mm@cloud9.Stratus.COM (Mike Mahler) (09/21/89)
Hi,
About 2 months ago there was a big push to seperate bird
"OWNERS" from bird "WATCHERS" and to disallow entries from
bird "OWNERS" into this group and to point them instead to
rec.pets. It was said this was the original purpose of
rec.birds and I can understand that.
It's not my attempt to try and stir up controversy again,
but I'd like to propose the creation of rec.birds.exotic
where exotic bird "WATCHERS" could converse with each other
and with exotic bird "OWNERS" (sorry, I don't like this
term, my Nape owns ME!).
What do you all think?
Michael
--
"You kill what you fear and you fear what you don't understand..."
- Genesisdmark@joey.cs.buffalo.edu (David Mark) (09/23/89)
In article <7995@cloud9.Stratus.COM> mm@cloud9.Stratus.COM (Mike Mahler) writes: > > Hi, > > About 2 months ago there was a big push to seperate bird > "OWNERS" from bird "WATCHERS" and to disallow entries from > bird "OWNERS" into this group and to point them instead to > rec.pets. It was said this was the original purpose of > rec.birds and I can understand that. > > It's not my attempt to try and stir up controversy again, > but I'd like to propose the creation of rec.birds.exotic > where exotic bird "WATCHERS" could converse with each other > and with exotic bird "OWNERS" (sorry, I don't like this > term, my Nape owns ME!). > > What do you all think? I guess I think the key distinction in the kind of activity is not whether the human is watching or owning or whatever, but the status of the bird, whether the bird is captive or "wild and unrestrained" I like to look at the bird collections in the National zoo in DC, or in my Dad's aviary for that matter, but I am not 'birding' when I do that. Whether the bird is "exotic" or not has almost nothing to do with it-- as I look out the window, I see two species of exotics, house sparrow and starling. I think the group has been pretty healthy lately. Since the original purpose involved birding, I hope to see wild bird postings make up over 50%, averaged over say 2 weeks. I certainly can tollerate up to 50% captive bird postings, and doubt if there would be enough interest for the establishment of a "cagebird" group. David Mark dmark@cs.buffalo.edu
wcapling@vaxc.ARPA (Wayne Caplinger) (09/26/89)
I wish to blur the distinctions between bird watchers and cagebird keepers, and between "captive" and "wild and unrestrained" birds. My SO and I go birding frequently. We also have brought birding home with us. We have a few cockatiels sharing our flat. They have full run of the place, and are never in a cage. If they wish, they can play with us, sleep on a knee, or ride on a shoulder. Some parts of the flat are theirs excusively, for sleeping, eating and breeding. They lead bird-like lives, except that they have no predators, and their jungle is small. We usually feel less affinity with "cagebird" people (emphasis on "cage") than with bird watchers. -- :: WCaplinger@teknowledge.com :: Cimflex-Teknowledge Corp., P.O.Box 10119, Palo Alto, CA 94303 :: (415) 424-0500 ext 423
jake@claris.com (Char Fugel) (09/26/89)
From article <7995@cloud9.Stratus.COM>, by mm@cloud9.Stratus.COM (Mike Mahler): > > Hi, > > About 2 months ago there was a big push to seperate bird > "OWNERS" from bird "WATCHERS" and to disallow entries from > bird "OWNERS" into this group and to point them instead to > rec.pets. It was said this was the original purpose of > rec.birds and I can understand that. > > It's not my attempt to try and stir up controversy again, > but I'd like to propose the creation of rec.birds.exotic > where exotic bird "WATCHERS" could converse with each other > and with exotic bird "OWNERS" (sorry, I don't like this > term, my Nape owns ME!). > > What do you all think? > > Michael > > > -- > "You kill what you fear and you fear what you don't understand..." > - Genesis Michael - Jake (my African Grey) and I agree wholeheartedly!! Char Fugel
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (09/26/89)
>> It's not my attempt to try and stir up controversy again, >> but >> What do you all think? I think that's exactly what you did, unfortunately. Both groups co-exist just nicely in rec.birds except when someone decides that one group or the other is the 'proper' owner of the group. I've yet to see any real argument for why, based on the low volume of this group, we can't just quietly share the space. If we could just avoid the every-two-month "let's kick the pet owners out of *our* group" discussion, this would be a really fun place to visit.... -- Chuq Von Rospach <+> Editor,OtherRealms <+> Member SFWA/ASFA chuq@apple.com <+> CI$: 73317,635 <+> [This is myself speaking. I am not Appl Segmentation Fault. Core dumped.
