denise@dadla.WR.TEK.COM (Denise Caire) (12/06/89)
To all you bird-loving-narrow-minded-insufferable idiots who read this
net, you all started the discussion about killing cats to keep them
from the birdies at your feeders. When I asked a simple question of
how do I keep my cat in my yard when he's out, you all blew up. You
are obviously intolerant of other people's opinions.
First of all, isn't name calling fun? Had enough? I know I have. So,
I won't make any personal judgements of you as you have of me.
I am not:
lazy
irresponsible
uncaring
cruel
uneducated
Anyone who knows me would laugh at using any of those adjectives to
describe me.
I am going to be back in a few days with some facts about the following:
I am going to present you all with the facts about the following:
cats - what are their good characteristics?
- what are their bad ones?
- what are the major causes of death?
birds - what are the major causes of declining populations?
Any one of you mud-slinging birders could also do a little research
before spouting off but no, let's gang up on one of the only cat-likers
who also likes birds. (My folks have 20 acres and all sorts of animals
such as deer and bear regularily forage there. They have cats and bird
feeders and the cats have only ever gotten one bird in over 10 years
because of the location of the feeders.)
>Thank goodness ... I don't have to Read, Kill or in anyway Deal with
>your opinion of what a CAT should be or do.
Well, I changed my mind, fella. You want to shove your opinions of
what I should do as a cat owner in my face without even so much as
looking at the facts first. Well, I'm going to get facts.
Why are you bird-lovers so down on cats? I doubt that they really
are as big of a leader in birdacide as you make them out to be.
And, the general intolerance towards facts some of you display truely
lends credence to the term "bird-brain".
I vow that if, through the course of my investigation, the facts prove
that cats are the leading cause of the falling bird population, then
I'll eat my (clear throat) hat. (Almost said cat but I just couldn't.)
I'm sure that there are many other factors directly attributable
for the decline in bird population, such as pesticides, fertilizers,
toxic wastes, spreading civilization, unatural imbalance within the
animal kingdom, etc.
What are you doing about it as a professed bird-lover? Do you belong
to any environmentally conscience group? Greenpeace, Audubon Soceity,
other? Get active. Make a difference. It's easy to sit back at your
terminal and call a cat lover names, but how about putting your words
into actions?
See you later,
Denise Caire
denise@dadla.WR.TEK.COM
Well, I shall return with some facts as outlined above. I hope you
can come armed with an open mind and some tolerance of others opinions.
>Obviously ALF's obsessed with cats too! Hmmmmmm?
>CAN WE TALK ABOUT BIRDS FOR AWHILE? mary@dinorah.wustl.edu (Mary E. Leibach) (12/07/89)
denise@dadla.WR.TEK.COM (Denise Caire) writes: >First of all, isn't name calling fun? Had enough? I know I have. So, >I won't make any personal judgements of you as you have of me. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >I am not: > lazy > irresponsible > uncaring > cruel > uneducated Hm, really interesting. Because in the same post, you write: >you bird-loving-narrow-minded-insufferable idiots >intolerant of other people's opinions >you mud-slinging birders >the general intolerance towards facts some of you display truely >lends credence to the term "bird-brain". I think that this is really a case of giving someone enough rope, they will hang themselves. If it weren't so sad, it would be funny. To be fair, your point about getting active in organizations that help the environment is a good one. You are not, however, the only one that posts to this group that loves both cats and birds. I do, as do others I have seen post. Mind you, making jokes about birds like the one you made about mine is NOT the way to establish yourself as a bird lover. Still waiting. -Mary
grp@unify.uucp (Greg Pasquariello) (12/07/89)
In article <929@wrgate.WR.TEK.COM> denise@dadla.WR.TEK.COM (Denise Caire) writes: > >I am going to be back in a few days with some facts about the following: >I am going to present you all with the facts about the following: > cats - what are their good characteristics? > - what are their bad ones? > - what are the major causes of death? > birds - what are the major causes of declining populations? >See you later, >Denise Caire >denise@dadla.WR.TEK.COM > Please stop beating a dead horse. If you want to report cat facts, fine, but do it in another newsgroup or better yet by mail. -Greg -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Pasquariello (916) 920-9092 grp@unify.UUCP Unify Corporation ...!{csusac, pyramid}!unify!grp
denise@dadla.WR.TEK.COM (Denise Caire) (12/07/89)
