JAHAYES@MIAMIU.BITNET (07/18/90)
The following article is reproduced without permission from _Our
Planet_, the official organ of the U.N. Environmental Program.
BIRD SMUGGLER ARRESTED: Police protection for endangered species
Brazilian police, with the help of INTERPOL and TRAFFIC,
arrested a prominent Mexican scientist, Jesus Lopez, for attempting
to smuggle rare Brazilian birds into Mexico. (TRAFFIC is an inter-
national network which records trade in animals and plants.)
Lopez had booked his seat and checked his luggage onto flight
RG872 to Mexico. But the police, acting on information passed to
IBAMA, the Brazilian agency which enforces controls on trade in
rare and endangered species, intercepted and searched his luggage
and found 14 rare birds: 8 hocos (a species of gallinaceous [sic]
from South America that has a spectacular crest), two golden
parrots, and four hyacinth aras (one of the most beautiful parrots,
completely blue in color). All of these species are included in
CITES Appendix 1 which prohibits any trade in listed species.
(CITES is the Convention of International Trade in Endangered
Species of Wild Fauna and Flora.) The birds were valued at over
US$100,000.
"This shows once again that the assistance of the inter-
national community is essential to help countries fight against
the pillaging of their natural heritage," said Obdolio Menghi,
CITES' scientific coordinator for Latin America. "The prices that
live animals from South America command in North American and
European markets attract dealers from all over the world. It's
very difficult to stop this trade when wealthy buyers are behind it."
----
The point is NOT "don't keep indoor birds" but should perhaps be
"don't keep endangered species indoors" unless you're a zoological
garden. I have no real wish to start up a flamefest on the moral
value of caging wild birds (though I suppose my bias already shows),
but merely wish to draw to everyone's attention the fact that keeping
some birds is illegal (if they appear on the CITES appendix 1).
Comments are welcome; I suppose flames are, too, if you must. Use
your best judgement when deciding whether to post or e-mail, however.
Josh Hayes, Zoology Department, Miami University, Oxford OH 45056
voice: 513-529-1679 fax: 513-529-6900
jahayes@miamiu.bitnet, or jahayes@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu
Ed aims to please, and so does Louise, so don't hide arms,
get SIDE arms! at AAAAMES GUNS!kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (07/19/90)
In article <90198.165720JAHAYES@MIAMIU.BITNET>, JAHAYES@MIAMIU.BITNET writes: > The point is NOT "don't keep indoor birds" but should perhaps be > "don't keep endangered species indoors" unless you're a zoological > garden. I have no real wish to start up a flamefest on the moral > value of caging wild birds (though I suppose my bias already shows), > but merely wish to draw to everyone's attention the fact that keeping > some birds is illegal (if they appear on the CITES appendix 1). > Comments are welcome; I suppose flames are, too, if you must. Use > your best judgement when deciding whether to post or e-mail, however. Ok, well I don't agree with you. And here is why. The Washington DC zoo has two Palm Cockatoos which they are "breeding". These birds (appendix 1) are on display, and are subjected to all of the traffic passing by. Cockatoos are not easy to breed when they are given lots of room and privacy. The person taking care of the birds admitted that they do not know anything about parrots, he knows lots about raptors. These Palms are being feed dog food and Hartz Mountain (so I have been told by someone who asked the zoo). Now I have 2 breeding pairs of Moluccan and Goffin Cockatoos, that are in an environment that allows them privacy, plenty of good food, and lots of room. I am a private breeder the Moluccans are on Cites Appendix 1. I think that if you looked at the two situations even you would agree that the birds in my possesion are more likly to breed than the ones at the Washington Zoo. It occurs to me that what bothers most people is that some breeders make money off of breeding the birds, for some reason this is thought of as bad. After all of the money that I have put into food, housing, vet bills, and time taking care of these birds I don't expect to ever get into the black, but I do expect to successfully breed these birds and help increase the worldwide population of them. Something that as far as I can tell some Zoo's (not all) are playing at it. Most Zoos do not have the money, time, facilities to properly setup a breeding situation for endangered species. Private individuals are much more likly to foot the bill and be able to deal with