[rec.birds] Cdn Parrot Symposium: Orenstein Speech

stewartw@cognos.UUCP (Stewart Winter) (06/10/91)

First summary (as promised) of Canadian Parrot Symposium:

Why Aviculturalists Should Support Regulation of the Wild Bird Trade
   by Ron Orenstein, Project Director, Internation Wildlife Coalition

-----------------

  Mr. Orenstein started his talk by presenting facts that support his 
belief that trade in most birds will be elimiated by around 1996 with 
some exceptions for zoos.  (References to 2 bills before congress, in 
Europe, and at IUCN (World Conservation Union)).  His talk was aimed
at convincing aviculturalists to support these efforts and offered
proof that they would be good for us.

  Mr. Orenstein stated that the pet trade (through PIJAC) and
aviculturalists have been opposed to stopping the bird trade, and
have been highly emotional in their treatment of most proposals
regarding it.  These reactions have damaged the credibility of
aviculturalists within the conservation community.  Aviculturalists
must learn the diffence between attempted control of wild bird
trade (which would permit "managed import of small number of birds
that may be needed to establish or bolster captive gene pools") and 
control of aviculture (something only supported by fringe conservation
groups).

  His arguments against the wild bird trade (as it now exists) are
that it is wastefule and inhumane, that it reduces wild populations,
that it does not contribute sustantial income for local people, and that
there exists no proof of viability of sustainable wild bird trade.
The bird trade is practiced primarily in pristine habitats and "birds
disappear ... long before the habitat itself is threatened."  None of
these are "criticisms of responsible aviculture."

  He then suggested that some parrot breeders are finding it difficult
to compete with the wild bird trade (in terms of selling babies) and
cited an editorial in the Pionus Breeders Associations Newsletter.  He
went on to state that when a species is readily available (wild caught)
that less success is obtained in domestic breeding (because less effort
is applied).

  He went on to disuss the need for increased regulation.  He stated
that the current trade mechanisms (including CITES) were ineffective.
For example, in 1984 American records show 4820 birds exported to
Canada, and Canadian records show 587 birds imported from the United
States.  CITES II in particular has had little impact on smuggling.
(side note, Canada is now preparing legislation to permit it to deal
much better with controlling CITES listed species).  He suggested that
the "most effective way to improve enforcement would be an outright
ban on their [birds] import except under very special, carefully
controlled cirumstances."  "To be truly effective, though, a trade
ban must be international in scope."  He referred to a study by
Laura Simon that shows that the New York state law banning sale of
wild-caught birds had not been detrimental to the pet trade.  [sjw:
I think Gary Lilienthal had strong opposing view to this statement.]

  Regulation is coming and a "knee-jerk opposition to it will mean that
your views are not likely to be heard" and will be "seen by conservations
as self-serving."  Input into regulation bills could be important.  For
example, "I undestand that a bill introduced in Michigan, seeking to
restrict ownership of certain species of pet birds, actually sought to
differentiate for that purpose among colour morphs [colour mutations] of
lovebirds.  Ignorant drafting [of regulations] helps nobody."  Aviculturalists
are missing out on opportunities to help save rare parrots because they are
not trusted by the conservation community (example of Puerto Rican Parrot
was cited.) He argues that aviculturalists should be active in upholding
the law (whether they approve of it or not), and reporting and boycotting
unscrupulous dealers and importers.

   Aviculturalists should work actively within breeding consortiums 
(where personal owernship of the bird would be illegal).  "Those who can
help save rare species are trustees for all of us and should act accordingly."

---------------------------

  This summarizes most of his points.  It was a rather lengthy talk
and so some stuff has been chopped down quite a bit, but I think the
general idea comes across.  Personally, I think he makes a lot of good
points and I support the idea of a ban provided that it is not
beyond the patience of a small experienced breeder to go through the
process required to obtain an endangered bird.  Also, I imagine a great
deal of trouble in showing proof of domestic breeding (gene tests would
work, but they are very expensive).  But I think it is abundantly clear
that 3rd world countries do not have the resources to police their
wildlife resources, and that policework will have to be done in the
'target' countries.

