edm@verdix.com (Ed Matthews) (04/11/91)
Just going through my lists recently trying to make certain my world list is up-to-date. Ran into a couple of confusions that perhaps one of you will be able to help with. Two birds in question: one a gannet, the other a snipe. The gannet on my England list is Sula bassana, while our common Northern Gannet here in the States is Morus bassanus. The snipe on my Ireland list is Gallinago gallinago, while its counterpart on my ABA area list is Capella gallinago. Both pairs of birds look superficially similar to me -- similar enough to wonder if they have been reclassified. Can anyone tell me whether these are in fact dissimilar species? Thanks. -- Ed Matthews edm@verdix.com Verdix Corporation Headquarters (703) 378-7600 Chantilly, Virginia
tmc-ae@gmdzi.gmd.de (FA Jirka) (04/12/91)
edm@verdix.com (Ed Matthews) writes: >Just going through my lists recently trying to make certain my world list >is up-to-date. Ran into a couple of confusions that perhaps one of you >will be able to help with. Two birds in question: one a gannet, the other >a snipe. The gannet on my England list is Sula bassana, while our common >Northern Gannet here in the States is Morus bassanus. The snipe on my >Ireland list is Gallinago gallinago, while its counterpart on my ABA area >list is Capella gallinago. Both pairs of birds look superficially similar >to me -- similar enough to wonder if they have been reclassified. Can >anyone tell me whether these are in fact dissimilar species? Thanks. >-- >Ed Matthews edm@verdix.com >Verdix Corporation Headquarters (703) 378-7600 >Chantilly, Virginia Both species have a long history of being reclassified. In North America, Gannet has been moved to Morus as per AOU Checklist 37th Supplement (1989) ; Snipe has been Gallinago a long time. The following is straight from the computer version of the ABA checklist : 56 Northern Gannet Morus bassanus N 1 309 Common Snipe Gallinago gallinago N 1 The European lists I have speak of Sula bassana and Gallinago gallinago. I am aware of Capella but I think it's obsolete on both sides of the ocean. There is no recognized authority on world lists, officially, although most world listers stick to whatever James Clements decides. Any standard is better than no standard. Other differences you may encounter in Old World nomenclature (restricting myself to Holarctic birds) : Snow goose in genus Anser not Chen Great Skua (jaeger) in genus Stercorarius not Catharacta Sabine's Gull in genus Larus not Xema Gull-billed Tern in Gelochelidon not Sterna In total, I found more than 100 differences when comparing the AOU checklist with a Holarctic checklist which originated in Europe (K.H.Voous). >>>>> Please ignore the From: line. This is a guest account. Daan Sandee sandee@mimikri.gmd.de Thinking Machines Corporation Gesellschaft fuer Mathematik und Datenverarbeitung D-5205 Sankt Augustin, Germany Phone: +49 2241 142410
s30986u@kaira.hut.fi (Martin Helin) (04/12/91)
edm@verdix.com (Ed Matthews) writes:
*a snipe. The gannet on my England list is Sula bassana, while our common
*Northern Gannet here in the States is Morus bassanus. The snipe on my
*Ireland list is Gallinago gallinago, while its counterpart on my ABA area
*list is Capella gallinago. Both pairs of birds look superficially similar
*to me -- similar enough to wonder if they have been reclassified. Can
*anyone tell me whether these are in fact dissimilar species? Thanks.
I think they both are one species. The Capella family was changed to
Gallinago some 5 years ago.
