joi@cbnewsc.att.com (joy.m.metcalf) (04/19/91)
In article <1991Apr18.150026.18512@NPIRS.Purdue.EDU> tfisher@NPIRS.Purdue.EDU (Tom Fisher) writes: >We have a pair of nesting Bluebirds. We also have many House >Sparrows (Weaver Finches) around. Both varieties compete for the ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ I've never heard of sparrows being called finches before. Are they in the same family? Aren't house sparrows often called "English sparrows"? An interesting tidbid I got from an ornathologist at Morton Arboretum: Both house sparrows and starlings were *purposely* introduced by the colonists because they wanted to make sure there were birds around to control the insect population. Joy Metcalf
rdmiller@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Ruth D Miller) (04/19/91)
In article <1991Apr19.133714.24381@cbnewsc.att.com> joi@iwtdv.att.com (joy.m.metcalf) writes: >I've never heard of sparrows being called finches before. Are they >in the same family? Aren't house sparrows often called "English sparrows"? > >An interesting tidbid I got from an ornathologist at Morton Arboretum: > >Both house sparrows and starlings were *purposely* introduced by the >colonists because they wanted to make sure there were birds around to >control the insect population. > The classification of house sparrows is (Ithink) still uncertain, but I think the powers that be are sure they are not sparrows. As my father (who grew up in England) says though, the word "sparrow" was INVENTED for the English House Sparrow! So we shoulc rename all the sparrows instead... On the introduction of starlings--a man in NYC (I think) wanted to have all the birds from Home in an exhibit and thus purposely released the European starling; I have heard he was responsible for the House Sparrow also. Certainly it had nothing to do with insect control. Ruth (I'd better add that the above is to the best of my knowledge; I'm not a world authority on all this.)
mjm@oliven.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Michael Mammoser) (04/20/91)
In article <1991Apr19.154930.15917@maverick.ksu.ksu.edu>, rdmiller@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Ruth D Miller) writes: > In article <1991Apr19.133714.24381@cbnewsc.att.com> joi@iwtdv.att.com (joy.m.metcalf) writes: > >An interesting tidbid I got from an ornathologist at Morton Arboretum: > > > >Both house sparrows and starlings were *purposely* introduced by the > >colonists because they wanted to make sure there were birds around to > >control the insect population. > > On the introduction of starlings--a man in NYC (I think) wanted to have > all the birds from Home in an exhibit and thus purposely released > the European starling; I have heard he was responsible for the House > Sparrow also. Certainly it had nothing to do with insect control. The Starling was introduced by a society (person?) that was interested in having all the birds mentioned in Shakespeare's works (of which the Starling is one) introduced in America. The House Sparrow was introduced in the 1850s after a couple of unsuccessful attempts and, I believe that I read a reference somewhere, its purpose was to control the Lynden? Moth. The House Sparrow is classified as being in the same family as the Old World weaver finches. Mike
dmark@acsu.buffalo.edu (David Mark) (04/20/91)
In article <1991Apr19.154930.15917@maverick.ksu.ksu.edu> rdmiller@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Ruth D Miller) writes: >In article <1991Apr19.133714.24381@cbnewsc.att.com> joi@iwtdv.att.com (joy.m.metcalf) writes: >>I've never heard of sparrows being called finches before. Are they >>in the same family? Aren't house sparrows often called "English sparrows"? >> >The classification of house sparrows is (Ithink) still uncertain, but >I think the powers that be are sure they are not sparrows. As my >father (who grew up in England) says though, the word "sparrow" was >INVENTED for the English House Sparrow! So we shoulc rename all >the sparrows instead... In fact, the 'House Sparrow', Passer domesticus, is the original sparrow. Some other species in Europe, such as (European) Tree Sparrow, and Rock Sparrow, are in the same family, Plocidae I believe. Some other 'Sparrows' in Africa and Asia are in that family. As are all the 'weaver finches' of Africa (hence the sparrows==weaver_finches claim). The new world birds that we call 'sparrow' are in a different family, Emberizidae, which now also includes the wood warblers (Parulinae), the orioles and blackbirds (Icterinae), the tanagers, honeycreepers, bananquits, etc. In old-world terminology, our 'sparrows' should be called 'Buntings'. Following the trend of Common Moorhen, American Kestrel, and Northern Harrier, we might see in the next decade 'White-crowned Bunting', 'Chipping Bunting', etc. David Mark dmark@sun.acsu.buffalo.edu
marcone@math.psu.edu (Alberto G. Marcone) (04/21/91)
In article <1991Apr19.154930.15917@maverick.ksu.ksu.edu> rdmiller@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Ruth D Miller) writes: > >On the introduction of starlings--a man in NYC (I think) wanted to have >all the birds from Home in an exhibit and thus purposely released >the European starling; I have heard he was responsible for the House >Sparrow also. Certainly it had nothing to do with insect control. > >Ruth >(I'd better add that the above is to the best of my knowledge; I'm not >a world authority on all this.) According to 'Birds of Pennsylvania' by Wakeley&Wakeley the starling was introduced in NYC in 1890 by a "well-meaning but misguided resident of that metropolis" who "undertook an expensive project to import to the United States all of the birds mentioned in the writings of Shakespeare." Apparently starlings are mentioned in Henry IV.... According to the same book, the house sparrow was introduced a couple of decades earlier. Alberto marcone@math.psu.edu