freds@legs.UUCP (Fred Sieg) (01/04/91)
>> The same vet that takes care of the birds at Universal Studios and runs >> a raptor rehab center. He has taken care of our two healthy, happy >> cockatoos through illness and accident. I would take his advice and more >> importantly, in this context, pass his opinion to other net folks any >> day. >> >> Addressing a dietary problem under the care of a physician is not >> stupid. A vet with these credentials is not a quack. >> I am not a vet and don't presume to know better. I did find a VERY good >> avian vet to entrust the care of our "children" to and heed his advice. >Unfortunately, credentials or no, many vets ARE quacks. Take, for example, >a vet that bills himself as an "expert" with multiple letters after his name >in this area. 54% of all the birds he ever put under anesthesia died. And I'm sure instances of incompetance can be found and cited for human physicians or any other profession for that matter. >Your vet may be wonderful, full of knowledge, and the one of the greatest >people in the world. However, I still maintain that advising a client that >3 days without food is ok, is reckless. If I was to search for a vet that had all the same opinions as I or the people that advise me, I may as well treat the birds myself. >I know very little about cockatoos, but the vet who advised food to be >with held from the cockatoo may have been right or wrong. He is a vet >with experience with raptors and it is common to remove food from >medium size to large size birds of prey for several days in order to >get them to come to the fist. My first Harris Hawk refused to eat for >7 days before she would eat off my fist. Although, this is quite worrying >for a beginner, raptors will rarely starve themselves to death. I guess I was remiss in giving every detail. We see him at a clinic where each vet specializes in types of animals. He is the avian vet. I have seen every type of pet bird come in and out of there. > Since the cockatoo had food available, I >guess it never got hungry enough to try the newer food. I didn't see the >original posting, so I don't know what was done to introduce the new food. >But it may have been better to introduce the new food slowly by adding with >the old food and/or letting the bird eat in close proximity to a bird >who did eat the new food. Adding new food to favorite food is useless. Chantee (the picky one) will just take her time picking out what she likes and throwing the rest as far as she can (which is pretty far!). Chantee lives with a second cockatoo, Zachary, who will try any food you offer and eat most. This has made no difference in her eating habits. > If the bird does not recognize the new items as >food, then they are not food. It is not that she does not choose to >eat the food, she genuinely does not know it is food. > I believe the best way >to modify a birds diet is to rely on our superior creativity and >intelligence to "trick" them into trying new foods. Sometimes this >can be done by letting the bird go hungry for a short time. Three days >does seem a bit too much. If you've been owned and trained by cokatoos you know that our "superior" intellect is a very questionable statement. Chantee knows food from other stuff. Hand her a possible toy and she tears into it. Hand her food she does not usually eat and she'll run from it. I've even cornered her with a tidbit in my hand. When she finally decides there is no escape, she'll VERY carefully take the food (so as not to get any on her tongue) until I let go of it, then drop it like a hot potato. >i didn't keep track of the original posts, but fasting the bird for >three days doesn't sound like the right way to go. better to >deny the bird the foods that it would eat readily at the morning >feeding (e.g., leave spinach, broccoli, beans, and fruit in the >dish duing the day.) that evening, you can check on the amounts >consumed and supplement with foods the bird eats more readily in >the evening (so it doesn't starve to death!). after a week or so, >i think you'll find the bird accepts the other foods...once they try >'em, they're hooked for life! We did not fast the bird for 3 days, it was around 36 hours. We have tried all the methods mentioned above for over a year. (on and off, not constantly. The bird is healthy. She eats her favorites like a horse. Has gained weight over that time. Yes, I'm paranoid about being jumped all over in case I leave out some detail!) She is not hooked on anything new. This entire excercise was really because we feel her diet is limited in variety and she is missing out. >i did catch a post that mentioned that eating something in front >of the bird makes it want to share it with you. you'd be amazed >how well that works too...the birds have a flocking instinct that >makes it hard for them to not eat while their mate's eating. >(cockatoo flocks even stretch left and right wings in perfect >synchronism!!) Absolutely true. Chantee and Zachary do everything together, many things in synch. Yes, they must eat together. Zachary will try everything. In fact, if it's in your mouth, so much the better. This behavior is NEVER imitated by Chantee. >don't forget to include calcium sources in the diet. cheese >is probably most readily accepted, but the casein isn't particularly >good for the crop. try a little cheese...also scrambled eggs >and chicken or rib bones (!) Zachary loves all that stuff. With chicken bones he knows to go right for the marrow. Amazing really! >(i'd be really suprised if a cockatoo didn't take scrambled eggs... >invite it to the table for breakfast...some folks grind in a little Well, be surprised. Chantee will come on the table with us ONLY if we're not eating! Unless I'm willing to drop my present career and study to be a vet and animal psychologist, I must rely on someone who knows more than I do. These two birds are like twins in many respects, yet there are differences so drastic they may as well be different types of birds. Of course a vet can make mistakes or just plain be wrong, the same as you or I could. What I rely on with this vet is his VARIED experience with birds. Just my two have shown there is no saying "Cockatoos are like this". They ain't "like" anything! Not even each other! Fred -- Fred Sieg | freds@ast.com -or- ...!uunet!legs!freds AST Research Inc. | Fax: (714) 727-9358 Tel: (714) 727-8465 If any opinions were expressed, they are my own and not those of my employer (who would NEVER express an opinion).
hubler@galaxy.lerc.nasa.gov (01/05/91)
In article <3186@legs.UUCP> freds@legs.UUCP (Fred Sieg) writes: > > > just about everything deleted > > >Absolutely true. Chantee and Zachary do everything together, many things >in synch. Yes, they must eat together. Zachary will try everything. In >fact, if it's in your mouth, so much the better. This behavior is NEVER >imitated by Chantee. > > >Fred > >-- >Fred Sieg | freds@ast.com -or- ...!uunet!legs!freds >AST Research Inc. | Fax: (714) 727-9358 Tel: (714) 727-8465 sounds like you have tried and persevered for a long time. I felt the above was worth a small comment. I used to let my orange wing and a conure take things from my mouth and pick my teeth (hope I didn't offend any squeamish types). Then I read that the human mouth harbors many gram negative bacteria that can be harmful to a bird so I no longer allowed that. I have noticed that many birds have a fascination with a person's mouth. I had fun, it was like putting the head in the lions mouth, only in reverse. I just thought it best to stop for their sake. I have been successful with making 'bird salads' and a corn bread mix for mine. Have you tried anything like this for yours? I take Jiffy Corn Bread mix and follow the directions with an increase in the water amount. I toss in the eggshells, and add whatever I may have in the kitchen including some (but not all) grated cheese, canned or cooked beans, frozen vegetables, chopped greens, liquid calcium or powdered kelp from the health food store, raisins, and other things I may have but don't come to mind now. I make about 4 or 5 boxes of this into a few loaves. My cockatiels go through this like mad when they are raising babies and my Amazons like it also. For bird salad I use a chopper to mince beets and carrots. Then I add chopped greens, raisins, nuts (**this gives them a BIG incentive to pick through it), frozen vegetables, etc. All my cages empty the bowl, though that doesn't mean every bird eats it. I also have some birds that love peanut butter on wheat bread. I certainly hope something here is of help to you. Dale Hubler -- *********************************************************************** Dale A. Hubler -- Sverdrup Technology -- (216) 977-7014 hubler@galaxy.lerc.nasa.gov ***********************************************************************