sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) (11/08/90)
I heard a rumor that Yellow-legged Gull (L. (argentatus) cachinnans, I assume) has been split off from Herring Gull (L. argentatus) in Europe. For European birders : Can anybody confirm? If yes, what is the authority in Europe that decided these things ? Does the BOU assume authority for the entire Western Palaearctic? Where is this kind of stuff published? Does L. cachinnans include *all* yellow-legged subspecies of L.argentatus, e.g. L.a. michahellis as well as L.a. cachinnans ? For American birders : I've heard there have been records of Yellow-legged Gull in Maryland this summer. Can anybody confirm? (Just to make sure : I'm NOT talking about Yellow-FOOTED Gull (L.livens), which is a recent split off Western Gull, and a summer visitor to the Salton Sea). Daan Sandee sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu Supercomputer Computations Research Institute Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 (904) 644-7045
jhiggott@axion.bt.co.uk (jeff higgott) (11/09/90)
In article <1360@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>, sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) writes: |> I heard a rumor that Yellow-legged Gull (L. (argentatus) cachinnans, I assume) |> has been split off from Herring Gull (L. argentatus) in Europe. |> |> For European birders : |> Can anybody confirm? |> If yes, what is the authority in Europe that decided these things ? Does the |> BOU assume authority for the entire Western Palaearctic? |> Where is this kind of stuff published? |> Does L. cachinnans include *all* yellow-legged subspecies of L.argentatus, |> e.g. L.a. michahellis as well as L.a. cachinnans ? I believe that Yellow-legged Gull has been split on the continent, and does include cachinans and michahellis. The BOU's pronouncements concern only Britain, and they have still not split cachinans.....yet. Large gull taxonomy is notoriously complicated. Apart from the yellow-legged cachinans and michahellis, there is also armenicus in south eastern Europe - is that a separate species "Armenian Gull"? In western Europe, the pink-legged argenteus occurs; further north (Scandanavia) the larger argentatus, which moves south in winter, with good numbers wintering in Britain. Further east in nort-east Europe, I think there is another yellow-legged race. Then, in USA there's smithsonianus, (which occurred in Britain last winter!).... And I wonder where Thayer's, Kumlien's. Glaucous etc fit in? I would like to see cachinans/michahellis split here in Britain though. All very complicated! It would be great to discuss Herring Gull taxonomy further. Anybody wish to comment.......Annika? * Jeff Higgott * * * "Under bridges, over bridges, to our destination" - HMHB
dgraham@kean.ucs.mun.ca (David Graham) (11/09/90)
In article <1360@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>, sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) writes: > I heard a rumor that Yellow-legged Gull (L. (argentatus) cachinnans, I assume) > has been split off from Herring Gull (L. argentatus) in Europe. I hadn't heard anything recently about this, but it rang a bell with me, and sure enough, I see that Blondel & Isenmann (_Guide des oiseaux de Camargue_, Delachaux & Niestl'e, 1981), say the following (my translation): "Go'eland leucoph'ee [Yellow-legged Gull, this would be] Larus cachinnans (Pallas) The Camargue breeding population belongs to the _cachinnans_ group which can reasonably assigned specific status in our view (Devillers, _Gerfaut_ 67, 1977 and --for their biometry-- Isenmann, _Vogelwarte_ 27, 1973)." (p. 128) As well, the 1984 French-language version of Peterson, Mountfort & Hollom's European Field Guide, _Guide des oiseaux d'Europe_ (Delachaux & Niestl'e), has L. cachinnans listed as a full species, though the English name is given as "Yellow-legged Herring Gull", which is what I remember calling it in France five years ago (except when I was calling it 'another one of *them*') now that I think of it. The PMG guide quite rightly says (IMHO) that (my translation again) "The L. argentatus-cachinnans-fuscus group is complex, especially in the immature plumages which are confusing. In the field, you should be content to separate adult Lesser Black-backed Gulls from (Yellow-legged) Herring Gulls!" (p. 122) PMG list both L. argentatus and L. cachinnans in one entry, despite giving full specific status to both. > Daan Sandee sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu > Supercomputer Computations Research Institute > Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 (904) 644-7045 -- *************************************************************************** David Graham dgraham@kean.ucs.mun.ca ***************************************************************************
dmark@acsu.buffalo.edu (David Mark) (11/13/90)
No-one has yet answered one part of Daan Sandee's original question: (to paraphrase) "Who or what body actually does the authoritative 'lumping' and 'splitting' for western Europe??" Is it just that, somehow, a concensus of scientific opinion develops? How do the birders know when the concensus has reached that stage? (In North America, the American Ornithologists' Union has a committee on taxonomy that 'officially' endorses taxonomic decisions based on published work. Same for a different "AOU" in AUstralia.) David Mark dmark@acsu.buffalo.edu
jhiggott@axion.bt.co.uk (jeff higgott) (11/14/90)
In article <45917@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU>, dmark@acsu.buffalo.edu (David Mark) writes: |> No-one has yet answered one part of Daan Sandee's original question: (to |> paraphrase) "Who or what body actually does the authoritative 'lumping' |> and 'splitting' for western Europe??" Is it just that, somehow, a |> concensus of scientific opinion develops? How do the birders know when the |> concensus has reached that stage? |> |> (In North America, the American Ornithologists' Union has a committee on |> taxonomy that 'officially' endorses taxonomic decisions based on published |> work. Same for a different "AOU" in AUstralia.) To the best of my knowledge, each country is resposible for its own bird list, including decisions on taxonomic status. For Britain, the body responsible is the British Orithological Union. It is the powers that be in the BOU who make the decisions based (I assume) on available information. Decisions are published primarily in its journal Ibis, but also in more 'available' journals such as British Birds and Birding World. I'm not sure whether the pattern differs in other countries. * Jeff Higgott - "Ask a stupid person and you'll get a stupid answer" - F&L