[rec.birds] INDOOR Re: Pet Macaw Questions / Combatting extinction?

pratt@blaze.rutgers.edu (Lorien Y. Pratt) (04/30/91)

Mikki Barry writes:
> 
>>     Hyacinth:    +Mellow,+Intelligent,+Puppy dog like temperment,
>>                  -Price
>
>The other - to a hyacinth is that they CHEW like crazy and CAN eat your house.  
>Another important thing to consider is that they are highly endangered, and 
>keeping one for a pet rather than breeding him/her may create many people who 
>will push you to breed your "child", thus losing many of the pet qualities you 
>desire in a bird.  There are more hyacinths in captivity than there are in the 
>wild.  

I am very interested in this idea, because I'm a bird watcher,
intrigued by the idea of owning a bird of my own, but full of guilt at
the thought of contributing to the unhappiness of an animal that is
meant to fly cooped up in my home.  Because of this, I've never really
considered birds as pets.  But here's what seems like a sound reason
that might offset this issue.  

Say I get a hyacinth Macaw (from a breeder of course) at some point in
my life (it would be at least a year from now).  Say I have a house
with a great big cage, like Mikki recommends, and I get a second Macaw
and have a hand at breeding them, and raising their babies.  I keep one
baby as a pet (hand feed it and all) and sell off the babies from the
adults.  Am I now a captive breeding program for an endangered species,
and am I thereby contributing to the long-term viability of this
magnificent bird?  If so, I think that this fact could offset any fears
I have (unfounded?) of the birds being ``unhappy'' outside of their
natural environments.

Even if all this is possible, I'd still have some questions though:

o  Are there other birds whose extinction might be avoided by people keeping
   them as pets?  Any North American species?  (what about licenses)?
o  Are there any efforts to re-release these kinds of birds back into the wild?
o  How hard is it to breed birds/how much of a commitment am I talking
   about?

Obviously, this is very long-term fantasizing, as I've never really seriously
considered the idea, but I'd like to hear any thoughts any of you (especially
Mikki) might have.
    --Lori
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
L. Y. Pratt                            	   Computer Science Department
pratt@paul.rutgers.edu                     Rutgers University
                                           Hill Center  
(908) 932-4634 (Hill Center office)        New Brunswick, NJ  08903, USA
(908) 846-4766 (home)

ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry) (05/01/91)

In article <Apr.29.14.43.06.1991.6672@blaze.rutgers.edu>, 
pratt@blaze.rutgers.edu (Lorien Y. Pratt) writes:
> I am very interested in this idea, because I'm a bird watcher,
> intrigued by the idea of owning a bird of my own, but full of guilt at
> the thought of contributing to the unhappiness of an animal that is
> meant to fly cooped up in my home.  Because of this, I've never really
> considered birds as pets.  But here's what seems like a sound reason
> that might offset this issue. 

My firm belief is that the only unhappy bird is a wild caught bird who had 
spent time flying free and was captured, stuffed in a crate where half of his 
cratemates died, then stuffed in a small cage in quarantine, then to a pet 
shop, then from home to home because people didn't realize what they were 
getting. 
> 
> Say I get a hyacinth Macaw (from a breeder of course) at some point in
> my life (it would be at least a year from now).  Say I have a house
> with a great big cage, like Mikki recommends, and I get a second Macaw
> and have a hand at breeding them, and raising their babies.  I keep one
> baby as a pet (hand feed it and all) and sell off the babies from the
> adults.  Am I now a captive breeding program for an endangered species,
> and am I thereby contributing to the long-term viability of this
> magnificent bird?  If so, I think that this fact could offset any fears
> I have (unfounded?) of the birds being ``unhappy'' outside of their
> natural environments.

Well, if it were that easy, they wouldn't be endangered.  Seriously!  Breeding 
birds is very unlike breeding cats and dogs.  It is very very difficult.  But, 
ok, let's suppose you were successful and your birds had young.  Here's your 
dilema.  If you take the chicks to hand feed, they will be suitable for the pet 
trade and will hopefully save a wild bird from being caught and caged.  The 
baby will know you as its parent and will want love and affection.  If 
released, he will eventually fly to a human for food, etc.  If you let the 
parents raise the bird, it could then be used as a breeder later (totally 
unafraid of humans most likely) or it could possible be released into the wild 
when the habitat is stabilized.