Martin
Martin Helin Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Internet : mhe@otax.tky.hut.fi s30986u@kaira.hut.fi
UUCP : uunet!kaira.hut.fi!s30986uwwf@oz.plymouth.edu (Dr. Wavell Fogleman) (04/13/91)
In article <1991Apr11.120249.8804@verdix.com> edm@verdix.com (Ed Matthews) writes: >Just going through my lists recently trying to make certain my world list >is up-to-date. Ran into a couple of confusions that perhaps one of you >will be able to help with. Two birds in question: one a gannet, the other >a snipe. The gannet on my England list is Sula bassana, while our common >Northern Gannet here in the States is Morus bassanus. The snipe on my >Ireland list is Gallinago gallinago, while its counterpart on my ABA area >list is Capella gallinago. Both pairs of birds look superficially similar >to me -- similar enough to wonder if they have been reclassified. Can >anyone tell me whether these are in fact dissimilar species? Thanks. > Your Northern Gannets are the same bird. The AOU recently changed the Latin genus name to agree with the older, European one. Your Snipe are different. The European Snipe is not the same as our Common Snipe. You lose one and win one :) Wavell Fogleman >-- > >Ed Matthews edm@verdix.com >Verdix Corporation Headquarters (703) 378-7600 >Chantilly, Virginia
deby@cs.utwente.nl (Rolf de By) (04/13/91)
In article <1991Apr11.120249.8804@verdix.com>, edm@verdix.com (Ed Matthews) writes: |> Just going through my lists recently trying to make certain my world list |> is up-to-date. Ran into a couple of confusions that perhaps one of you |> will be able to help with. Two birds in question: one a gannet, the other |> a snipe. The gannet on my England list is Sula bassana, while our common |> Northern Gannet here in the States is Morus bassanus. The snipe on my |> Ireland list is Gallinago gallinago, while its counterpart on my ABA area |> list is Capella gallinago. Both pairs of birds look superficially similar |> to me -- similar enough to wonder if they have been reclassified. Can |> anyone tell me whether these are in fact dissimilar species? Thanks. Ed, they are the same species, but it seems that your American list holds somewhat old-fashioned Latin genus names (well, at least to me it seems, but I am european). The generally accepted list in Europe is that of Voous, which is slightly outdated but is accepted as a basis for taxonomic ordering as well as scientific naming. I haven't looked up things (my bird books being at home) but if my memory serves me well, the Common Snipe (Gallinago gallinago) has distinct subspecies in Europe and North-America, and there is a slight possibility that they may eventually become separate species. I remember having seen only one Snipe on the breeding grounds in North America (Algonquin NP, Ontario) and I must admit that at least their display flight and sound was completely different from its European congener. The sound I heard in Canada reminded me of a Tengmalm's Owl (Aegolius funereus), but I don't know whether that's the usual mating call. Over here there are two common sounds, one of them being made by the two outermost tail feathers (drumming) in a steep descent. By the way, some additional splits are on their way over here in Europe. The ones that come directly to my mind are Yellow-legged Gull Larus cachinnans (split from L. argentatus) (this species includes the Mediterranean michahellis group) Armenian Gull Larus armenicus (idem) (breeds in Turkey and vicinity, winters for instance in Israel) Water Pipit & Rock Pipit Anthus spinoletta & A. littoralis (over here Water Pipit is mountain species, Rock Pipit a coast species) Hume's Warbler Phylloscopus humei (split from P. inornatus) (the place of P. (inornatus) mandelli is unclear, inornatus is a regular but somewhat rare autumn bird, humei is much rarer with perhaps 20 or 30 records ever in western Europe (also in autumn); both breed in Central Asia, but inornatus much nearer) American & Lesser Golden Plover (this you will know better than me, I guess) and possibly others (but this is much less clear); the most important possible split to an American who is visiting Europe (or has visited Europe) is that of American Scoter Melanitta americana (possibly to be split from our Common Scoter (M. nigra)) In any case, the British are more conservative (as usual), and the above cases are therefore not generally agreed upon. Rolf -- Rolf A. de By Vakgroep Informatiesystemen Tel : (0)53--893753 Faculteit der Informatica b.g.g.: (0)53--893690 Universiteit Twente Fax : (0)53--339605 Postbus 217, 7500 AE Enschede Email : deby@cs.utwente.nl The Netherlands deby@henut5.bitnet
tmc-ae@gmdzi.gmd.de (FA Jirka) (04/15/91)
