seth@cbnewsh.ATT.COM (peter.r.clark..jr) (02/22/90)
A few weeks ago I posted a request in rec.pets for some basic info about buying, and caring for, an African Grey. Well, I only got two responses, but they were very informative and only reinforced my desire to purchase one. But now I have some more questions that may affect my final descision, so I'd appreciate any further assistance... Ok, here goes: First, my situation. My wife and I currently have two small dogs and two cats. I expect the cat population to grow by one or two, but not the dog. If memory serves me, one person said that the bird would be fine with the dogs, but didn't know about the cats, and the other said that the bird would get along fine with the cats but wasn't sure about the dogs. I guess I think I'm going to be OK on that front. As for space, I'm going to be moving into a 4 BR house with a large open living room. I therefore also don't think I'm going to have any crowding problems (we're all currently living in a 2 BR apt and everybody gets along fine...). I've decided to buy from a breeder rather than a pet shop, but haven't found one yet. I haven't exactly been looking real hard yet either (if you know anybody in the NJ/Eastern Pa. area...). Ok, finally the questions: Any comments on anything I've said so far? (Ignorance time) What *exactly* does it mean when a birds wings are clipped? The best response I could get from a local pet store was "They do that so the bird can't fly". What a genius. I could've figured that out. Anyway, is it permanent? Desirable? If not permanent, should I do it at regular intervals? (Please, no flames if you feel there's something inhumane about this. I'm just asking for info. That doesn't mean I've made any descisions) Can these birds be trained to be taken outside without flying away? Is it difficult? (I'm assuming that it is) I was planning on getting a large cage with a perch on top, and probably putting a perch or two on the first floor of the house. I've also thought about hanging a perch from the ceiling. Any comments on this? Finally, are there any particularly good books I should pick up in my travels? Again, thanks in advance for any help you can give me... Pete Clark Jr. att!hos1cad!seth att!cbnewsh!seth
bamford@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (harold.e.bamford) (02/23/90)
In article <8395@cbnewsh.ATT.COM> seth@cbnewsh.ATT.COM (peter.r.clark..jr) writes: >A few weeks ago I posted a request in rec.pets for some basic info >about buying, and caring for, an African Grey. ... >I've decided to buy from a breeder rather than a pet shop, [...] Good choice. >(Ignorance time) What *exactly* does it mean when a birds wings are >clipped? [...] Anyway, is it permanent? Desirable? If not >permanent, should I do it at regular intervals? For an African Grey, the flight feathers are cut to 1/3 of their normal length. This is no more painful to the bird than a haircut is to an unruly and fidgeting 2-year old child. The bird doesn't like it but there is no physical pain. And the cut feathers will be shed when the bird molts and the NEW feathers must be re-clipped or you could accidently lose the bird. As to when to re-clip -- look at the feathers when the bird does its stretching exercises. When you see new flight feathers, schedule a clipping for the next week after they have completely formed. As to its desirability, this is something that is passionately debated in this newsgroup. There seem to be three basic camps. 1) clipping wings is much like cutting the feet off a human being; cruel and sickening. 2) clipping wings unnecessarily restricts the bird's freedom of movement and self-expression. The benefits of clipping are out-weighed by the problems. 3) clipping wings serves to control a bird, both physically and emotionally. The benefits outweight the problems. I discount category 1 as the ravings of the totally inexperienced and ignorant. Flames to /dev/null. I would rather not consider it further, although I KNOW somebody will now pipe up and present a pile of half-baked reasons for this attitude. Or a least a pile of *something* ! Categories 2 and 3 each have a LOT to consider. I personally WAS in category 2 -- our birds used to be unclipped and could fly freely around the house (subject to my discipline). I have since gone over to the 3rd camp and both birds are now clipped and my life is much easier and the birds are, IMHO, happier and safer. >Can these birds be trained to be taken outside without flying away? >Is it difficult? (I'm assuming that it is) It can be done, but it is difficult and dangerous. Even a well trained bird will get startled and fly a few dozen yards away. But a few dozen yards is probably farther than a hand-fed baby bird has ever been. It will get lost almost instantly. Generally they will find a tree to land in and huddle in fear. Even if you spot the bird, you may not be able to convince it to come down to you because a) it can't be YOU - your so small and far away! (really!), b) flying DOWN is hard for an inexperienced flyer, and c) you're yelling and obviously agitated; I must be in trouble! And that's assuming you can find the bird at all. And of course birds-of-prey will find a parrot an excellent meal. It would be all over in a