasure I get from seeing birds up close by their suffering. I got this poem from ``Lifeline for Wildlife", inc, in Stony Point, NY: How would you like to live in a cage that was just about ten feet square, with no toys to play with and nothing to do -- just you and a bed and a chair? Oh, sure you'd be fed (the same thing each day) you'd have water (unless they forgot) and since you would never be going outside you wouldn't get cold, or too hot. But oh, you'd be lonely just sitting alone with no one to talk to all day. You'd remember the trees, and the grass and the breeze, the places where you used to play. You'd remember your friends, you'd remember the sky, and games and strawberries and sun, and you'd know you could never go skating again or go swimming, or ride bikes, or run. You'd get mad and scream and throw things around; you'd kick and you'd pound on the wall, and your owners would scold you, and say to themselves, "He isn't a nice pet at all!" The more you got mad, the less they would like you, the less they'd remember to care about if you had water or if you got fed or if you were lonely in there. And then you would know what it's like to be kept as a pet when you're meant to be free, and you'd listen when wild things are trying to say "Please don't make a pet out of me". --Beverly Armstrong My solution has been to have a *whole flock* of pet birds: blue ones and red ones and yellow ones, right outside the livingroom. I have my own aviary: the nature preserve behind my apartment. I feed them with sunflower seeds, and I know that I'm doing my part to help birds out with what they really want: a natural environment, and enough food to eat. Now if they don't build condos over the preserve, I'll be all set.... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Lorien Y. Pratt Computer Science Department pratt@paul.rutgers.edu Rutgers University Busch Campus (201) 932-4634 Piscataway, NJ 08854
ls1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Leonard John Schultz) (10/16/88)
>Then I heard about how so many birds die for each one that makes it >to a pet store, and how more and more species become endangered every year, >and how the rain forests are dwindling at an alarming rate, and I just >can't justify the pleasure I get from seeing birds up close by their >suffering. Ya, ya, great. But take a wild guess as to how many birds die in the wild due to natural selection (diseases, predators, hunters). Millions. As a matter of fact, some formerly endangered species, such as some of the miniature macaws, were saved due to the successful breeding and caring of private aviaries. I agree that the rain forests are dwindling, but that isn't due to billions of people snatching wild birds. It is due to the lumber companies and real estate developers that think forests will last forever. Wild cockatoos in Australia are abundant in flocks of hundreds of thousands. They are damaging the farmers' crops. The farmers are shooting them, legally. Now you can't blame that on the American bird owner. Australia has a very small export rate of these birds, and that is very responsible. It keeps the value of the birds high (people tend to take better care of a bigger investment), and keeps avian diseases at a minimum. >How would you like to live in a cage >that was just about ten feet square, >with no toys to play with and nothing to do -- >just you and a bed and a chair? > etc. My bird is loose in the house, almost constantly. He's got plenty of toys to keep him busy destroying and he's got people constantly giving him love and attention. He loves being petted, scratched, fed, fussed over, and he generally loves life. >My solution has been to have a *whole flock* of pet birds: blue ones >and red ones and yellow ones, right outside the livingroom. I have my >own aviary: the nature preserve behind my apartment. I feed them with >sunflower seeds, and I know that I'm doing my part to help birds out >with what they really want: a natural environment, and enough food to >eat. Now if they don't build condos over the preserve, I'll be all >set.... That's the only intelligent thing you've said. I am definitely going to build a house in the boonies so I can watch all this wildlife in my backyard, my own outdoor aviary. But I will also have an indoor aviary for those that cannot handle the cold. For those endangered species from all over the globe that I can help survive. And for people who would like to share some love and affection with a young avian who can definitely use it.
news@encore.UUCP (Newsboy) (10/17/88)
survive through captive breeding efforts. Yes, there are deaths
attributable to the bird capture/distribution system. However, a vast
majority of these losses are caused by illegal operations - smuggling
and trapping.
It is an unfortunate fact that the hookbills that are endangered are
almost exclusively endangered because of loss of habitat rather than
the predations of those who trap birds for "the trade." Do not
construe this to be an endorsement of the current world system in bird
trading, which does need to be improved through international efforts
at control.
What can you do? Buy a captive-born bird. This supports breeders, who
have already saved some species from extinction. (Also, the bird will
be much tamer/happier than the typical wild-caught bird.) Do NOT
criticize those who keep imported birds. Most of the imported birds
(especially those imported legally) are not endangered, but their
habitat is diminishing in the wilds, and their removal does not in
itself adversely impact wild populations. Support responsible
legislation. I have to stress _responsible_ here; a recent importation
law supported by the US SPCA regarding the size and configuration of
shipping cages for transport of birds causes increased injury and
death to transported birds than the cages that were normally being
used. Finally, join a responsible birding organization. I can
recommend the Massachusetts SPCA, the Massachusetts and National
Audubon Associations, and the American Federation of Aviculture. There
are others, of course.