this. This also has the effect of having more birds in breeding situations than ever would be possible given all of the Zoos in the world working on it. Now there is one thing that I think should happen. I believe that anyone breeding (and it should be open to anyone, and I mean anyone) endangered birds have to obtain a permit that requires them to provide information about their success, failures, and general information to a central database. In this way people would be adding to the information about these birds and in the long run would help to increase the success rate in breeding endangered birds. Also this would keep track of breeding pairs so that the genetic pool could be kept clean and even expanded. The last item on my wish list would be that Cites allow some (I don't want to try and define this one) endangered birds out of their countries to help keep the genetic pool viable. -- InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 703.709.9896 FAX
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (07/19/90)
Opps, one thing I didn't say. Excellent! Someone got caught sumggling birds. I also wish that the public were more aware of what a smuggled birds is and what to look for. "Gee, I wonder why this usually $1200 bird is selling for $200 and the guy says he can get me any bird I want, yuck yuck, why should I pay more for the silly thing??!" Ergh, this line of reasoning really makes me mad. They just don't realize that a smuggled bird will cost less most of the time than a quarentined or domestic bird. Sigh.-- InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 703.709.9896 FAX
duane@cbnewsj.att.com (duane.galensky) (07/19/90)
In article <90198.165720JAHAYES@MIAMIU.BITNET> JAHAYES@MIAMIU.BITNET writes: >The following article is reproduced without permission from _Our >Planet_, the official organ of the U.N. Environmental Program. > >BIRD SMUGGLER ARRESTED: Police protection for endangered species > > "This shows once again that the assistance of the inter- >national community is essential to help countries fight against >the pillaging of their natural heritage," said Obdolio Menghi, >CITES' scientific coordinator for Latin America. "The prices that >live animals from South America command in North American and >European markets attract dealers from all over the world. It's >very difficult to stop this trade when wealthy buyers are behind it." > > >---- >The point is NOT "don't keep indoor birds" but should perhaps be >"don't keep endangered species indoors" unless you're a zoological >garden. I have no real wish to start up a flamefest on the moral >value of caging wild birds (though I suppose my bias already shows), >but merely wish to draw to everyone's attention the fact that keeping >some birds is illegal (if they appear on the CITES appendix 1). >Comments are welcome; I suppose flames are, too, if you must. Use >your best judgement when deciding whether to post or e-mail, however. > > >Josh Hayes, Zoology Department, Miami University, Oxford OH 45056 what's to flame? these magnificient species are DYING...i'm not one to be overly concerned about offending someone's feelings on the matter! it's not only against the law, it's an abhorrent, immoral act that should be deplored by anyone who respects the dignity of these animals. sadly, those who would purchase birds and other animals imported as such are probably too consumed in their own personal egos to give a whit about their dignity as wild creatures. i'm troubled by humankind's presumption that we can "own" such creatures in the first place... i was fortunate enough to inherit a white cockatoo which was a legally imported bird. even so, it's hard to look at the animal and not feel regret that he's doomed to a life in a domestic setting...he has such elegance and intelligence... i'd prefer that he not be captive, but given that he's living at my house, it's my responsibility to make his life as good as possible. duane
JAHAYES@MIAMIU.BITNET (07/19/90)
In article <26A4B6E5.12DB@intercon.com>, kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann)
says:
[lots of good points about breeding endangered birds]
After some thought, I agree with you on at least some points. I guess
I'd like to see endangered birds being bred by competent breeders.
I had assumed that meant zoos, but apparently that is not necessarily
correct. My experiences with zoos has been uniformly excellent, because
my exposure has been pretty much to two parks: St. Louis, and Cincinnati,
the latter having an excellent captive breeding program. For example,
they are currently breeding Micronesian Kingfishers, the entire population
of which has been trapped and put into captivity (about twenty birds).
