ammrk@swbatl.sbc.com (Mike R. Kraml) (04/07/90)
In article <21863@bellcore.bellcore.com> karn@jupiter.bellcore.com (Phil R. Karn) writes: >In article <1798@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> tech@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Richard Loken) writes: >>This question has been asked, and I wasn't interested at the time. >> >>Is there any software around? I know that there is a version of tcp/ip some >>where and I understand Phil Karn wrote his eary stuff on CP/M. Does somebody >>have the early Karn package? Assuming it exists of course. >> >>I sort of hope there isn't any, then I will have to write some. Build an >>interface and shoot for 56k :) > >Yes, my code did indeed begin life on CP/M, specifically the Xerox 820. >But this was five years ago, and much has happened in the meantime to PC >clone pricing and availability to make me wonder why anybody would still >be interested in CP/M. With XT clone boards having bottomed out at $60 >or so, and with a well-established and highly competitive supplier network >supporting PC technology, why bother with Z-80s and CP/M? I just don't see >the point. > >Phil Well Phil, I too have a desire to run a tcp/ip package on my cpm system. My reasons are: A. I have a Televideo TS802H (10 meg hard drive) still in excellent condition and I can't think of a better use for it. B. I have invested several thousand dollars in my current development system and can't afford to let the thing run day and night for packet. C. I have no real desire to own a pc clone at any price. So, if you do still have some CPM code laying around that would run on an old CPM box I am sure a lot of those good old CPM boxes cound use the work out. Thanks, and 73, Mike WQ0N -- ============================================================================= Mike Kraml - Manager-Separations MECHANIZATION - SWBT - (The Techies) UUCP: {uunet, bellcore, texbell}...!swbatl!slims!ammrk =============================================================================
dave@compnect.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe) (04/10/90)
In article <21863@bellcore.bellcore.com>, karn@jupiter..bellcore.com (Phil R. Karn) writes: > In article <1798@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> tech@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Richard Loken) writes: > >This question has been asked, and I wasn't interested at the time. > > > >Is there any software around? I know that there is a version of tcp/ip some > >where and I understand Phil Karn wrote his eary stuff on CP/M. Does somebody > >have the early Karn package? Assuming it exists of course. > > Yes, my code did indeed begin life on CP/M, specifically the Xerox 820. > But this was five years ago, and much has happened in the meantime to PC > clone pricing and availability to make me wonder why anybody would still > be interested in CP/M. With XT clone boards having bottomed out at $60 > or so, and with a well-established and highly competitive supplier network > supporting PC technology, why bother with Z-80s and CP/M? I just don't see > the point. Phil, maybe he likes it! I have a Molecular Mod. 9 in my little room with 2 Seiko 8610's nearby. All operational, all (gasp) CP-MP/M or N-Star and all multi-user. Nice machines, fun to hack on and just play with. There is LOTS I'd like to find for these 2 (Seiko and Molecular) machines as well. Also have a PC next to the Seiko's. The Seiko's are more fun. I'd like to find a terminal program that will run on the Seiko's 8086. Maybe even something for the Mole's 8080. Maybe you don't see the point now but lots of us still like to play around with admittedly older but sometimes more intriguing systems. BTW, if anyone DOES have any term program that'll run on either of these 'old technology' :-) machines, I'll be happy to hear from you. *>> Dave <<* [------: Dave Ratcliffe :---------:---: UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!compnect!dave :----] : : The Data Factory BBS : : : Data: (717)657-4997 - (717)657-4992 : [.................................:...........................................]
payne@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Andrew Payne) (04/10/90)
In article <1310@swbatl.sbc.com> ammrk@swbatl.UUCP (Mike R. Kraml) writes: >In article <21863@bellcore.bellcore.com> karn@jupiter.bellcore.com (Phil R. Karn) writes: >>clone pricing and availability to make me wonder why anybody would still >>be interested in CP/M. With XT clone boards having bottomed out at $60 ^^^ This item joggled my memory about a question I've been meaning to ask for a while. What's the smallest PC system configuration you can get away with? I had in mind: motherboard, drive controller, drive, power supply, and any necessary packet I/O boards. No display card, display, keyboard. Motivation being setting up a dedicated packet switch. It sure would be cheaper than outfitting a full system and would be less power hungry. I know my BIOS would balk right away at no display and keyboard, but I was wondering if anyone had tried such a configuration? Any comments appreciated. -- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Andrew C. Payne, N8KEI UUCP: ...!cornell!batcomputer!payne INTERNET: payne@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu
jta@hydra.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Jon T. Adams) (04/10/90)