Why deny yourself the companionship and enhanced appreciation of these
wonderful and intelligent birds? Just take responsibility for your
actions. If you just want a pet, don't get an endangered bird; leave
them for breeders.
-lar__
From: kaufman@maxzilla.Encore.COM (Lar Kaufman)
Path: maxzilla!kaufman
/ \ disclaimer: _cave_canem_ Lar Kaufman
/" (_) Fidonet: 1:322/470@508-534-1842
/ \ Internet: kaufman@multimax.arpa
Q_,') \ UUCP: {bu-cs,decvax,necntc,linus,talcott}!encore!kaufman jtb901@leah.Albany.Edu (Jim) (10/17/88)
In article <Oct.14.17.51.19.1988.22821@paul.rutgers.edu>, pratt@paul.rutgers.edu (Lorien Y. Pratt) writes: > > I hate to throw cold water on this discussion, because it sounds like you > all love your birds and take good care of them, but I used to keep pet > birds, too, until I realized that what I loved about them was their beautiful > flight and how I dreamed of having an aviary of my own, and I realized that > what I was loving was birds in their natural state! Okay, I understand your point, but my Cockatiel, at least, is free to fly wherever he pleases. I got a cage with a removable top and the top is only on when I'm transporting the bird outside. -- | BITNET: jtb901@albny1vx | "I can see the future, | | jtb901@albnyvm1 | and it's a place about 70 miles | | INTERNET: jtb901@leah.albany.edu | west of here." | | | -Laurie Anderson |
pratt@zztop.rutgers.edu (Lorien Y. Pratt) (10/18/88)
lar says: >What can you do? Buy a captive-born bird. This supports breeders, who >have already saved some species from extinction. (Also, the bird will >be much tamer/happier than the typical wild-caught bird.) As I said in my original posting, I love birds and would like to keep an aviary, but had decided against the idea. This comment might give me a way to have that aviary without guilt. Can you post more information on breeders who save birds from extinction and how I can buy a bird from them so as to support their cause? If I buy an African Gray from my local Doktor Pets, am I hurting or harming the situation? Where do they get their birds from? >Support responsible >legislation. I have to stress _responsible_ here; a recent importation >law supported by the US SPCA regarding the size and configuration of >shipping cages for transport of birds causes increased injury and >death to transported birds than the cages that were normally being Again, an excellent comment, and on my part a request for information: can you tell us who to write to/what to do? >Why deny yourself the companionship and enhanced appreciation of these >wonderful and intelligent birds? Just take responsibility for your >actions. If you just want a pet, don't get an endangered bird; leave >them for breeders. Sounds like very sound advice, as long as it's really implementable! --Lori -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Lorien Y. Pratt Computer Science Department pratt@paul.rutgers.edu Rutgers University Busch Campus (201) 932-4634 Piscataway, NJ 08854
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (10/18/88)
> This comment might give me > a way to have that aviary without guilt. Problem #1. Before you can be a successful breeder of endangered species, you really need to be a successful breeder and birdkeeper. The *last* thing you want to do is experiment on birds that might not get a second chance. And before you can be a successful breeder, you have to keep birds and learn how to take care of them. You don't *start* by breeding hyacinths, you work up to it. If your primary purpose in life is to save birds by breeding them rather than enjoying birds and using your skills to help them, you're coming at it wrong and are likely to fail -- and cause harm to the birds you're trying to save. you'd be *much* better off to volunteer your time to the local zoological society or zoo and help the experts. > If I buy an African Gray from my local > Doktor Pets, am I hurting or harming the situation? Where do they get their > birds from? Anyone who buys *ANYTHING* from Docktor Pets is contributing to one of the worst offenders in the Puppy Mill industry. (the only folks I know of who are worse than Docktor are the hypocrites at the AKC who continue to assign papers to these dogs, knowing full well they're raised under inhumane and (in many cases) unclean conditions where the parentage is, frankly, suspect). You think things are bad in the bird world, go take a close look at the places that breed dogs for Docktor and other chain pet stores. Go take a *close* look at the quality of the dog you get, too, and it's health. We'll ignore the obvious problems with them being within breed standard in many cases. On top of that, Docktor Pet Center's care of their animals is horrid. I've yet to see one where the bird areas were clean, or even close to it. Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ Editor/Publisher, OtherRealms
stewartw@neptune.UUCP (Stewart Winter ) (10/20/88)