They "exhibit" the birds on television monitors; the birds themselves
appear to have a very large facility and are left virtually undisturbed.
And they've had some success (only one so far, but it's a start).
Perhaps the core issue is, what are we breeding these birds FOR?
Is the goal to eventually return them to their native habitat (I would
argue that that ought to be the goal)? Or is it simply to maintain a
population in captivity? My bias is probably formed by having spent
some time in the tropics and seen parrots of various sorts on the wing,
and then in captivity. They're not the same birds. I have no illusions
that life in the wild is carefree and joyous; I don't subscribe to some
"Jungle Book" mentality. I know that mortality is high, and disease
and parasitism is rampant. But comfortable domesticated birds are one
thing, and scrappy wild birds are another, and I have my preferences.
The reality is, of course, that the habitat simply doesn't exist any
longer for a number of endangered species, and they must be kept in
cages until that habitat is restored, if it ever is. But we oughta at
least try.
Josh Hayes, Zoology Department, Miami University, Oxford OH 45056
voice: 513-529-1679 fax: 513-529-6900
jahayes@miamiu.bitnet, or jahayes@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu
In the late Devouring Period, fish became obnoxious. Clamosaurs
and Oysterettes appeared as appetizers.chuq@Apple.COM (Smile when you say that) (07/20/90)
duane@cbnewsj.att.com (duane.galensky) writes: >i'm >not one to be overly concerned about offending someone's >feelings on the matter! it's not only against the law, it's >an abhorrent, immoral act that should be deplored by anyone >who respects the dignity of these animals. sadly, those who >would purchase birds and other animals imported as such are >probably too consumed in their own personal egos to give >a whit about their dignity as wild creatures. Well, you succeeded in offending THIS person's feelings. First, not all imported birds are smuggled. Many are imported legally. Like mine was. That little piece of reality seems to have slipped past you. Second, I'm REALLY upset at your assumption (and massive generalization on top of it) that folks who buy imports don't care about the animals. You're completely full of c..p. From talking to lots of bird owners, MOST import buyers seem to fall into two categories: 1) limited budget. If a hand-fed bird is out of their budget, it comes down to a choice of no bird or an import. 2) Nobody told them. Many folks who bought imports didn't know there was a difference, didn't understand the implications of an imported bird and weren't educated about the problems that wild-caught birds imply. I, for the record, fall into both categories. My umbrella is wild-caught and legally imported. I couldn't really afford a hand-fed and I hadn't really researched the implications of how wild-caught birds are imported and what it does to the habitat. I won't buy another import, and I don't encourage people to buy imports -- but rather than get on your high horse and pronounce import buyers as egotistical twits, get involved with the groups trying to fix the industry and educate the buyers instead. You don't fix problems by feeling superior. You fix problems by working on the problem. The problems are: o Stopping smuggling. You won't do this by making legal imports illegal. That makes the problem worse, not better. you do it by better enforcement at the border, better enforcement at the pet shop and reseller and by education. My feeling is simple: any reseller found to be selling a smuggled bird should have their stock impounded and their license revoked. Make birds a priority with customs as well. o Education. teaching shops and sellers to educate buyers on the advantages of hand-fed birds. Working to get the word out to people interested in birds about why the extra cash is worth it, what the implications are of imported birds, and MOST importantly, how to tell a smuggled bird from a legal import or hand-fed. >even so, it's >hard to look at the animal and not feel regret that he's doomed to >a life in a domestic setting. On the other hand, mortality of birds is MUCH higher in the wild. Life expectency is much lower. Your little white cockatoo doesn't have to worry about being eaten in the middle of the night, or starving to death, or heat stroke. Properly handled birds in captivity are happy and satisfied, live longer and are healthier. Yes, birds belong in the wild -- but that doesn't mean they can't be happy in captivity as well. I know MANY birds, mine for one, that given a choice of staying at home or being sent out to 'freedom' would go running for the cage as fast as their little legs could carry them. Free food, free shelter, lots of toys and affection -- whatta deal (I know this one for a fact. My bird has a perch out on the patio that she uses when we're out there. Her only real interest is in getting back inside where she belongs...) My comment is this: it's easy to act superior. It's important to be part of the solution, instead. Don't make broad (incorrect) general statements from ignorance. Learn the facts and get involved, instead. -- Chuq Von Rospach <+> chuq@apple.com <+> [This is myself speaking] We tend to idealize tolerance, then wonder why we find ourselves infested with losers and nut cases -- Patrick Nielsen Hayden