  I'll try to write up Gary Lilienthal's talk next weekend ... it is
a bit shorter and the AFA certainly holds a more moderate position
that Mr. Orenstein.

  Stewart

  
-- 
Stewart Winter               Cognos Incorporated   S-mail: P.O. Box 9707
VOICE: (613) 738-1338 x3830  FAX: (613) 738-0002           3755 Riverside Drive
UUCP: stewartw%cognos.uucp@ccs.carleton.ca                 Ottawa, Ontario
The bird of the day is .... Green-Cheeked Conure           CANADA  K1G 3Z4

ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry) (06/11/91)

In article <9718@cognos.UUCP>, stewartw@cognos.UUCP (Stewart Winter) writes:

[pertinent comments by speaker deleted....thanks for typing that in, Stewart]

>   I'll try to write up Gary Lilienthal's talk next weekend ... it is
> a bit shorter and the AFA certainly holds a more moderate position
> that Mr. Orenstein.

Unfortunately, in my mind, the AFA position is unworkable because it calls for 
a gradual phase out of birds from the pet trade over a 5 year period.  I don't 
believe we have that much time to spare.  The habitats are being destroyed NOW.

Mikki Barry

kdb@intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (06/11/91)

In article <9718@cognos.UUCP>, stewartw@cognos.UUCP (Stewart Winter) writes:
> Aviculturalists
> must learn the diffence between attempted control of wild bird
> trade (which would permit "managed import of small number of birds
> that may be needed to establish or bolster captive gene pools") and 
> control of aviculture (something only supported by fringe conservation
> groups).

Cool, as an Aviculturalist I agree that bird importation HAS to be stopped.  
However, I also believe that small numbers of birds need to be imported to help 
keep the genitic pool diversified, and help to establish captive breeding 
programs, not just for the pet trade.  I also believe that what the US and 
other countries ought to do is establish accredidation for "certified breeders" 
and allow ONLY those (hey I don't even think that ALL ZOO's should be allowed 
into this program) to "purchase" breeding stock that would be brought in every 
other year.  The high cost of bringing these birds in properly one to a travel 
cage, correctly feed, quarentined, etc. should be passed along to the purchaser.

This would allow new breeding stock to be brought into countries, and keep it 
humane.  On the other end, capture stations should sex birds and test for 
overall health and fertility.  Then ONLY those birds would be brought over.  A 
quota system would have to be put into place based on various factors such as 
locally available habitat, number in the wild, etc..  Once a species was 
established in the importing country imports would be dropped to once every 
five years (or so).

Sorry for the terseness of this note, but that's my idea in a nutshell.  I 
believe that this would work, even for countries who now allow NO exportation.  
This would keep the population in the wild, and help establish a captive 
population which could be tapped at some point to reestablish wild populations 
if we as a species every figures out that we don't need to rape every acre of 
land on this world.  Oh, any "profits" from the sales of breeders could be 
directly funnelled back to the exporting country earmarked for use in helping 
study, manage, and preserve the wild flocks.

Well that's my two cents.


Kurt Baumann                  703.709.9890
InterCon Systems Corp.   Creators of fine TCP/IP products for
                                       the Macintosh

stewartw@cognos.UUCP (Stewart Winter) (06/12/91)

In article <2853E76D.2B5D@intercon.com> ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry) writes:
>[pertinent comments by speaker deleted....thanks for typing that in, Stewart]

   Just happy to see it's been read.

>Unfortunately, in my mind, the AFA position is unworkable because it calls for 
>a gradual phase out of birds from the pet trade over a 5 year period.  I don't 
>believe we have that much time to spare.  The habitats are being destroyed NOW.

   The rational behind it (as I have heard both AFA and PIJAC (specifically
Mark Hagen) reps suggest) is that gradual phase out gives aviculturalists
time to import birds which are not endangered (yet) and haven't had much
attention paid to them by aviculturalists because of the high import availability.
Good examples are some of the small conures (like Peach-Fronts and Green Cheeked)
which aren't that easy to find (in Canada at least).  Many finches fit into
the same category.  Most of the more 'prized' species are available in sufficient
numbers that it is not required.

