boris@ocf.berkeley.edu (Boris Chen) (08/07/90)
My Cockatiel seems to have a skin problem. He is pulling out feathers. Also, with some of his feathers have only the shaft left. I tried giving him vitamin suppliments and anti-stress formulas, thinking it may be due to me moving around. Also, I bought Feather Glo bird bath in attempts to releave skin irritation. It didn't help, so I tried an anti-picking spray called Quell made by Mardel labs, and that doesn't seem to help either. I had a vet check for parasites or mites, and the result was negative. The vet put a plastic crown around his neck to help prevent the pullling out of feathers, but that doesn't solve the itching. I am a student in Berkeley and the vet I brought him to is in southern California where my parents live. I am wondering if it is wise to bring the bird down with me again to see the vet, since the stress due to the trip (about 400 miles by car) would only make the bird's health worse. My bird seems okay in every other way. It acts the same as it always did, so I suspect it to be a skin problem, not any type of internal problem, though I may be wrong. Any advice would be helpful. And I would appreciate it if anyone has any suggestions as far as books concerning bird diseases. Thank you boris@ocf.berkeley.edu
ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry) (08/07/90)
In article <1990Aug6.230634.4064@agate.berkeley.edu> boris@ocf.berkeley.edu (Boris Chen) writes: >My Cockatiel seems to have a skin problem. He is pulling out feathers. Also, >with some of his feathers have only the shaft left. I tried giving him >vitamin suppliments and anti-stress formulas, thinking it may be due to >me moving around. Also, I bought Feather Glo bird bath in attempts to >releave skin irritation. It didn't help, so I tried an anti-picking >spray called Quell made by Mardel labs, and that doesn't seem to help either. >I had a vet check for parasites or mites, and the result was negative. >The vet put a plastic crown around his neck to help prevent the pullling out >of feathers, but that doesn't solve the itching. A collar should be the LAST thing you try for a plucking bird. Was the vet a real avian vet? If you are going to leave the collar on, watch the bird EVERY MINUTE. I can name you dozens of cases of strangulation due to collars on birds. Spray the bird for mites even though the vet says there are none. It can't hurt. Use the sprays found in most bird shops. Also, start adding nekton S and nekton bio to the food. Regular vitamin supplements don't have the necessary protein and amino acids necessary for some birds. You may also want to purchase some of the special "feather plucker" toys found in Bird Talk. The one I use looks like a large coiled rope that the bird takes apart bit by bit until it looks like a mop. Cured many of my birds. Also keep in mind that the bird may just be peeved that you moved him and will just get better on his own. Still, the nekton won't hurt him and may do him a world of good. The toy will stimulate his little brain cells and make him a happy camper. Another possible explination is that the bird wants to breed. Cockatiels are like rabbits in their sex drive and urges. Keep this in mind if your bird keeps getting too restless and plucky. Don't take the poor thing 400 miles away. If he is upset that he was moved in the first place, moving him again may not be the thing. Find a GOOD avian vet in your area. Parrot World magazine has a hotline for finding avian vets. Unfortunately, I don't have one in front of me to get you the number. > Any advice would be helpful. And I would appreciate it if anyone >has any suggestions as far as books concerning bird diseases. The Harrison and Harrison Avian Disease book is the best. It is also the most expensive at $80.00 or so. It is the vet textbook on the subject. Also, try Diseases of Cage Birds by Burr, published by TFH. Another good one is the Bird Owner's Home Health and Care Handbook by Gallerstein. But be careful not to try too much self-diagnosis of your bird. Let a good vet handle everything but the most routine. Mikki Barry Natural Intelligence Aviary
susans@cfi.COM (susans) (08/07/90)
In article <1990Aug6.231106.4279@agate.berkeley.edu> boris@ocf.berkeley.edu (Boris Chen) writes: >My Cockatiel seems to have a skin problem. He is pulling out feathers. Also, Boris: You seem pretty sure his feather plucking is due to illness, parasites, etc. Having read a bunch of articles on neurotic feather plucking birds, I can suggest that since the vet has ELIMINATED parasites as a diagnosis, your bird is plucking out his own feathers due to some neurosis or just plain old boredom. Is his cage very small? Did you recently move him from one cage to a new one? If so, return him to the old cage right away. It could be his new surroundings don't suit him. Do you have a new roommate? Have you changed the location of his cage? Taken away a favorite toy? Given him a new toy that looks really fun to you? If so, return his old toy, take away his new toy, move his cage back where it was, etc. Do you spend much time with him? As a student, you may be so busy that you are not able to devote much time to him. Cockatiels are generally very gregarious birds, and if he's bored and/or lonely, he could be plucking his feathers out of frustration. If you don't have enough time to devote to him, I suggest finding someone who does. Don't make the mistake of running out and buying him a "friend." If you don't have adequate time for him (and I'm only guessing), you won't have adequate time for two. Everything I have ever read tells me those bird sprays and shampoos are never necessary or recommended by bird breeders. I'm suprised the vet didn't tell you that. A bird should be given the opportunity to bathe, or a light spritz with a plant mister, in plain water several times a week. Nothing else is necessary. >Also, I bought Feather Glo bird bath in attempts to >releave skin irritation. It didn't help See above. > -- Susan S. (susans@cfi.com) Another Friend of Bill's