Someone Said ... >>Then I heard about how so many birds die for each one that makes it >>to a pet store, and how more and more species become endangered every year, >Ya, ya, great. But take a wild guess as to how many birds die in the wild du >to natural selection (diseases, predators, hunters). Millions. As a matter of >fact, some formerly endangered species, such as some of the miniature macaws, >were saved due to the successful breeding and caring of private aviaries. I >agree that the rain forests are dwindling, but that isn't due to billions of >people snatching wild birds. It is due to the lumber companies and real estate >developers that think forests will last forever. Wild cockatoos in Australia >are abundant in flocks of hundreds of thousands. They are damaging the >farmers' crops. The farmers are shooting them, legally. Now you can't blame >that on the American bird owner. Australia has a very small export rate of >these birds, and that is very responsible. It keeps the value of the birds >high (people tend to take better care of a bigger investment), and keeps avian >diseases at a minimum. Be very careful how you word things. I can see that you didn't mean to say it, but your first few sentences almost implies that smuggling is OK. SMUGGLING OF BIRDS IS A TERRIBLE THING AND SHOULD NEVER BE CONDONED. The birds suffer greatly in transit and less than 5% usually survive the ordeal. The birds that are smuggled are not going into preservation. They are in fact smuggled frequently as compensation in drug trafficing. I don't believe that the drug world's motives are too noble. Now, about Australia's birds. Many cockatoos (such as Major Mitchell's) are endangered (gravely). As such they are placed on the CITES 1 list to which countries such as the US and Canada have agreed that these animals should not be removed from their native habitat except in exceptional circumstances. Now Australia does have a large number of rare birds and birds which have come back from the brink of extinction. I can see where a very black and white law which prohibits exportation of flora and fauna is easier to manage than one which has many rules and exceptions. Many cockatoos are no longer that rare there, but this business of farmers killing them left, right and centre has been greatly exaggirated (I believe) by the American bird magazines. There are two sides to every story and I think we are only looking at one of them. The other thing that you should look at is the rules that North American countries rules for exportation of its wildlife are also quite strict. We are not pleased to hear about Arabs taking Peregrine Falcons from the wilds or even rare reptiles from our swamps. Do the Australians want to colletct our wild life? I hope that the countries of the world can find some kind of compromise which will allow species to end up in the hands of serious breeders because they may provide the best avenue of preservation. In the mean time, I would ask that every person interested in birds adopt the harshest stance possible against smuggling. If the price looks too good to be true, it just might be. Stewart Winter PS Still looking for info on Macaw (blue and gold) breeding patterns as far as temperature, humidity, etc. go. -- Stewart Winter Cognos Incorporated P.O. Box 9707 VOICE: (613) 738-1440 FAX: (613) 738-0002 3755 Riverside Dr. UUCP: uunet!cognos!neptune!stewartw Ottawa, Ontario "The guy with the dogs!" CANADA K1G 3Z4
kaufman@encore.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) (10/21/88)
I would urge the readers of rec.birds to remain united, rather than
breaking into separate groups for bird watching and bird keeping. Any
real separation in readership comes from misunderstandings which can
only be resolved by sharing our thoughts. So, to address the cusp of
Lori's dilemma:
You *can* have pet birds without adverse impact on wild bird
populations. What you want is a bird that was hatched in this country.
This is how to tell what kind of bird you are getting:
* A circular cross-section ring around a leg, with numerals
engraved, is the ring placed on the bird by US Customs at the
quarentine station. (All imported birds are kept in quarentine
for 30 days to assure that certain diseases are not brought
into the country.) This means the bird was imported legally.
I believe it is illegal to counterfeit these rings. Most chain
one of these rings on the bird's leg. It is a crimp-type ring
of what appears to be stainless steel. It is very hard to
remove without a special tool or a file (and a cooperative bird).
* Reputable breeders place a seamless metal ring on the leg of a
native-born baby bird. This can only be done within a few days
of hatching and is thus pretty good proof that the bird is "born
in the USA." Look for this when you buy a bird. Larger bird
breeding facilities will be able to positively identify the date
of birth and possibly the lineage of a bird by a unique serial
number on the band. Others use plain bands, particularly for the
less-expensive birds. (Numbered, seamless bands are not cheap;
they are produced in low volume and in sizes specifically designed
to fit certain species.)
* Other birds may have crimped metal or plastic bands on them. These
bands are useful to breeders who need to track bloodlines and such
in an aviary. (Gee, should I let that couple pair off, or are they
too closely related?...) These bands are not convincing evidence
that a bird was native-born. (I mean hatched, of course, but...)