przybyls@hpavla.HP.COM (Tom Przybylski) (10/04/89)
> We have a few cockatiels sharing our flat. > They have full run of the place, and are never in a cage. > If they wish, they can play with us, sleep on a knee, or ride on a shoulder. > Some parts of the flat are theirs excusively, > for sleeping, eating and breeding. > They lead bird-like lives, except that they have no predators, > and their jungle is small. > :: WCaplinger@teknowledge.com I find this intriguing. I would love to give my pet cockatiel, Annie, more freedom, but I find that I must keep a very close watch on her when she is out of the cage. It seems that you would have to go *way beyond* childproofing a house to let a bird run/fly free when your not around. The things I worry about would be stuff like not having hazardous house plants, her chewing on line cords, falling in toilets, her eating books, etc. I would also worry about stepping on her (she is always around my feet and follows me from room to room) or that she might get outside when I enter or leave or answer the door. How do you handle things like that? What about the mess issue? I don't mind the feather and seed mess around the cage and the few droppings when she is out, but it would seem to be a lot more severe mess if the bird was out of the cage all of the time even if they pick out one corner to call "home". Maybe I worry too much? - Tom Przybylski przybyls@hpavla.HP.COM
dc@jake.UUCP (Don Chiappone) (10/16/89)
In article <5280002@hpavla.HP.COM>, przybyls@hpavla.HP.COM (Tom Przybylski) writes: > > We have a few cockatiels sharing our flat. > > They have full run of the place, and are never in a cage. > > If they wish, they can play with us, sleep on a knee, or ride on a shoulder. > > [text deleted] > > :: WCaplinger@teknowledge.com > > I find this intriguing. I would love to give my pet cockatiel, Annie, > more freedom, but I find that I must keep a very close watch on her when > she is out of the cage. It seems that you would have to go *way beyond* > childproofing a house to let a bird run/fly free when your not around. > How do you handle things like that? What about the mess issue? I [text deleted] > > Maybe I worry too much? > > - Tom Przybylski > przybyls@hpavla.HP.COM I have an African Grey and an African Senagal and neither bird is caged. There are 2 large cages with perches on them and they seem to spend most of their time climbing about or just sitting there. They both fly and the only problem I initially had was their tendency to chew dry wall (of all things). I started providing them with wood blocks suspended by chain and now their chewing is confined to the blocks. You must be careful opening outside doors of course. As far as the mess -- just seeds, apples, etc -- no big deal to clean up. I keep plexiglas sheets under the cages. The small additional mess cleanup effort is more than compensated for by the feeling of at least giving them some freedom. A caged bird is a sad sight.
mary@dinorah.wustl.edu (Mary E. Leibach) (10/18/89)
dc@jake.UUCP (Don Chiappone) writes: >I have an African Grey and an African Senagal and neither bird is caged. >There are 2 large cages with perches on them and they seem to spend most of >their time climbing about or just sitting there. They both fly and the only >problem I initially had was their tendency to chew dry wall (of all things). [...] Sounds really neat. I wish I could have my parrots loose all of the time, but Vila(Conure) has to be supervised constantly, or Blakey (Parakeet) gets her foot bit. I have never had Blakey out when the other two were, Blakey gets attacked when there are cage bars between her and Vila. The only way to stop it is to heavily supervise Vila when he is out, and have Blakey's time out after I have put the terrible twosome to bed with their cage covered. Otherwise, everyone would be allowed out all the time I was home (and conscious!). >A caged bird is a sad sight. Mayhaps you should tell Dayna and Del that. Being wild finches, they spend all of their time in their 36"x24"x20"high flight cage. You should see them HAPPILY fly from branch to branch (yes they have natural branches), shoot straight up like rockets from bird bath to high perch, etc. Exactly one week from moving into this cage, their first egg was laid. We now have a nest of six, which should hatch in a week or so. I'd say they were happy. And I am happy watching them. You want to see a REALLY sad sight? Go to your local department store and look in the pet section. It seems to be the fashion for them to have these tinsy-tiny cages, and crowd a lot of budgies, or two cockatiels in them. This results in health problems, and some times mutilated birds from them fighting in the cramped quarters. I have seen bloody birds, sick birds, and dirty-bedragled birds. As a result, I boycott any store that carries birds and abuses them in this fashion. I won't buy any thing there: clothes, videotapes, etc. It is really aweful. -Mary PS: For the birders who feed birdies in their backyards -- Want to treat your little friends? Get a bag of good quality small parrot seed from the pet store. Put it in the feeder for a treat. My mother says they go crazy over the stuff. They also are grateful if you put a little parakeet gravel in the feeder when the ground is snow covered. See, the bird hobby isn't such a menace to civilization. ('Cept the dumb department stores!!!) This has been a Blake's Birds (tm) Bird Tip.