second, even if the parrot is on your shoulder. No joke. Even if the hawk/owl/osprey or whatever doesn't carry away the parrot, it will be severely hurt. Some people may recommend training with a "foot leash" which is a short cord or chain on one leg of the bird attached to the perch. The problem is that if the bird falls off the perch (which happens more often than you might think), it could be left dangling up-side-down. An African Grey doesn't particular mind being upside down but it may be startled and start to scream and thrash about, possibly injuring itself. If the leash is long enough to let the bird reach the ground then it is too long; a bird can forget about the leash and try to fly away, ripping its leg off in the process. This is generally considered bad form. :-) I don't recommend taking unclipped birds outside without a cage. If you discount the bird-of-prey problem and have a PROPERLY clipped Grey, taking the bird outside is great! Merlin (my Congo African Grey) and I have enjoyed many walks outside, with him riding on my shoulder and checking everything out. He loves it! >I was planning on getting a large cage with a perch on top, and >probably putting a perch or two on the first floor of the house. >I've also thought about hanging a perch from the ceiling. Any >comments on this? I can recommend a "Jock" cage. The full size one I have is probably twice as much as Merlin (my Grey) needs, but he likes the cage. The top opens up to give a high perch and the door is damn near impossible to open from the inside. But some birds are gifted with the ability to get out of anything. It comes with four feeding cups and has glass inserts at the bottom sides that serve to help contain the mess when he starts flinging food (a common practice among birds, particular Greys). Merlin loves his, I'm sure. Mobile perches made from PVC pipe are easy and cheap to make. Make a couple and make them easy to "take down" for traveling to friends' houses. Use coarse sandpaper on the perch so that your bird can get a grip. By the way, the cage should be in the room where everybody congregates normally; the bird should always be around people and not kept in its own room. It is too easy to banish a bird to its own room for some misbehavior. A more effective punishment is being caged and then IGNORED. With people all around, the bird wants to come out. In its own room, the bird may be perfectly happy to play by itself. Eventually the bird will train *you* to leave it alone (depending on its personality, of course). This is especially true of noisy, shrieking birds. Put a cover on the cage to quiet the bird but don't banish it to another room. Others will be happy to give you a lot of advice on this, I'm sure. Good luck. -- Harold
ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry) (02/24/90)
In article <8395@cbnewsh.ATT.COM> seth@cbnewsh.ATT.COM (peter.r.clark..jr) writes: >I've decided to buy from a breeder rather than a pet shop, but >haven't found one yet. I haven't exactly been looking real hard yet >either (if you know anybody in the NJ/Eastern Pa. area...). If you don't mind driving to Northern Virginia, there is an EXCELLENT place here that breeds their own and also procures them from breeders they know and trust. If interested, e-mail me for info. I recommend them highly and absolutely without reservation (and no I don't have stock :-)). It's about a 3 hour drive from Joisey. and VERY worth the trip. >(Ignorance time) What *exactly* does it mean when a birds wings are >clipped? The best response I could get from a local pet store was >"They do that so the bird can't fly". What a genius. I could've >figured that out. Anyway, is it permanent? Desirable? If not >permanent, should I do it at regular intervals? (Please, no flames >if you feel there's something inhumane about this. I'm just asking >for info. That doesn't mean I've made any descisions) The number one cause of death in pet birds is accidents in the home. Most of these accidents are preventable by clipping the wings of the bird. This consists of cutting the flight feathers. It is NOT permanent. It should be done at regular intervals. Many people believe that clipping wings is inhumane. They believe that birds were meant to fly. I certainly understand their opinion. However, in my personal experience (losing a quaker parakeet because he flew headlong into a wall), I will always clip the wings of my birds. >Can these birds be trained to be taken outside without flying away? >Is it difficult? (I'm assuming that it is) You can never be completely sure that the bird will not fly when startled. And if it does, you can never be completely sure that he will be recaptured. >I was planning on getting a large cage with a perch on top, and >probably putting a perch or two on the first floor of the house. >I've also thought about hanging a perch from the ceiling. Any >comments on this? Please get a GOOD cage. Good is defined by both size and its safety. Many "cheaper" bird cages have sharp edges and/or lead paint. Be sure first. Lead toxicity will kill your bird. (also, throw out any teflon cookwear you may have as the gas WILL kill birds if overheated to any extent.) The better cages are much more expensive, but will last longer and be easier to clean.