   Also, there has been some recognition of late the many of the 'regional
subspecies' of some birds (like say military macaws) hasn't had nearly enough
attention paid to it, and that repeated breeding across subspecies is
starting to cause problems.  The 5 year phase-out would give time to obtain
known sub-species to set up proper breeding programs (again with militaries,
I think it is the central american subspecies as opposed to the bolivian
which is no where near as endangered).

   Problems - you bet.  Pet trade will probably continue as before (although
I'm not clear on the phasing out details).  Aviculturalists may not really
avail themselves of the opportunity presented (for example, I personally would 
like to get a hold of a couple pairs of genetically different Peach-Front 
conures, but, like many breeders,  I *hate* dealing with importers).


  Stewart





-- 
Stewart Winter               Cognos Incorporated   S-mail: P.O. Box 9707
VOICE: (613) 738-1338 x3830  FAX: (613) 738-0002           3755 Riverside Drive
UUCP: stewartw%cognos.uucp@ccs.carleton.ca                 Ottawa, Ontario
The bird of the day is .... Green-Cheeked Conure           CANADA  K1G 3Z4

stewartw@cognos.UUCP (Stewart Winter) (06/12/91)

In article <2853F31E.2CEA@intercon.com> kdb@intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) writes:
>However, I also believe that small numbers of birds need to be imported to help 
>keep the genetic pool diversified, and help to establish captive breeding

   I agree ... the proposals seem to allow for this, but I'm dubious about
the ability of 'small' breeders (like myself) to become involved in this
(outside of a consortium).  As an example, almost every Princess of Wales
parakeet I've seen has fragile health caused by inbreeding - we could use
genetic diversity, but of course it can not be had (although I fully respect
Australia's right to make that decision and I am in no way suggesting that
I disagree with their tough stance).

>programs, not just for the pet trade.  I also believe that what the US and 
>other countries ought to do is establish accredidation for "certified breeders"

   I'm curious about the kind of standards you would use to establish
AND MAINTAIN the accredation.  I simply doubt the ability of our government
(Canada) at least to be able to do this.  These programs cost money and
I wonder how well they would work.  (This topic is worth a discussion on
its own, but I think we best put 'INDOOR' in front of it)

>(hey I don't even think that ALL ZOO's should be allowed into this program)

   I agree ... not all zoos have the expertise to do this work.

>This would allow new breeding stock to be brought into countries, and keep it 
>humane.  On the other end, capture stations should sex birds and test for 
>overall health and fertility.

  Costs money to set this kind of thing up and requires a level of sophisticated
equipment not really available in many of the originating countries.

>Sorry for the terseness of this note, but that's my idea in a nutshell.  I 
>believe that this would work, even for countries who now allow NO exportation.

   The catch is that the process has to be carefully controlled - single
departure point - single arrival point; or we can't tell the good guys from
the bad guys.  This means that the commercial profits end up in a small 
number of hands.  While I don't mind seeing one responsible importer be
the beneficiary, I imagine infighting within the 'industry' would stop
it from ever happening (hope I'm wrong.)

>This would keep the population in the wild, and help establish a captive 
>population which could be tapped at some point to reestablish wild populations 
>if we as a species every figures out that we don't need to rape every acre of 
>land on this world.

   Re-releasing and re-establishing wild populations is very difficult.
(I wrote a long paragraph on this about a month ago).  It's certainly a
worthy goal, but we don't yet know whether or not it can be achieved.

>Oh, any "profits" from the sales of breeders could be 
>directly funnelled back to the exporting country earmarked for use in helping 
>study, manage, and preserve the wild flocks.

   It could be, although, I'm not sure what benevolent North American
company would do this (what cynicism).  If you looked at what amount
of profits pet stores, importers, etc., divert to proven wildlife
projects, I'm sure you'd discover that it's quite small ... not a lot
of longterm thinking going on by these folks yet.

  Stewart
-- 
Stewart Winter               Cognos Incorporated   S-mail: P.O. Box 9707
VOICE: (613) 738-1338 x3830  FAX: (613) 738-0002           3755 Riverside Drive
UUCP: stewartw%cognos.uucp@ccs.carleton.ca                 Ottawa, Ontario
The bird of the day is .... Green-Cheeked Conure           CANADA  K1G 3Z4