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (07/21/90)
In article <90200.105135JAHAYES@MIAMIU.BITNET>, JAHAYES@MIAMIU.BITNET writes: > In article <26A4B6E5.12DB@intercon.com>, kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) > says: > > [lots of good points about breeding endangered birds] > Thanks. > After some thought, I agree with you on at least some points. I guess > I'd like to see endangered birds being bred by competent breeders. > I had assumed that meant zoos, but apparently that is not necessarily > correct. My experiences with zoos has been uniformly excellent, because > my exposure has been pretty much to two parks: St. Louis, and Cincinnati, > the latter having an excellent captive breeding program. For example, > they are currently breeding Micronesian Kingfishers, the entire population > of which has been trapped and put into captivity (about twenty birds). > They "exhibit" the birds on television monitors; the birds themselves > appear to have a very large facility and are left virtually undisturbed. > And they've had some success (only one so far, but it's a start). > I wish that all parks/zoos breeding ANY endangered animals only show them on TV. Come on folks, when was the last time you did some public breeding? (no comments from the ASB crowd :-)) > Perhaps the core issue is, what are we breeding these birds FOR? > Is the goal to eventually return them to their native habitat (I would > argue that that ought to be the goal)? Or is it simply to maintain a > population in captivity? My bias is probably formed by having spent > some time in the tropics and seen parrots of various sorts on the wing, > and then in captivity. They're not the same birds. I have no illusions > that life in the wild is carefree and joyous; I don't subscribe to some > "Jungle Book" mentality. I know that mortality is high, and disease > and parasitism is rampant. But comfortable domesticated birds are one > thing, and scrappy wild birds are another, and I have my preferences. > I agree, I too would like to see these birds going back into the wild. At least to re-enforce the wild population. They are much better seen in the wild than in my cage :-), even though I am rather attached to my 6 year old Mollucan male. > The reality is, of course, that the habitat simply doesn't exist any > longer for a number of endangered species, and they must be kept in > cages until that habitat is restored, if it ever is. But we oughta at > least try. > Well perhaps ONE day the worlds governments will see the reality of what is happening to our world. If we keep raping it the way we are currently there isn't much hope for us much less birds/animals to survive. :-( But perhaps the worlds governments will see the "light" and start saving and expanding habitat. When/if this happens it will be a shame if we all haven't made an effort to keep captive populations of endangered species. Hopefully this will happen. Kurt -- InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 703.709.9896 FAX
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (07/21/90)
In article <43165@apple.Apple.COM>, chuq@Apple.COM (Smile when you say that) writes: > >even so, it's > >hard to look at the animal and not feel regret that he's doomed to > >a life in a domestic setting. > > On the other hand, mortality of birds is MUCH higher in the wild. Life > expectency is much lower. Your little white cockatoo doesn't have to worry > about being eaten in the middle of the night, or starving to death, or heat > stroke. Properly handled birds in captivity are happy and satisfied, live > longer and are healthier. Yes, birds belong in the wild -- but that doesn't > mean they can't be happy in captivity as well. Opps, let's not get too carried away here. The fact of the matter is that only about 1 in 10 birds survive from their spot of capture to a pet store, the survival after that is very much up to the owner of the bird. Unfortunatly, most people who buy an import and haven't done a lot of reading up don't know how to take care of the bird either, so the mortality rate continues to be rather high. Given that the bird goes to someone who