stewartw@warpdrive.UUCP (Stewart Winter) (10/19/89)
In article <4337@jake.UUCP> dc@jake.UUCP (Don Chiappone) writes: >In article <5280002@hpavla.HP.COM>, przybyls@hpavla.HP.COM (Tom Przybylski) writes: >> I find this intriguing. I would love to give my pet cockatiel, Annie, >> more freedom, but I find that I must keep a very close watch on her when >> she is out of the cage. It seems that you would have to go *way beyond* >> childproofing a house to let a bird run/fly free when your not around. >> How do you handle things like that? What about the mess issue? I >> >> Maybe I worry too much? >I have an African Grey and an African Senagal and neither bird is caged. That's hardly a fair comparison. Cockatiels and budgies will fly around all the time. Most larger and medium sized parrots would sooner walk than fly, so given a fun environment they will stay (relatively) put. This simply isn't true for cockatiels. Cockatiels can easily get in trouble chewing on powercords, poisoness plants, etc. Better that they are out under supervision. >them some freedom. A caged bird is a sad sight. All pet birds are caged. Your's just has a house as a cage. Hope your birds aren't sad. Stewart -- Stewart Winter Cognos Incorporated S-mail: P.O. Box 9707 VOICE: (613) 738-1338 x3830 FAX: (613) 738-0002 3755 Riverside Drive UUCP: uunet!cognos!stewartw Ottawa, Ontario "The bird for the day is .... parrotlet." CANADA K1G 3Z4
dc@jake.UUCP (Don Chiappone) (10/27/89)
In article <999@dinorah.wustl.edu>, mary@dinorah.wustl.edu (Mary E. Leibach) writes: > [...] > You want to see a REALLY sad sight? Go to your local department store > and look in the pet section. It seems to be the fashion for them to > have these tinsy-tiny cages, and crowd a lot of budgies, or two > cockatiels in them. This results in health problems, and some times > mutilated birds from them fighting in the cramped quarters. I have > seen bloody birds, sick birds, and dirty-bedragled birds. As a > result, I boycott any store that carries birds and abuses them in this > fashion. I won't buy any thing there: clothes, videotapes, etc. It > is really aweful. > > -Mary > As I said .. don't let them get away with it ! I too have seen this type of treatment in Department stores and Pet stores and IT IS INTOLERABLE. What you need to do is ask for the owner/manager and explain your concerns for the treatment the birds are receiving and (politely) request speedy remedy. If you are told that it will be taken care of promptly, thank them and check up on them in about a day. If they have corrected the problem, fine. My experiences however, suggest that either they will not correct the problem(s) or will tell you to "take a hike". I leave the store, summon the nearest Police assistance and go back. The Officer usually explains to them that there are numerous Statutes regarding animal cruelty and that I plan on filing a Police report on them. This will usually get results. If not, DO IT ! I had one Pet store so bad that when the Animal Control Officer visited the store on my complaint, they closed the store down. Places usually go along with your (reasonable) requests because they don't need/want the hassle from the Police and you. It is so sad that these kinds of actions are needed, but it is even sadder to see the defenseless creatures left to the ignorance and carelessness of businesses and NOT attempt to help the animals and birds in some way. I'll get off the Soap Box now ...
dc@jake.UUCP (Don Chiappone) (10/27/89)
In article <7826@jake.UUCP>, dc@jake.UUCP (Don Chiappone) writes: > In article <999@dinorah.wustl.edu>, mary@dinorah.wustl.edu (Mary E. Leibach) writes: > > > [...] > > You want to see a REALLY sad sight? Go to your local department store > > and look in the pet section. It seems to be the fashion for them to text deleted > I had one Pet store so bad that when the Animal Control Officer visited the > store on my complaint, they closed the store down. Places usually > go along with your (reasonable) requests because they don't need/want the > hassle from the Police and you. The first sentence looks good in "vi" but not in "vnews".. it should have been: I had one Pet store so bad that when the Animal Control Officer visited the store on my complaint, they closed the store down. text deleted