In article <1048@dinorah.wustl.edu> mary@dinorah.wustl.edu (Mary E. Leibach) writes: >denise@dadla.WR.TEK.COM (Denise Caire) writes: > >>First of all, isn't name calling fun? Had enough? I know I have. So, >>I won't make any personal judgements of you as you have of me. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>I am not: >> lazy >> irresponsible >> uncaring >> cruel >> uneducated > > >Hm, really interesting. Because in the same post, you write: > >>you bird-loving-narrow-minded-insufferable idiots >>intolerant of other people's opinions >>you mud-slinging birders >>the general intolerance towards facts some of you display truely >>lends credence to the term "bird-brain". Well, of course I had to open the article with the first line (you bird-loving-narrow-minded-insufferable idiots) to sort of even the slate from about 10 of you calling me names. And the other lines (intolerant of other people's opinions, mud-slinging birders, credance to the term "bird-brain") simply reiterate the general tone of some responses to the topic "how to keep cats from killing birds at the feeder short of shooting them". It really isn't any fun to be on the receiving end, is it? >I think that this is really a case of giving someone enough rope, they >will hang themselves. If it weren't so sad, it would be funny. Here, here, I agree! If certain persons reading this group would wake up to the facts about declining bird populations and quit blaming the misrepresented cat, then it will be worth it. > >Mind you, making jokes about birds like the one you made about mine is >NOT the way to establish yourself as a bird lover. And, after reading all the personal insults, observing the arrogance, and waking up to the fact that this is an elitest group, who really cares if you and yours think I love birds. (What I know in my heart is all that really matters.) > >Still waiting. > -Mary You already got what one might interpret as an almost apology. I said the joke was bad and uncalled for; that it for shock effect only. When JIM KIMBALL can admit he is wrong publicly, in this group, then I might issue a full "no-strings-attached" aplogy. Until then, don't hold your beak. Me too, Denise
christ@ccnysci.UUCP (Chris Thompson) (12/07/89)
In article <929@wrgate.WR.TEK.COM>, denise@dadla.WR.TEK.COM (Denise Caire) writes: > To all you bird-loving-narrow-minded-insufferable idiots who read this > net, you all started the discussion about killing cats to keep them > from the birdies at your feeders. When I asked a simple question of > how do I keep my cat in my yard when he's out, you all blew up. You > are obviously intolerant of other people's opinions. > Several people posted perfectly reasonable methods of preventing cats from killing birds in the area. Are you ignoring these, or did you miss them? And: belling a cat is not useless, as some have maintained. Perfect, no. But certainly more effective than nothing. > First of all, isn't name calling fun? Had enough? I know I have. So, > I won't make any personal judgements of you as you have of me. > I am not: > lazy > irresponsible > uncaring > cruel > uneducated > I recall flaming you for equating killing a cat with killing a child. YOU said that; it was never mentioned by the birder you were in the process of flaming at the time. I stand by it. > Anyone who knows me would laugh at using any of those adjectives to > describe me. > I don't know you. I'm not laughing. > I am going to present you all with the facts about the following: > cats - what are their good characteristics? > - what are their bad ones? > - what are the major causes of death? > birds - what are the major causes of declining populations? > I really don't see how this has progressed to this point. I think most of us would agree that 1. Cats are fine pets for many people. 2. They kill a lot of rodents. 3. Some of them kill a lot of birds. Who cares what the leading cause of cat mortality is? Not part of the discussion, unless I missed something important. Birds-declining pops: (see below). > Any one of you mud-slinging birders could also do a little research > before spouting off but no, let's gang up on one of the only cat-likers > who also likes birds. (My folks have 20 acres and all sorts of animals > such as deer and bear regularily forage there. They have cats and bird > feeders and the cats have only ever gotten one bird in over 10 years > because of the location of the feeders.) > Did I miss something that said ALL cats were bird-killers? I thought I read several postings which said the netters kept their animals inside, or had them trained not to kill birds. And if I might say, you/they have only SEEN them get 1 in 10 years. Negative evidence cannot be taken as positive proof. > Well, I changed my mind, fella. You want to shove your opinions of > what I should do as a cat owner in my face without even so much as > looking at the facts first. Well, I'm going to get facts. > Please include your source material. > Why are you bird-lovers so down on cats? I doubt that they really > are as big of a leader in birdacide as you make them out to be. > And, the general intolerance towards facts some of you display truely > lends credence to the term "bird-brain". > I'm so glad we decided not to resort to name-calling anymore. > I vow that if, through the course of my investigation, the facts prove > that cats are the leading cause of the falling bird population, then > I'll eat my (clear throat) hat. (Almost said cat but I just couldn't.) > > I'm sure that there are many other factors directly attributable > for the decline in bird population, such as pesticides, fertilizers, > toxic wastes, spreading civilization, unatural imbalance within the > animal kingdom, etc. > "Unatural imbalance within the animal kingdom"? Like, too damn many feral cats? > What are you doing about it as a professed bird-lover? Do you belong > to any environmentally conscience group? Greenpeace, Audubon Soceity, > other? Get active. Make a difference. It's easy to sit back at your > terminal and call a cat lover names, but how about putting your words > into actions? > No