mm@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Mike Mahler) (08/07/90)
In article <26BE4AEA.C75@intercon.com>, ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry) writes: > In article <1990Aug6.230634.4064@agate.berkeley.edu> boris@ocf.berkeley.edu (Boris Chen) writes: >>My Cockatiel seems to have a skin problem. He is pulling out feathers. Also, >>with some of his feathers have only the shaft left. I tried giving him >>vitamin suppliments and anti-stress formulas, thinking it may be due to >>me moving around. Also, I bought Feather Glo bird bath in attempts to >>releave skin irritation. It didn't help, so I tried an anti-picking >>spray called Quell made by Mardel labs, and that doesn't seem to help either >>I had a vet check for parasites or mites, and the result was negative. >>The vet put a plastic crown around his neck to help prevent the pullling out >>of feathers, but that doesn't solve the itching. > A collar should be the LAST thing you try for a plucking bird. I'll go one step further and say that collars are useless and only cure the symptom, not the disease. > Spray the bird for mites even though the vet says there are none. It > can't hurt. I'm at a loss as to why you think it can't, especially when you are not aware of the exact spray that's being used. Some sprays are propelled by propellants that can render the bird unconscious is used too often/close. Even if the vet isn't an avian vet, it's a good probability that she can detect something as simple as parasites. But then an experienced avian vet wouldn't jump into using an Elizabethian collar first thing. > Use the sprays found in most bird shops. Use what your VET reccomends! > Also, start adding nekton S and nekton bio to the food. I don't agree with this advice. There is such as thing as too much. First off, you don't know what type of feed Boris uses and what vitamins it may or may not contain. Some vitamins accumulate in fat and can reach toxic levels which may do more harm than good. I've had great results with 1/2 tsp Nekton-BIO mixed with the daily feed and shaken (not stirred 8-). > also want to purchase some of the special "feather plucker" toys found in > Bird Talk. The one I use looks like a large coiled rope that the bird > takes apart bit by bit until it looks like a mop. Cured many of my > birds. Yes! Feather plucking (if not parasite induced) is often caused by stress or boredom! Michael -- "And I'm hovering like a fly, waiting for the windshield on a freeway." -Genesis (Peter Gabriel)
plemmons@nsf1.mth.msu.edu (Steve Plemmons) (08/08/90)
Could someone e-mail me subscription info for Parrot World Magazine? Thanks, Steve P.S. Is it as good as Bird Talk? I think that Bird Talk is a goldmine of information for the price. -- ======================================================================== Steve Plemmons plemmons@mth.msu.edu Math Department plemmons@frith.egr.msu.edu Michigan State University 21144smp@msu.bitnet
ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry) (08/08/90)
In article <1910@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> mm@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Mike Mahler) writes: >> Spray the bird for mites even though the vet says there are none. It >> can't hurt. > > I'm at a loss as to why you think it can't, especially when > you are not aware of the exact spray that's being used. Some > sprays are propelled by propellants that can render the bird > unconscious is used too often/close. > > Even if the vet isn't an avian vet, it's a good probability > that she can detect something as simple as parasites. But > then an experienced avian vet wouldn't jump into using an > Elizabethian collar first thing. Unless the vet had the bird overnight and woke it up to check for feather mites and/or lice, then the vet may well have missed a potential problem. >> Use the sprays found in most bird shops. > Use what your VET reccomends! Use Rich Health (makers of Vionate) Scalex Mite and Lice Spray for Birds. >> Also, start adding nekton S and nekton bio to the food. > > I don't agree with this advice. > There is such as thing as too much. First off, you don't > know what type of feed Boris uses and what vitamins it > may or may not contain. Some vitamins accumulate in fat > and can reach toxic levels which may do more harm than > good. I've had great results with 1/2 tsp Nekton-BIO mixed > with the daily feed and shaken (not stirred 8-). No matter what food is being fed, Nekton S can't hurt if given in the doses recommended on the package. As for 1/2 tsp of Nekton BIO, that is far too much, especially for one worried about toxicity. Mikki Barry Natural Intelligence Aviary
ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry) (08/08/90)