There is a type of plastic seamless band that can be stretched and
placed on a bird's leg, where it shrinks back to original size.
There is no reliable way to prove "citizenship" with a plastic
band. However, these bands have legitimate uses if accompanied with
other documentation as evidence of legitimacy (see following).
* Bandless birds are suspect, but not necessarily illegal. In fact,
probably only a minority of inexpensive bandless birds are illegal.
(Because of the value of rare and endangered species, legit birds
are almost always provided with as positive means of identification
as possible.) Bands are often removed by an owner, particularly in
a free-flight environment. The reason is that the bird can snag the
legband and injure or kill itself. This is particularly true with
the US Customs band, which often has a small gap (not a tightly
closed ring). Occasionally, a breeder or US Customs makes a
mistake, and installs a ring that is too small for the growing
bird, and the ring has to be removed for the bird's health. This
should be done by a veterinarian who should provide an affidavit
affirming that band "number 5555555" was removed from a "crested
blue-eyed featherduster" on such-and-such a date. The owner should
keep the affidavit _and_ the remnants of the ring as evidence. If
you want to buy a bird with these evidences, you should be
reassured if the veterinary records match the affidavit. This will
serve as legal proof, if any is needed. Same procedure for a
seamless banded bird, native born. Frequently these birds are
rebanded with a serial numbered band for convenient cross-reference
and identification; the veterinarian's affidavit should cite the
number on the replacement band if one is put on.
* Don't buy a bird that was "hatched in our bird farms in Singapore"
or the Philipines, or whatever. There may be honest operations
that do that, but such businesses are notorious for being a
laundering operation for smuggled birds.
The best place to buy a bird is directly from the breeder. In some
places (like "The Scarlet Macaw" in Houston) the birds are bred in the
actual storefront. You can walk right in and watch newly hatched baby
birds being hand fed! Aside from the better moral position of buying
domestically hatched birds, the birds will simply make better pets if
they are raised by hand, or at least exposed to much human interaction
in their early days. There is a high risk of dissatisfied buyer and
bird if you purchase an imported bird. It takes a lot more work to
accomodate yourself to the developed quirks of the wild-hatched bird's
personality (and hookbills particularly have strong individual
personality) and visa-versa. The hand-raised bird is most expensive,
but worth it, if you want a pet. (The large parrots, such as macaws
and amazons, have a life expectancy of around 75 years. You are buying
yourself a life-long companion. And they live on birdfeed! :-) )
Finding a "local" breeder can be tough. The easiest way is to get an
issue of either Bird Talk or Cage Bird magazine and look in the ads.
In general, avoid chain stores. If you go to look at, and handle,
birds from more than one location when shopping around, scrub
thoroughly before handling the next bird. Just ask the breeder for
disinfectant soap. He/she will have some, and be grateful for your
consideration.
Next, the issue of organizations that work for bird conservation
through domestic breeding and care of threatened/endangered species:
I will cover that in a separate posting - coming right up. This
posting is already long enough.
--
Lar Kaufman <= my opinions
kaufman@multimax.arpa
{bu-cs,decvax,necntc,talcott}!encore!kaufman
Fidonet: 1:322/470@508-534-1842kaufman@encore.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) (10/21/88)
Lori,
I understand the anxiety you have about contributing to the loss of
species through keeping rare birds. Actually, a much greater threat is
simply the rate of consumption of the world's resourses that we all
engage in. (Underhanded insinuation follows - no offense intended.)
Got nice mahogany furniture? Paneling? Eat at fast food places? Drink
imported orange juice? Bananas... whatever? The real hazards for bird
populations are that we want to use their habitat for other purposes.
There are simply too many people in the world. (Note that I am not
claiming that all these people cannot be fed, or whatever (yet) but if
we continue to increase our population, it will be at the cost of
other species. A typical consumer from a high-tech country causes much
more damage than a subsistance slash-and-burn farmer in South America;
the damage is just less directly evident. But I digress.
Finding out the information you want is easier than most people
suspect, Lori. All of the organizations that I am about to list came
from a current issue of Bird Talk magazine. Bird Talk isn't even
particularly oriented toward bird breeding, as is Cage Bird magazine,
for example. This is not even close to being an exhaustive listing,
but it will suffice to generate a substantial posting. Here we go...