One of my big reasons for breeding birds is that I am keeping wild birds out of 
the pet trade.  I am also trying to perpetuate endangered species.  This is 
very rewarding to me.

> Even if all this is possible, I'd still have some questions though:
> 
> o  Are there other birds whose extinction might be avoided by people keeping
>    them as pets?  Any North American species?  (what about licenses)?

North American birds cannot be kept to be bred except under very special 
circumstances and yes, licenses are usually required.  

> o  Are there any efforts to re-release these kinds of birds back into the 
wild?

A few effort are underway to release parrots.  For example, there is a program 
for the release of Military Macaws.

> o  How hard is it to breed birds/how much of a commitment am I talking
>    about?

See above.  Lots of hard work.  Lots of heartbreak.  Lots of money to give them 
what they need.  I would not recommend it lightly.

stewartw@cognos.UUCP (Stewart Winter) (05/02/91)

In article <Apr.29.14.43.06.1991.6672@blaze.rutgers.edu> pratt@blaze.rutgers.edu (Lorien Y. Pratt) writes:
>Say I get a hyacinth Macaw (from a breeder of course) at some point in
>my life (it would be at least a year from now).  Say I have a house
>with a great big cage, like Mikki recommends, and I get a second Macaw
>and have a hand at breeding them, and raising their babies.  I keep one
>baby as a pet (hand feed it and all) and sell off the babies from the
>adults.  Am I now a captive breeding program for an endangered species,
>and am I thereby contributing to the long-term viability of this
>magnificent bird?  If so, I think that this fact could offset any fears
>I have (unfounded?) of the birds being ``unhappy'' outside of their
>natural environments.

    Basically, you would indeed be contributing in a very positive
way.  If you consider that the habitat destruction (as well as
poaching pressures) is going to see these birds disappear from the
wild, then until we can re-establish their environment, captive programmes
are the only solution.  Given that these animals are desired by people
as pets (and do make good pets), it seems reasonable to releave zoos of
the burden of maintaining these species.

>Even if all this is possible, I'd still have some questions though:
>o  Are there other birds whose extinction might be avoided by people keeping
>   them as pets?  Any North American species?  (what about licenses)?

   Leaving aside North American species, there are many birds other than
psitticines which are endangered. However, other than finches, there is
virtually no pet-market (which makes non-zoo captive breeding programmes
viable).  Also, many of these birds are extremely difficult to breed and
really require the expertise available at a zoo (or a lifetime of
dedication).

>o  Are there any efforts to re-release these kinds of birds back into the wild?

   The problem of course is where to release them.  I think that if
countries like Costa Rica can 'save their rainforest', then they could
be sent back.  Unless native populations have dwindled to almost nothing
they would repopulate.

>o  How hard is it to breed birds/how much of a commitment am I talking
>   about?

    I'll avoid the obvious stuff (food,sanitation,space,noise) and get
to some meatier issues.  Breeding is part science/part art.  Two birds
thrust together will not necessarily be a good pair.  We have a pair
of B&Gs that hatched 3 of 4 eggs and fed all 3 babies for 3 weeks.  This
is not the norm for captive macaws, BUT these birds were in a zoo where
they picked each others as mates.  The success of a pair really depends
on how well they like each other.  Keep in mind that these are intelligent
animals who have preferences.  Few people have the resources to
do selective breeding (where the birds choose their own mates) with large
parrots.  So you must prepare yourself for many failures.

   Also, you must provide the birds with environment that they need.
Most like quiet, but some like noise.  Some pairs need the stimulation
of other birds; some do not.  Temperature, light, humidity, food variety
are often key players in triggering breeding and hitting the combination
for one pair may not do anything for the pair sitting beside them.

   Lastly, you must consider the risks.  Large parrots are expensive,
and you must be able to accept the possibility that one of the birds
may become unsuitable for breeding (illness, bad habits like kills mate,
sterile, etc) and that your purchase may never yield anything.  Most
breeders work their way up to large parrots or are wealthy enough to
buy more than one pair (if need be)  (I wish I was in the latter
category rather than the former).

   hope this helps
      Stewart

-- 
Stewart Winter               Cognos Incorporated   S-mail: P.O. Box 9707
VOICE: (613) 738-1338 x3830  FAX: (613) 738-0002           3755 Riverside Drive
UUCP: stewartw%cognos.uucp@ccs.carleton.ca                 Ottawa, Ontario
The bird of the day is .... Illiger's Macaw                CANADA  K1G 3Z4