ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry) (11/03/90)
In article <155@tivoli.UUCP> lark@tivoli.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) writes: >Yeah, I bet it _is_ quiet over at that trainer's concentration camp for >birds. Several comments. First, the greater macaws and amazons are very >intelligent birds. I guess if such techniques work on, say, Patty Hurst, >they will work on one of these birds. But (let me be perfectly clear >about this) IT WOULD BE WRONG. A person who is not prepared to accept >and accomodate the natural behavior of a bird should not have one as a >pet (or companion). Sure, you can modify behavior in small matters and >with respect for the animal's intellect and personality, but if you want >dog-like behavior, I respectfully submit that you want a dog for a pet. I have mixed feelings about the above. I have cockatoos, macaws and amazons (as well other things, but these are the loudest besides conures which are a completely different story :-)). On the one hand, you are right, and people are trying to adapt an animal's wild behavior to suit the people's whims. On the other hand, hand feed birds are domestic, and could not now function in the wild for the most part. Attempting to modify behavior of PET birds in this manner may be the only solution for those who have trained their birds TO scream by coming running every time the bird emmits a squack. This type of behavior, as well as yelling, getting agitated around the bird, etc. TRAIN the bird to scream. The bird is bored. He's in a cage. He wants some excitement. You provide quite a show ranting and raving when he screams. Birds are smart enough to figure that one out. >Second, hyacynth macaws are rare birds. I consider them a threatened >species. It would be wrong to impose behavioral patterns that might >impair the ability to court and establish a pair bond with a compatible >mate. I am aware that the survival of a number of bird species may lie >with successful captive breeding programs by aviculturists, so I have >no objection to one's keeping such birds. However, the "owners" of rare >and endangered species have a responsibility to propagate them. If the >owner of this macaw wants an obedient pet, she should take her bird to >an experienced, established aviculturist and exchange her for a less-rare >animal. Every hyacynth macaw in captivity is too valuable not to be kept >for breeding. I agree totally with this one. We made a very painful decision to breed our hand fed baby Moluccan female. Moluccans went on CITES appendix I this year. It's heartbreaking, but we HAVE to make sure that these birds (and others) do not go extinct at the hands of man. I personally feel that there is nothing wrong with playing for the bird for the first 4 years of its life. The next year should be spent weaning the bird away from you, and to its prospective mate. By that time, the bird should be old enough to breed, and given the proper environment and expertise, should produce chicks. >A side note. Support captive breeding (and limit bird abuse and loss of >indiginous populations) by buying birds that were hatched in captivity. >These can be identified by their seamless metal legbands and proper, >verifiable papers. Leave the wild stock for professionals. The captive- >hatched birds are much better adapted for life with humans, anyway. No kidding! However, there are a few problems with identifying true captive bred birds. 1) Oftentimes, especially in states like NY which have banned sale of imported birds as pets, unscrupulous people buy a closed band one size too big and force it on the bird's leg. 2) Many domestics are bred WITHOUT bands because bands can endanger the health of the bird. Leg bands can get caught on things and break the bird's leg. Many breeders will NOT band their birds. I band mine, but respect their reasoning. 3) There is no central organization that oversees the breeding of parrots like there is for dogs. Thus, there is no real way of verifying the identity of a bird except for the voluntary cooperation of breeders through the various organizations like Society of Parrot Breeders, National Cockatiel Society, etc. etc. >(Sorry for the preachy tone - I know it's not your bird - but this is >a very important issue in birdkeeping.) Yes, and believe it or not, if we work with bird watchers, etc., we can gain knowledge necessary to captive breed enough birds to satisfy the pet trade, while propagating rare and endangered species for return to the wild, if there is a wild LEFT to return them to :-(. >PS as a general observation, I can guage the health and happiness of my >birds by the raucousness of their calls. Prolonged silence is an >indication of an unhappy or ill bird. Very true. However, a Moluccan or Macaw SCREAM 30+ times per day is enough to change even the most staunch advocate of allowing pet birds to yell to their heart's content. With my breeders, it's a completely different situation. They ARE wild. They ARE imports for the most part. I soundproofed the breeding room :-) Mikki Barry
dkletter@adobe.COM (SUGAR in their vitamins?) (11/03/90)
In article <155@tivoli.UUCP> lark@tivoli.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) writes: >Yeah, I bet it _is_ quiet over at that trainer's concentration camp for >birds. really! i mean, it's one thing to say that you shouldn't allow your amazon or maccaw to make you live in fear, but this is really going too far! i would go INSANE if someone put me in a small box that was painted black on the inside. think about it. this is cruelty. there's got to be a smarter and BETTER way. i can't believe any intelligent human would listen to that kind of advice much less USE it. i am appalled. do unto others as you'd have done unto yourself. my amazon is a screamer also but i treat her with the kind of respect that anybody or animal deserves. if it's so untollerable, why not just give the bird to someone who can tollerate it rather than subject it to intimidation tactics that are cruel and unfair. your bird will not only be quiet after a while, but he/she will HATE you and probably turn on you one day. i think even Lar's idea of putting the bird in it's own cage in a darkened room is FAR better than that box. -- Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
rac@sherpa.UUCP (Roger Cornelius) (11/03/90)
From article <272F4B3A.D9E@intercon.com>, by kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann): > > We have used the "black box" behavior modification when they get too loud, > and in general it works fairly well. The getting off the perch problem I What exactly is "black box" behavior modification? Sorry if it was just explained, but I follow this group regularly and didn't see it. -- Roger A. Cornelius rac@sherpa.UUCP uunet!sherpa!rac
lark@tivoli.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) (11/06/90)
In article <7937@adobe.UUCP> dkletter@adobe.UUCP (SUGAR in their vitamins?) writes: >In article <155@tivoli.UUCP> lark@tivoli.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) writes: >>Yeah, I bet it _is_ quiet over at that trainer's concentration camp for >>birds. . . . >i think even Lar's idea of putting the bird in it's own cage in a darkened >room is FAR better than that box. That wasn't my suggestion, but it isn't a bad one. I've been provoked by my goldie's lory to the point of throwing a towel over the cage enough to dim the ambient light and "calm" him - but I feel guilty about raining on his parade when I do so. Birds become comfortable and secure in their own cages, and may be happier there than in the open. Moving the cage and all into a darkened room is a lot better than putting them into an unfamiliar box or cage. -lar