In article <10080@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> payne@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Andrew Payne) writes: >In article <1310@swbatl.sbc.com> ammrk@swbatl.UUCP (Mike R. Kraml) writes: >>In article <21863@bellcore.bellcore.com> karn@jupiter.bellcore.com (Phil R. Karn) writes: >>>clone pricing and availability to make me wonder why anybody would still >>>be interested in CP/M. With XT clone boards having bottomed out at $60 > ^^^ > > This item joggled my memory about a question I've been meaning to >ask for a while. What's the smallest PC system configuration you can get >away with? I had in mind: motherboard, drive controller, drive, power >supply, and any necessary packet I/O boards. No display card, display, >keyboard. > Motivation being setting up a dedicated packet switch. It sure >would be cheaper than outfitting a full system and would be less power >hungry. > I know my BIOS would balk right away at no display and keyboard, but >I was wondering if anyone had tried such a configuration? >... >Andrew C. Payne, N8KEI UUCP: ...!cornell!batcomputer!payne Our group in the Los Angeles / Southern California area has been building up low-cost PCs for packet switching nodes for the last year or so. Being in SoCal, the land of the cheap clone and 100000000000000000 Chinese computer vendors, there's quite a good selection of components at cheap prices. And, if the stuff doesn't work right, the vendors are usually local. Anyway, a 10MHz XT mother board w/ 0k RAM can be had for as little as $53; I've even seen a few 12MHz boards for $50, but that's a rarity. RAM costs about $1.70 per chip for 256-10 stuff, sometimes a bit more. Nine of those get you the minimum 256k RAM; eighteen are preferable. Power supplies new are $25 to $35; an old (but fully working) 65 watt supply may be as little as $10. Cases are 10 to 20 bucks, new maybe 25. Monochrome boards are 15 to 20. Dual port serial cards (if you plan on using your standard external TNC2 modem) are as little as $10 with one port stuffed, or 18 to 20 with both ports stuffed. Most BIOSes that I have seen don't require a keyboard for proper operation; the majority of them will beep and imform you of a system error but will merrily go onward and continue to boot. If you set the switches on the motherboard for an EGA video display, the AMI BIOSes (at least) will happily work without a display board. So, let's add up what it would cost (on the average ) for a very basic PC if purchased on any given Saturday at the Chinese computer Show. 10MHz XT board w/BIOS and 0k RAM : $58 256k RAM : $19 Power Supply and Case : $40 Dual-Port Serial Card : $19 total : $136 Oh, add six bucks for the admission fee; add a few bucks for gas and parking, and driving time... Then, if you want me to get this stuff for you, add my commission and the total will be about $35,000 @:)... Adios and 73 - Jon -- Jon Trent Adams, NW6H | "Amateur Radio isn't Everything; JTA@hydra.jpl.nasa.gov | It's the ONLY thing..." - JTA These are just OPINIONS, ok?!? | Ladies! >Single homeowner w/convertible< "Shove it into RUN-8 and we'll see what this baby can do!" - JTA
tech@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Richard Loken) (04/11/90)
From article <21863@bellcore.bellcore.com>, by karn@jupiter..bellcore.com (Phil R. Karn): > Yes, my code did indeed begin life on CP/M, specifically the Xerox 820. > But this was five years ago, and much has happened in the meantime to PC > clone pricing and availability to make me wonder why anybody would still > be interested in CP/M. With XT clone boards having bottomed out at $60 > or so, and with a well-established and highly competitive supplier network > supporting PC technology, why bother with Z-80s and CP/M? I just don't see > the point. > > Phil Because I own a CP/M box. Because I like to see how how much can be done with 64k and 4MHz. Because I don't like 80xx boxes. Because I feel like it. Because this is a hobby and economic justification is irrelevant. ********* 73 ********** Richard Loken VE6BSV . **** .. **** Athabasca University .... **** Athabasca, Alberta Canada ..........**** tech@cs.AthabascaU.CA {alberta|decwrl}!atha!tech
cs2591aq@carina.unm.edu (aNk1ez) (04/11/90)
In article <519@compnect.UUCP> dave@compnect.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe) writes: >In article <21863@bellcore.bellcore.com>, karn@jupiter..bellcore.com (Phil R. Karn) writes: >> In article <1798@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> tech@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Richard Loken) writes: >> >This question has been asked, and I wasn't interested at the time. >> > >> >Is there any software around? I know that there is a version of tcp/ip some >> >where and I understand Phil Karn wrote his eary stuff on CP/M. Does somebody >> >have the early Karn package? Assuming it exists of course. >> >> Yes, my code did indeed begin life on CP/M, specifically the Xerox 820. >> But this was five years ago, and much has happened in the meantime to PC >> clone pricing and availability to make me wonder why anybody would still >> be interested in CP/M. With XT clone boards having bottomed out at $60 >> or so, and with a well-established and highly competitive supplier network >> supporting PC technology, why bother with Z-80s and CP/M? I just don't see >> the point. > >Phil, maybe he likes it! I have a Molecular Mod. 9 in my little room with 2 >Seiko 8610's nearby. All operational, all (gasp) CP-MP/M or N-Star and all >multi-user. Nice machines, fun to hack on and just play with. There is >LOTS I'd like to find for these 2 (Seiko and Molecular) machines as >well. Also have a PC next to the Seiko's. The Seiko's are more fun. I'd >like to find a terminal program that will run on the Seiko's 8086. Maybe >even something for the Mole's 8080. Maybe you don't see the point now >but lots of us still like to play around with admittedly older but >sometimes more intriguing systems. > >BTW, if anyone DOES have any term program that'll run on either of these >'old technology' :-) machines, I'll