deby@cs.utwente.nl (Rolf de By) writes: >In article <1991Apr11.120249.8804@verdix.com>, edm@verdix.com (Ed Matthews) writes: >I haven't looked up things (my bird books being at home) but if my memory >serves me well, the Common Snipe (Gallinago gallinago) has distinct subspecies >in Europe and North-America, and there is a slight possibility that they may >eventually become separate species. ... The American subspecies used to be a separate species (Wilson's Snipe - the Latin escapes me) but was lumped with Common Snipe a long time ago. This lumping is independent of the change of the genus name from Capella to Gallinago (which is what started this discussion). >By the way, some additional splits are on their way over here in Europe. The >ones that come directly to my mind are >Yellow-legged Gull Larus cachinnans (split from L. argentatus) > (this species includes the Mediterranean michahellis group) Yellow-legged Gull is occasional on N.Am. East Coast, but I haven't heard what A.O.U. thinks. >Water Pipit & Rock Pipit Anthus spinoletta & A. littoralis > (over here Water Pipit is mountain species, Rock Pipit a coast species) A.O.U. (1989) has accepted the split-off of American Pipit (A. americana). Attu watchers, beware! no doubt A. littoralis turns up there occasionally. Actually, I was under the impression that both AOU and BOU had accepted the littoralis/spinoletta split. >American & Lesser Golden Plover > (this you will know better than me, I guess) The rumour us that A.O.U. WILL split those (I'm waiting impatiently - I got them both). Can anybody find out? - the Checklist Committee should have met in March, but I don't have an Email address. >and possibly others (but this is much less clear); the most important possible >split to an American who is visiting Europe (or has visited Europe) is that of >American Scoter Melanitta americana > (possibly to be split from our Common Scoter (M. nigra)) >In any case, the British are more conservative (as usual), and the above >cases are therefore not generally agreed upon. But the question remains, is the BOU making the decisions for the entire Western Palaearctic? No doubt that's what they think themselves ... Checking Voous's list (he's not British, by the way, I know), I find that he lumps the following Nearctic/Palaearctic species pairs : Great Egret (Casmerodius albus) - subsp of Common Egret, Egretta alba Black-vented Shearwater (Puffinus opistomelas) - subsp. of P.puffinus Black-necked Stilt (Himantopus mexicanus) - subsp of H. himantopus Least Tern (Sterna antillarum) - subsp of Little Tern, S. albifrons Brown Creeper (Certhia americana) - subsp of Treecreeper, C. familiaris So anyone birding both continents will have to decide which authority to follow. Voous also doesn't recognize recent North American splits, which is reasonable. I've only listed Holarctic species, or species pairs. >Rolf A. de By >Vakgroep Informatiesystemen Tel : (0)53--893753 >Faculteit der Informatica b.g.g.: (0)53--893690 >Universiteit Twente Fax : (0)53--339605 >Postbus 217, 7500 AE Enschede Email : deby@cs.utwente.nl >The Netherlands deby@henut5.bitnet >>>>> Please ignore the From: line. This is a guest account. Daan Sandee sandee@mimikri.gmd.de Thinking Machines Corporation Gesellschaft fuer Mathematik und Datenverarbeitung D-5205 Sankt Augustin, Germany Phone: +49 2241 142410
deby@cs.utwente.nl (Rolf de By) (04/17/91)
Daan Sandee writes: |> |> Yellow-legged Gull is occasional on N.Am. East Coast, but I haven't heard |> what A.O.U. thinks. |> This species seems hardly within the verdict of the A.O.U. They should simply follow what someone in Eurasia decides. But obviously, it's their choice whom to follow. |> |> But the question remains, is the BOU making the decisions for the entire |> Western Palaearctic? No doubt that's what they think themselves ... Taxonomic decisions are never made with the consent of all. With respect to this North America is in a much better position than Europe simply because it has fewer formal bodies. For the twitchers/listers amongst us such bodies are always too slow, lagging behind in years on the literature available. For listing purposes you just have to rely on a single checklist (Peters, Moore, or whatever) and augment for yourself as new literature comes along. Obviously, it is an immense task to follow all of them, and some good contacts are very helpful in identifying generally accepted (amongst field ornithologists, not amongst ?OU's) splits and lumps. |> Checking Voous's list (he's not British, by the way, I know), I find that |> he lumps the following Nearctic/Palaearctic species pairs : |> Great Egret (Casmerodius albus) - subsp of Common Egret, Egretta alba |> Black-vented Shearwater (Puffinus opistomelas) - subsp. of P.puffinus |> Black-necked Stilt (Himantopus mexicanus) - subsp of H. himantopus |> Least Tern (Sterna antillarum) - subsp of Little Tern, S. albifrons |> Brown Creeper (Certhia americana) - subsp of Treecreeper, C. familiaris What I know of general acceptance of the taxonomic status of these species (and I have to since I've seen all pairs except for the Shearwater) is that egret (in Europe usually named Egretta alba), stilt and creeper are considered conspecific, while the tern is a true split. I wouldn't be surprised about a split off for the Shearwater as we have a similar split off from P. puffinus in Europe (and which I forgot to mention in my last post): Yelkouan Shearwater Puffinus yelkouan (this is a Mediterranean shearwater occurring regularly off the coasts of western Europe in early autumn, e.g., Holland has a couple of records each year) |> |> So anyone birding both continents will have to decide which authority to |> follow. |> Voous also doesn't recognize recent North American splits, which is reasonable. |> I've only listed Holarctic species, or species pairs. |> |> Daan Sandee sandee@mimikri.gmd.de |> Thinking Machines Corporation |> Gesellschaft fuer Mathematik und Datenverarbeitung |> D-5205 Sankt Augustin, Germany Phone: +49 2241 142410 Rolf -- Rolf A. de By Vakgroep Informatiesystemen Tel : (0)53--893753 Faculteit der Informatica b.g.g.: (0)53--893690 Universiteit Twente Fax : (0)53--339605 Postbus 217, 7500 AE Enschede Email : deby@cs.utwente.nl The Netherlands deby@henut5.bitnet