mcolthea@sunb.mqcc.mq.oz.au (Max Coltheart) (05/29/91)
In the (Northern) late summer and fall I will be in a lot of different places and would like to see some birds, so I'd appreciate some NetHelp. Here are the places: 1. Tuscany (last 2 weeks August) 2. Cambridge UK (Sept-Oct) 3. Baltimore (2 weeks) then several places I'll visit only for a day or two so could only use highly accessible bird sites: 4. Atlanta, Tucson, San Francisco, San Diego, Los Angeles. Thanks in advance (please email advice direct to me). Max Coltheart
sandee@sun8.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) (05/29/91)
In article <969@macuni.mqcc.mq.oz> mcolthea@sunb.mqcc.mq.oz.au (Max Coltheart) writes: >In the (Northern) late summer and fall I will be in a lot of >different places and would like to see some birds, so I'd >appreciate some NetHelp. Here are the places: > >1. Tuscany (last 2 weeks August) >2. Cambridge UK (Sept-Oct) For Europe, you can start with Gooders : Where to watch birds in Britain and Europe. It lists a few sites per country, and I wouldn't know offhand about Italy. Otherwise, I doubt you will find anything documented on Italy. Italians don't look at birds, they shoot them. Tuscany in August is hot and silent, but you can get up in the mountains and get Rock Thrush and Alpine Swift and other nice birds. For Britain, I strongly recommend Redman&Harrap, Bird-finding guide to Britain. Best bird-finding guide I know. Autumn (as they call it over there) is excellent for birding but the weather will be lousy. Most of England is within reach of a weekend trip so you'll be able to see a lot. Don't know where you would get either book from Australia. Daan Sandee sandee@scri.fsu.edu Supercomputer Computations Research Institute Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 (904) 644-7045
marcone@math.psu.edu (Alberto G. Marcone) (05/30/91)
In article <3078@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> sandee@sun8.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) writes: > >I doubt you will find anything documented on Italy. Italians >don't look at birds, they shoot them. > >Daan Sandee sandee@scri.fsu.edu >Supercomputer Computations Research Institute >Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 (904) 644-7045 Being Italian I felt I need to say something about this. It is true that activities like birdwatching are far less widespread in Italy than in most other countries (I myself became a birdwatcher in the USA) but the sensibility of Italians about environmental problems is steadily on the rise. Daan refers explicitly to hunting but probably does not know the widespread opposition to hunting in Italy: last year there was a referendum aimed at virtually abolishing hunting in Italy and (if I recall this correctly) about 90% of the ballots cast were against hunting. Unfortunately less than 50% of the voters cast their votes and so the referendum did not work [this is widely attributable to the lobbying of the weapon industry and the hunting associations, which managed to split the referendum from the local elections and hold it at the beginning of summer with as little publicity as possible]. I think that on this the gap between the sensibility of the average Italian citizen and the political system is particularly wide (even for Italian standards): hunters are a small group very well organized and (for the moment) they have managed, resorting to all means, to avoid being outlawed, as the Italian ecological situation I think warrants. Since this is not trial.soc.culture.italian I go back to my point saying that when I moved to the USA three years ago I was surprised at the amount of social approval that hunting has in this country: the New York Times has a weekly column on hunting, but no Italian newspaper would publish anything like that, because it knows that it will be heavily boycotted (and few people will read it, anyway). I am sending directly to the original poster a few references I have for birding in Italy. This wasn't intended to be offensive for anyone: we should just be careful to avoid reasoning by stereotypes... Bye, Alberto marcone@math.psu.edu
sandee@sun8.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) (05/30/91)