In article <1990Aug7.185758.14290@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> plemmons@brain.mth.msu.edu (Steve Plemmons) writes: >Could someone e-mail me subscription info for Parrot World Magazine? >P.S. Is it as good as Bird Talk? I think that Bird Talk is a goldmine >of information for the price. Bird Talk is basically the MacWorld of bird magazines. It's a general pet bird magazine that often has good articles, but once in awhile gives information that is exactly WRONG. Use your common sense. Parrot World is the magazine of the National Parrot Association and is slanted towards aviary owners, breeders, and those with lots of pets and/or hand feeding babies. It's quite low quality as far as typeset, etc., but often has good information. You can get them at: National Parrot Association 8 No. Hoffman Lane Hauppauge, NY 11788. Parrot World also contains a hotline listing for each state with people who know their birds. Try calling the person in your state to ask about good vets. Bird World is yet another magazine that is somewhere between Parrot World and Bird Talk. It has an Avian Vet. classified section. Of course, being listed there only means you have paid the fee, not that you are a good vet as is attested by one of the listings in the Virginia area of an idiot who calls himself an avian vet. You can subscribe to them by calling 1-800-332-6111. American Cage Bird is another magazine that has an avian vet listing. It's much smaller than Bird World's and is an ok magazine except for the caveat that it allows advertisers to write "articles" telling you that you need to buy their products. They are at: One Glamore Court Smithtown, NY 11787 And, of course, there is the AFA Watchbird magazine that you get when you become a member of the American Federation of Aviculture. The AFA is having their yearly convention this week at the Hyatt in Crystal City, Virginia. I will be found at the American Bird Company booth helping them out. I'm sure they'll have a sign up table there. Mikki Barry Natural Intelligence Aviary
boris@ocf.berkeley.edu (Boris Chen) (08/08/90)
Do you (Mikki Barry, and Mike Mahler, or anyone else) recommend that I remove the Elizabethian collar? I recieved a recommendation for an avian vet. The vet I went to didn't seem like he really knew what he was talking about, and that was probably the sign that should make me walk out the door before spending all that money. Anyway, I thank you all for the help, and Pinkie (my bird) also thanks you I'm sure. +==================================================================+ + Boris Chen || Berkeley, CA || boris@ocf.berkeley.edu + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + "And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares, and... + + neither will they learn war any anymore." ---Micah 4:3 + +==================================================================+
ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry) (08/08/90)
If it were my bird, I would take the collar off. First be sure you CAN take it off safely. If it were my bird I would also give it more toys, start Nekton S and Bio, and perhaps even move the cage to another part of the house for variety's sake. I would also spray for mites/lice, and leave the TV or a radio on in the bird's hearing/seeing range for company when I was gone. But of course, this is not meant as a "recommendation". It's merely what *I* would do :-). Mikki Barry Natural Intelligence Aviary
mm@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Mike Mahler) (08/08/90)
In article <1990Aug8.054800.677@agate.berkeley.edu>, boris@ocf.berkeley.edu (Boris Chen) writes: > Do you (Mikki Barry, and Mike Mahler, or anyone else) recommend > that I remove the Elizabethian collar? If it were my bird I would. > I recieved a recommendation for an avian vet. The vet I went to didn't > seem like he really knew what he was talking about, and that was > probably the sign that should make me walk out the door before > spending all that money. I'm SURE that in your area (Berkeley) there are a few groups devoted to the discussion of exotic birds (check San Francisco). Look in the back of bird magazines, they usually have club listings. From there you can find out where the good vets are. Don't trust referal agencies, what with their hidden kickbacks and all... -- "And I'm hovering like a fly, waiting for the windshield on a freeway." -Genesis (Peter Gabriel)
mm@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Mike Mahler) (08/08/90)
In article <26BF7BE7.1576@intercon.com>, ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry) writes: > In article <1910@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> mm@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Mike Mahler) writes: > >> Use the sprays found in most bird shops. > > > Use what your VET reccomends! > > Use Rich Health (makers of Vionate) Scalex Mite and Lice Spray for Birds. Use what your VET reccomends! > > I've had great results with 1/2 tsp Nekton-BIO mixed > > with the daily feed and shaken (not stirred 8-). > > As for 1/2 tsp of Nekton BIO, that is far too much, especially for > one worried about toxicity. FAR too much? This is what the directions and my avian vet reccomended. Do you have contradictory information? (By the way, the scoop in Nekton-BIO is very close to 1/2 tsp.) -- "And I'm hovering like a fly, waiting for the windshield on a freeway." -Genesis (Peter Gabriel)
chuq@Apple.COM (Spot the Wonder Dog) (08/09/90)
mm@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Mike Mahler) writes: > I'm SURE that in your area (Berkeley) there are a few groups > devoted to the discussion of exotic birds (check San Francisco). > Look in the back of bird magazines, they usually have club > listings. Unfortunately, the San Francisco area is pretty quiet for some reason. There's a society out in the Livermore area, one in San Francisco and one down in the South Bay. The one within reach of me (down in the South Bay) hasn't exactly impressed me, so I never joined up. >From there you can find out where the good vets > are. Don't trust referal agencies, what with their hidden > kickbacks and all... Sally Blanchard is in this area (she writes lots of stuff for Bird Talk) and would be a good contact point. I have her number at home somewhere. We do have some good avian vets in the area. I don't know about the Berkeley area but I can recommend some good folks in Fremont if nothing closer shows up. -- Chuq Von Rospach <+> chuq@apple.com <+> [This is myself speaking] It's a small world, after all! It's a small world, after all! It's a small world, after all! It's a small, small world!