takes the time to learn how to take care of the bird, or eventually ends up with someone who knows how to take cae of it, then yes the survival rate is much better than the wild. But that is only if you don't look at the hundreds that die on the way to your cage. :-( The other problem with imports is that unfortunatly most people purchase based on price, even those with money to spend. This leads to people getting birds straight out of the wild that they end up giving away, selling, etc. and the whole cycle is repeated. Those people are also very unlikly to go out and spend more money on a domestic bird if they have been burned once. I agree that the only real way to deal with this issue is to educate the public. I don't think that pet shops, in general, really care. They want to make money, and buying an Afircan Grey (read, Timneh Grey) for about $75-150 then selling it for $200-400 is pretty good profit and they can move more of them than a domestic at $900. Sigh. Kurt -- InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 703.709.9896 FAX
mm@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Mike Mahler) (07/23/90)
In article <43165@apple.Apple.COM>, chuq@Apple.COM (Smile when you say that) writes: > >even so, it's > >hard to look at the animal and not feel regret that he's doomed to > >a life in a domestic setting. > > On the other hand, mortality of birds is MUCH higher in the wild. Life > expectency is much lower. Your little white cockatoo doesn't have to worry > about being eaten in the middle of the night, or starving to death, or heat > stroke. Heat stroke is probably more common in people's houses where the birds might not have free access to water pools and/or shade. This might seem like a nit but it's interesting to note that domestic birds don't always have it so cushy and in fact might be presented with dangers they either wouldn't experience in the wild or would be able to avoid. > Properly handled birds in captivity are happy and satisfied, live > longer and are healthier. Ah, but so few people know what proper handling, or care, for an exotic birds is. Even the "experts" can't agree on proper nutrition requirements. > Yes, birds belong in the wild -- but that doesn't > mean they can't be happy in captivity as well. My birds don't even know what the "wild" is...
freds@legs.UUCP (Fred Sieg) (07/24/90)
in article <43165@apple.Apple.COM>, chuq@Apple.COM (Smile when you say that) says: > > I know MANY birds, mine for one, that given a choice of staying at home or > being sent out to 'freedom' would go running for the cage as fast as their > little legs could carry them. Free food, free shelter, lots of toys and > affection -- whatta deal (I know this one for a fact. My bird has a perch > out on the patio that she uses when we're out there. Her only real interest > is in getting back inside where she belongs...) > I want to add my experience to the above sentiment. Our umbrella cockatoo loves to climb around on a vine growing on our patio. She'll climb out of our reach and look smugly down at us. BUT when we get out of her sight, she'll scramble down as fast as she can to make sure we're still hanging around. We cannot go back in the house without taking her as well. My brother-in-law has a scarlet mackaw. They live on a lot of acreage in the desert. The bird flies freely. This includes going for 1-2 hour trips with the crows. He has lived in the trees and ALWAYS returns for many years. Due to the business being run there, chainsaws are in use constantly. Ty-bird will land on your shoulder looking for some loving or a treat in the midst of it all. Who are we to say that life in the wild, semi-wild, or domestic is good/bad for these guys? Fred -- Fred Sieg | uucp: ...!uunet!legs!freds AST Research Inc. | Fax: (714) 727-9358 Tel: (714) 727-8465 If any opinions were expressed, they are my own and not those of my employer (who would NEVER express an opinion).
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (07/24/90)
In article <1778@lectroid.sw.stratus.com>, mm@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Mike Mahler) writes: > > Yes, birds belong in the wild -- but that doesn't > > mean they can't be happy in captivity as well. > > My birds don't even know what the "wild" is... > Wild? PC my 7 year old Moluccan Cockatoo gets annoyed (ie; screams at the top of his little (huge sound) lungs) when left outside when no one is near him. He just does not know what to do. Of course, given a bit of time I am sure that he would rather be in the great outdoors where he can chew on whatever he feels like, and could scream just for fun... :-) So has anyone seen a Cockatoo actually open a combination lock? Kurt -- InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 703.709.9896 FAX