American Federation of Aviculture
P.O. Box 1568 B
Redondo Beach, CA 90278
- Umbrella organization sponsoring avian medical research,
conservation programs for endangered species, and conferences
on topics of bird breeding and avian health. Dues are $20/yr
and include a very fine bi-monthly magazine. Recently, this
organization advised the state of California in drafting a
reasonable bill to control the sale or trade of imported,
captured wild birds. This bill is pending (AB3397) and provides
for an advisory panel including the California Department of
Fish and Game, avicultural organizations, wildlife conservation
groups, and pet dealers. Was active in putting together the
joint citizen-government coalition that reestablished the only
wild population of (native species) parrots in the U.S. (see
next). Phone 213-372-2988.
Wildlife Preservation Trust
34th St. and Girard Avenue
Philadelphia, PA 19104
- "dedicated to research captive breeding, and release of
captive-bred birds in the wilds." Worked with U.S. Govt.
on a program which successfully reestablished thickbilled parrots
in the southern mountains of Arizona, where they had been
eliminated by early hunters (good eating, as their diet is pine
nuts). This program brought together parrots owned in the US as
pets and birds that had been confiscated by US Customs (smuggled
from Mexico). A successful release has been made and I think
there are now two small flocks (~40 birds) in the wilds. Captive
breeding continues by private individuals and the US govt.
Other breeding successes sponsered by this group from 1985-87
include Bahaman amazon parrots, white-eared pheasants, pink
pigeons, Palawan peacock pheasants, and Rothschild's mynahs.
Windy City Budgerigar Association
644 Brantwood,
Elk Grove, IL 60007
- Budgerigar breeding (what most US citizens call "parakeets")
MCBA Adoption Program
5717 111th Avenue N.
Champlain MN 55317
- A bird adoption program jointly sponsored by the Minnesota
Zoological Gardens and the Minnesota Cage Bird Association.
This group finds homes for unwanted birds. Prospective
owners are screened. An attempt is made to place rare birds
with successful, humane breeders. They will send you the
guidelines for adoption on request.
National Parrot Association
8 N. Hoffman Lane
Hauppauge NY 11788
- Association of parrot owners/breeders.
The Basic Foundation
P.O. Box 47012
St. Petersburg, FL 33743
- Dedicated to conservation efforts of diverse types, mostly
dealing with rainforest preservation, flora and fauna.
Phone 813-526-9562
Amazona Society
P.O. Box 73547
Puyallup WA 98373
- Dedicated to successful breeding of parrots of species Amazona.
Currently working with the AFA to conduct a census of _Amazona_
_viridigenalis_ (green-cheeked amazon, red-crowned amazon,
Mexican redheaded amazon) for the purpose of establishing a
coordinated captive breeding program. The species was recently
classified as endangered. Breeders reported 53 pairs in
captivity, with 36 chicks hatched this year. Many others are
pets; this program hopes to get a number of them enrolled in a
breeding program to build a permanent captive breeding stock
and to restock birds in the wilds of Mexico and Central America.
San Francisco SPCA
2500 16th St.
San Francisco, CA 94103
- Sally Blanchard conducts seminars on bird care on the second
Sunday of each month. Call 415-554-3000 for more information.
I have information on programs in avian research at several
universities, as well. Specifically, the University of Georgia College
of Veterinary Medicine, the Univ. of Cal., Davis, Department of Avian
Sciences, North Carolina State University School of Veterinary
Medicine, and the Schubot Exotic Bird Health Center of Texas A&M
University. If you want more info on these programs check with me if
you cannot find out for yourself.
Remember, I found all these resources in only one issue of Bird Talk
Magazine (which I am unaffiliated with, except as a subscriber). I
haven't even mentioned other programs I know to be ongoing in England
and the Carribean.
So, Lori, get yourself a charming life-long companion (a Lorikeet,
maybe?), or get a pair and breed your own. You won't regret it. And
you won't be contributing to the loss of wild birds, if you follow the
guidelines I mentioned in the previous posting for buying
domestic-bred birds. Check out some reputable breeders. You will be
impressed with the loving care these birds get, and you will also
discover that almost all bird breeders are conservationists.
(Large-scale breeding is hard work, risky, and not all that
profitable. People breed birds because they love them, not to get
rich.)
-lar
It's hard to tell the purpose of a bird;
for relevance it does not seem to try.
No line can trace, no flute exemplify
its traveling; it darts without the word.
Who wills devoutly to absorb, contain,
birds give him pain.
- Richard Wilber, "In a Bird Sanctuary"
_The Beautiful Changes_ (1947)
Lar Kaufman <= my opinions
kaufman@multimax.arpa
{bu-cs,decvax,necntc,talcott}!encore!kaufman
Fidonet: 1:322/470@508-534-1842
--
Lar Kaufman <= my opinions
kaufman@multimax.arpa
{bu-cs,decvax,necntc,talcott}!encore!kaufman
Fidonet: 1:322/470@508-534-1842