evelyn@uts.amdahl.com (Evelyn Mast) (08/09/90)
In article <43752@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Spot the Wonder Dog) writes: >mm@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Mike Mahler) writes: > >>From there you can find out where the good vets >> are. Don't trust referal agencies, what with their hidden >> kickbacks and all... > >Sally Blanchard is in this area (she writes lots of stuff for Bird Talk) and >would be a good contact point. I have her number at home somewhere. We do >have some good avian vets in the area. I don't know about the Berkeley area >but I can recommend some good folks in Fremont if nothing closer shows up. > >-- >Chuq Von Rospach <+> chuq@apple.com <+> [This is myself speaking] > >It's a small world, after all! >It's a small world, after all! >It's a small world, after all! >It's a small, small world! I recommended to the original poster (via email) the avian vet to whom I take my 3 parrots: Dr. James Harris, D.V.M. who runs the Montclair Vet. Clinic in Montclair district of Oakland (which is close to Berkeley). Dr. Harris writes occasionally for the American Federation of Aviculture's magazine AFA Watchbird. Evelyn amdahl!key!evelyn
mm@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Mike Mahler) (08/09/90)
In article <60Qw02h5be9901@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>, evelyn@uts.amdahl.com (Evelyn Mast) writes:
I recommended to the original poster (via email) the avian vet to whom
I take my 3 parrots: Dr. James Harris, D.V.M. who runs the Montclair
Vet. Clinic in Montclair district of Oakland (which is close to Berkeley).
Dr. Harris writes occasionally for the American Federation of Aviculture's
magazine AFA Watchbird.
Evelyn
Score 1 for the network!
--
Don't trust a big butt and a smile.ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry) (08/10/90)
In article <1920@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> mm@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Mike Mahler) writes: > Use what your VET reccomends! Would be good advice except that in many cases a VET may not know best what to recommend. First, you must find an AVIAN vet, keeping in mind, of course that many who call themselves avian vets are not in the least. You can't even count on those registered with the Avian Veterinary Association, since their only criteria for membership is that you are a vet. So, "use what your vet recommends" may simply be a knee jerk response that might not be the case. >> As for 1/2 tsp of Nekton BIO, that is far too much, especially for >> one worried about toxicity. > FAR too much? This is what the directions and > my avian vet reccomended. Do you have contradictory > information? Yes, I have contradictory information. *MY* avian vet says less than 1/8 of a teaspoon when put in the food. It doesn't seem logical for someone worried about toxicity from feeding nekton S wouldn't be similarly worried about bio. In any case, the Nekton rep at the AFA convention told me today that 1/8 of a teaspoon is plenty for one bird, and more would be a waste. Mikki Barry Natural Intelligence Aviaries
ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry) (08/17/90)
In article <873@cfiprod.UUCP> susans@cfiprod.UUCP (Susan Scheide -CFI-) writes: [some excellent advice about psychological causes of feather picking deleted] > Everything I have ever read tells me those bird sprays and > shampoos are never necessary or recommended by bird breeders. > I'm suprised the vet didn't tell you that. A bird should be > given the opportunity to bathe, or a light spritz with a > plant mister, in plain water several times a week. Nothing > else is necessary. Feather Glo actually has some agents in it that would alleviate irritation in the skin. While not strictly "necessary", if the bird was suffering from an inflammation of the skin for some reason, the feather glo may actually have helped. Also, as a practical matter, a vet can't effectively rule out feather lice unless the bird was checked in the middle of the night when the lice come out and are visible. A visual cue to check for would be "ratty" looking feathers with their bottoms freyed, and/or color pigment missing in areas. I'm not talking about "stress lines" here, but irregular tiny patches. In these cases, mite/lice spray specially formulated for birds works wonders. And don't forget the Nekton and Vionate! Even if the cause is psychological, it is obviously putting the bird under stress. Times of stress are when latent diseases will surface. Vitamins and minerals may help to prevent some of them. Mikki Barry Natural Intelligence Aviaries