one said that other factors were not involved. Habitat destruction, pollution, etc. all have combined to wreak havoc on populations of wild birds. Is this cause to let our pets (not just cats) exacerbate the problem? What am I doing? What do I know about the problem? What organizations do I support? Well, I'm a PhD candidate in biology. Ny doctoral thesis title is "Effects of predation on tern populations". I'm a member of The American Ornithological Union, The Association of Field Ornithologists, The American Society of Naturalists, National Wildlife Federation. I know that cats (both 'pets' and feral) were the leading cause of mortality on piping plovers (an endangered species) at Breezy Point, NY, in the Jamaica Bay Natl. Wildlife Refuge. If you look in the publication, "Annual Piping Plover and Colonial Waterbird Survey" published by the Seatuck Organization (part of the Cornell Univ. Laboratory of Ornithology) you will see that predation by cats, rats, and seagulls is one of the worst things terns and plovers have to deal with. I knowthat the Bahama Parrot, an endangered subspecies of the Amazon Parrot whose only range is on 2 islands in the Bahamas, had virtually zero nesting success in the last 2 years. Cause: cats. (Bahama parrots are also unique in that they are the only ground-nesting parrot- they nest in limestone cavities). > can come armed with an open mind and some tolerance of others opinions. > I must admit it: although I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I am extremely intolerant of people who keep yelling about their right to their opinion, in the process of trying to ram their opinion down my throat. I often vomit on them as soon as they get in range. I'm not sure if that is due to the opinion, or some sort of a proximity effect. > >Obviously ALF's obsessed with cats too! Hmmmmmm? Doesn't that say something to you? > >CAN WE TALK ABOUT BIRDS FOR AWHILE? Please, yes. Thank you. Chris -- Chris Thompson <cbtcc@cunyvm.cuny.edu> <christ@ccnysci> [What does not kill us, pisses us off!!]
christ@ccnysci.UUCP (Chris Thompson) (12/07/89)
In article <3781@ccnysci.UUCP>, christ@ccnysci.UUCP (Chris Thompson) writes:
:> Refuge. If you look in the publication, "Annual Piping Plover and Colonial
:> Waterbird Survey" published by the Seatuck Organization (part of the Cornell
:> Univ. Laboratory of Ornithology) you will see that predation by
:> cats, rats, and
:> seagulls is one of the worst things terns and plovers have to deal with.
:> I know that the Bahama Parrot, an endangered subspecies of
:> the Amazon Parrot whose
:> only range is on 2 islands in the Bahamas, had virtually zero nesting success
:> in the last 2 years. Cause: cats. (Bahama parrots are also unique in that
:> they are the only ground-nesting parrot- they nest in limestone cavities).
Sorry for the editor screw-up. Also- references cam be emailed on request.
The above is how the original posting should have read. Also, I apologize if
I waxed a little too vitriolic in the original. Cats who kill my birds
(oops-my 'study subjects') are a VERY sore point with me. Same with dogs,
gulls, rats, snakes, what have you.
Chris
--
Chris Thompson
<cbtcc@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
<christ@ccnysci>
[What does not kill us, pisses us off!!]burkett@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Edward W Burkett) (12/07/89)
I'm tired of talking about CATS and BIRDS .......
Let us talk about ohhhhh ..... how about CATS and BIRDS ..... no
Lets talk about CATS and BIRDS ... ok I got it!!!!
Lets talk about CATS and BIRDS.
Webster's NewWorld Dictionary (2nd Edition)
Ob-sess [L. obsessus] to haunt or trouble in mind, esp. to an abnormal degree;
preoccupy greatly
Ob-ses-sion [L. obsessio] 1. orig., the act of an evil spirit in possessing or
ruling a person 2. a) the fact or state of being obsessed with an
idea, desire, emotion, etc., b) such a persistent idea, desire
emotion, etc., esp. one that cannot be got rid of by reasoning.
Ob-ses-sive adj. of, having the nature of, or causing and obsession or
obsessions
Neu-ro-sis any functional disorder characterized by anxiety, compulsions,
phobias, depression, dissociations, etc.
****************
Obsessional Neurosis a psychoneurosis characterized by compulsive ideas or
irresistible urges and often manifested in the ritualistic
performances of certain acts.
****************
The title of this news group is rec.birds ... we, the readers, are suppose to be
obsessed with BIRDS.
Ed
[I wonder why there isn't a news group called rec.feral.cats]dmark@acsu.Buffalo.EDU (David Mark) (01/04/90)
In article <1381@uwm.edu> burkett@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Edward W Burkett) writes: >I'm tired of talking about CATS and BIRDS ....... > etc. etc. > >The title of this news group is rec.birds ... we, the readers, are suppose to be >obsessed with BIRDS. > >Ed >[I wonder why there isn't a news group called rec.feral.cats] Here, here! (Or is it Hear, hear!?) I got back from Christmas vacation and was excited (and surprised!) to see about 100 new postings in this group. Well, I've waded through 30, and about 20 are this Birds.vs.cats thing. My opinion would only inflame at least one if not both sides, so I won't give it. But I cannot resist stating that one of the frustrating things about net-land is that there is almost NO WAY to stop an eccentric 'debate' such as this. And a desparate call for it to stop elicits 10 more responses!! Sigh. David Mark, Buffalo