In article <$3aHs_ph@cs.psu.edu> marcone@math.psu.edu (Alberto G. Marcone) writes: >In article <3078@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> sandee@sun8.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) writes: >> >>I doubt you will find anything documented on Italy. Italians >>don't look at birds, they shoot them. >> >>Daan Sandee sandee@scri.fsu.edu >>Supercomputer Computations Research Institute >>Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 (904) 644-7045 > >Being Italian I felt I need to say something about this. It is true >that activities like birdwatching are far less widespread in Italy >than in most other countries (I myself became a birdwatcher in the USA) >but the sensibility of Italians about environmental problems is >steadily on the rise. Daan refers explicitly to hunting but probably >does not know the widespread opposition to hunting in Italy: last year >there was a referendum aimed at virtually abolishing hunting in Italy >and (if I recall this correctly) about 90% of the ballots cast were >against hunting. Unfortunately less than 50% of the voters cast their >votes and so the referendum did not work ... I apologize to the Italian people for my off-hand remark about Italians shooting birds. I knew of the anti-hunting referendum being defeated for technical reasons (thanks for reminding me of the details), and was thus aware that the bird-killing aspect of Italian culture was followed by only a minority of Italians. I should explain that I write from the perspective of a Western European, and I am concerned about the future of migrant songbirds in my home country (The Netherlands). One of several problems they have is the wholesale slaughter along the migration route in Southern Europe, with Italy being the main offender (France running a close second). >Since this is not trial.soc.culture.italian I go back to my point >saying that when I moved to the USA three years ago I was surprised >at the amount of social approval that hunting has in this country ... Absolutely. If you want to point out that hunting is more socially acceptable in the U.S. than it is in Italy, you may well be right. But I never heard of U.S. hunters shooting at migrant songbirds. (They do shoot at bald eagles and other endangered species, though, both accidentally and on purpose. Last year, a hunter shot a whooping crane. He thought it was a snow goose, he said. No doubt the refuge people told him he'd just eliminated one percent of the world population). >I am sending directly to the original poster a few references I >have for birding in Italy. I, too, would be interested, although it is unlikely I will be birding in Italy in the near future (but not impossible ; to confuse the situation a bit more, I am currently physically located in Paris, France, where I have Internet access but no Usenet access. Two weeks ago, I was in the French Alps looking for Blue Rock Thrush and such, without much success). What I would like to know is the extent of birdwatching (to use the most general term) in Italy. Is there any organization? any document- ation? >This wasn't intended to be offensive for anyone: we should just >be careful to avoid reasoning by stereotypes... Absolutely. Which is why I apologize. > >Bye, >Alberto marcone@math.psu.edu Daan Sandee sandee@asterix.ipgp.jussieu.fr Thinking Machines Corporation Institut de Physique du Globe 75252 Paris France Phone 011 33 1 4427 2415
marcone@math.psu.edu (Alberto G. Marcone) (05/31/91)
In article <3093@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> sandee@sun8.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) writes: >What I would like to know is the extent of birdwatching (to use the >most general term) in Italy. Is there any organization? any document- >ation? > >Daan Sandee sandee@asterix.ipgp.jussieu.fr >Thinking Machines Corporation >Institut de Physique du Globe >75252 Paris France Phone 011 33 1 4427 2415 As I mentioned in my previous posting I became a birdwatcher after moving to the USA, so I never actually birded in Italy. I'll be back there (at least temporarily) from next September and I'll try to make up. The main birding organization in Italy is called LIPU. The address of their main office is: Lega Italiana Protezione Uccelli vicolo san Tiburzio 5 43100 PARMA tel: +39-521-233414 For the publications I am looking at the bibliography of my (Italian- produced) field guide to European birds: I cannot find any 'Where to find birds in Italy" title but maybe Daan can be interested by "Atlante degli Uccelli delle Alpi Italiane" (Atlas of the birds of the Italian Alps) by Pierandrea Brichetti, Ramperto Ed., Brescia, 1987. Alberto Marcone marcone@math.psu.edu
misan@ra.abo.fi (Annika Forsten DC) (05/31/91)
In article <3093@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> sandee@sun8.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) writes: > both accidentally and on purpose. Last year, a hunter shot a whooping > crane. He thought it was a snow goose, he said. No doubt the refuge > people told him he'd just eliminated one percent of the world population). Is it legal to shoot Snow Geese? > >I am sending directly to the original poster a few references I > >have for birding in Italy. > I, too, would be interested, although it is unlikely I will be birding in > Italy in the near future (but not impossible ; to confuse the situation Please send a copy to me too, if it is not too much trouble, I collect site information which I distribute to others as well as use myself. annika forsten, finland