be happy to hear from you. > Hmm... It might help to know what kind of I/O you're using. My system is a Z80b-6MHz (Mostly CompuPro stuff) CPU-Z board,with 3 RAM17 boards (64k that supports the extended 24bit addressing for 192k system ram) , c CompuPro SMB-2 board for boot and some I/O, Fulcrum Tech.'s VIO-X1 video board connected to a Samsung Amber Digital monitor, a ComputerWatch RTC, Two GodBout DISK1 boards (running 2 MPE 1.2mb 8" drives and 4 360k DDDS 5.25" drives respectivly) a DISK2 board connected to a Segate 80mb harddrive (some hack, huh? I'm proud of it!) SSM's IO4 and IO5 boards for lotsa RS232 and Parallel (been working on making this old TRS80 into a parallel terminal(ish) thing since these parallel ports are all Bi-Directional. would be cool) A Tarbell 8" controller that is hooked up to one (wouldn't want more) 256k 8" floppy (only thing its used for is formatting and transfering data to/from the pdp11/34's rx01 drive.. (damn DEC. can't even make their drives able to format a floppy. thanks a lot.) and tto top it off, Jade's "Bus Probe" and a homebuilt Hex display for address/IO... oh, its also using an IBM clone 101 key keyboard (Better than that old IMSAI IKB-1 anyday!) I'm quite proud of my box, as ya can tell.. anyways, coupla questions... (oh, if you've got a standard Z80SIO, i've got a great home-hacked comm program.. (well, I'm not responsible for writing it.. My cohort "Dent" is .. full featured and its under 3 K. Great for ROMing.. (It even has SCROLL BACK!! heh. i'll have him post the source.) anyways, coupla questions. I have another S100 machine that is sitting in my garage waiting to be reassembled. there are quite a few Z80a CPU boards out there. (As in 4 of them. and one 8080 board) i was wondering if anyone knew of anyone else | has info on how to hook up more than one processor to a S100 bus... I'd really enjoy having a multiprocessor Z80 machine lying around, and i could apply the same trick to Leviathan (the big Uzi / CP/M machine described above).. would be a righteous hack. Thanx in advance, if theres anyone to thank. Techs / cs2591aq@carina.unm.edu aNk1e ByT0rz k1Ub common account Insert disclaimer of your choice here. This Disclaimer Space Intentionally Left Blank..
karn@ka9q.bellcore.com (Phil Karn) (04/11/90)
In article <10080@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> payne@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Andrew Payne) writes: > This item joggled my memory about a question I've been meaning to >ask for a while. What's the smallest PC system configuration you can get >away with? I had in mind: motherboard, drive controller, drive, power >supply, and any necessary packet I/O boards. No display card, display, >keyboard. > Motivation being setting up a dedicated packet switch. It sure >would be cheaper than outfitting a full system and would be less power >hungry. I'm doing exactly this right here. I have a stripped XT that runs my code as a dedicated IP gateway between my shack Ethernet and a 220.55 MHz 56kb packet channel. It consists of a case, power supply, XT motherboard, single 360K floppy drive, Ethernet interface and DRSI PCPA card (to talk to the modem). When I turn it on, it boots automatically. I leave it on 24 hours/day. I can't remember what all the parts cost, but just go to one of the PC computer shows and you can certainly price a comparable system very quickly. > I know my BIOS would balk right away at no display and keyboard, but >I was wondering if anyone had tried such a configuration? My BIOS doesn't balk, as long as I set up the config switches properly. My system does have a display adaptor, monitor and keyboard mainly because I already had them sitting around, but the system will run just fine if I disconnect them. Phil
karn@ka9q.bellcore.com (Phil Karn) (04/11/90)
In article <1804@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> tech@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Richard Loken) writes: >Because I own a CP/M box. >Because I like to see how how much can be done with 64k and 4MHz. >Because I don't like 80xx boxes. >Because I feel like it. >Because this is a hobby and economic justification is irrelevant. Fine. My code is freely available to any and all hams. It's mostly in C and should be reasonably easy to port, assuming you can cram what currently takes 277K on the PC (not counting data space) into 64K (counting data space). Consider also that most Z-80 C compilers seem to generate object code that's roughly twice as large as on the 8086. Have at it! Phil
bowen@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Devon E Bowen) (04/12/90)
In article <21974@bellcore.bellcore.com>, karn@ka9q.bellcore.com (Phil Karn) writes: > Fine. My code is freely available to any and all hams. Does this sound snotty to anyone else or is it just me? The original post asked a very simple question. He just wanted to know if anyone had done any work with TCP on CP/M or whether the original stuff and been maintained to any degree. And instead of a polite "no, no one is working on that but you are welcome to if you like" he gets this lecture on how his computer isn't worth using and he should buy a PC. When he says he likes his computer he gets another reply telling him if he wants it he should write. Like he was complaining or something. But he never did complained! In fact, he said: > I sort of hope there isn't any, then I will have to write some. Anyone in this hobby that says something like this in this day and age does not deserve the shit this guy is getting back for it. And he's getting it from those people pushing the most for a no-code license to get more doers into ham radio!!! [not meant to imply I am pro-code] This is no fun anymore. Devon