todd@ivucsb.UUCP (Todd Day <todd>) (08/29/88)
I just saw this ad in the June, 1988, issue of Video Magazine on page 43:
Ad Zapper
Selective Recording Technology
VCR Commercial Eliminator
...Ad Zapper uses the new SRT technology so you can enjoy virtually
commercial-free recordings of your favorite TV shows and movies.
When your VCR records, Ad Zapper eliminates 95% of comercial time...
..Works with ... infra-red control...
Anyway, does anybody know what is in the video signal that tips off
this device that a commercial is coming up and when the commercial is
over? On some cable channels like CNN and ESPN, they have the touch-tone
sounds before commercials begin and end, so it wouldn't be too hard to
key on those. But what about standard broadcast channels which have
none of these tones? Is there something in the vertical sync bar?
--
/| Todd Day (805)968-9352 |\ "I asked for a car, I got a computer. How's
+-+ | The Audio Club at UCSB | +-+ that for being born under a bad sign?"
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\| Isla Vista, CA 93117 |/ {sun}!pyramid!comdesign!ivucsb!toddjallred@bbn.com (John Allred) (08/29/88)
In article <257@ivucsb.UUCP> todd@ivucsb.UUCP (Todd Day <todd>) writes: >...Ad Zapper uses the new SRT technology so you can enjoy virtually >commercial-free recordings of your favorite TV shows and movies. >When your VCR records, Ad Zapper eliminates 95% of comercial time... >..Works with ... infra-red control... > >Anyway, does anybody know what is in the video signal that tips off >this device that a commercial is coming up and when the commercial is >over? I had a box that claimed to have a "commercial alert" -- it looked for the fade to black that usually begins and ends a commercial. It usually worked, but it had a large rate of false alerts -- seems that real shows have fade to blacks in them, too. Anyone know what "SRT technology" is? ____ John Allred BBN Systems and Technologies Corp. (jallred@bbn.com) "We're on the road to nowhere ..."
hrlaser@gryphon.CTS.COM (Harv Laser) (08/30/88)
I saw one of these "commercial eliminators" advertised years ago. All it
did was look for the "fade to black" between program stop and commercial
start and then put the deck into "pause mode" for either :30, 1:00 or 2:00
which was user-settable.
Maybe the one you described is actually something new??
--
Harv Laser
UUCP: {anywhere}!gryphon!hrlaser
INET: hrlaser@gryphon.cts.comlemke@Apple.COM (Steve Lemke) (08/30/88)
In article <257@ivucsb.UUCP> todd@ivucsb.UUCP (Todd Day <todd>) writes: >I just saw this ad in the June, 1988, issue of Video Magazine on page 43: > >Ad Zapper >Selective Recording Technology >VCR Commercial Eliminator > >...Ad Zapper uses the new SRT technology so you can enjoy virtually >commercial-free recordings of your favorite TV shows and movies. >When your VCR records, Ad Zapper eliminates 95% of comercial time... >..Works with ... infra-red control... Well, the other thing is, how many VCRs allow you to pause the recording when it is in unattended (ie: programmed) mode? I don't think many do, and if this is the case, then this device (if it indeed just sends an infrared "pause" cmd to the VCR at the beginning and end of each commercial) would only work if you had started the recording with either the "play/record" buttons or the "quick/ one-touch recording" button. Not very useful if you're away (and it seems to me that if you were there you could practically do the job yourself, although I guess it would be nice to have something do it for you). ===== Steve Lemke ===== Internet : lemke@apple.com UUCP: {sun,voder,nsc,decwrl}!apple!lemke AppleLink: LEMKE GEnie: S.Lemke All opinions are, of course, mine, and could never belong to anyone else!
jbn@glacier.STANFORD.EDU (John B. Nagle) (08/30/88)
About four years ago, I saw such a unit on sale at a video store
(since defunct) at the Stanford Shopping Center. It was a very
sophisticated device. It had some elaborate algorithm for determining
whether a program was a commercial or not; the algorithm was not disclosed.
It took it a few seconds to decide whether a new segment was a commercial
or not. Upon detecting the start of a commercial, it would stop recording
and back up the VCR to the beginning of the commercial. As soon as a
break in the program occured, it would start recording again, and if the
new segment also turned out to be a commercial, would again back over the
commercial.
The unit only worked with certain VCRs. The backup and reposition
logic was very sophisticated; it backed up too far and then played forward
until detecting some kind of mark it was placing in the audio or video
track, then stopped. The amount of time to rewind before reentering
play was determined adaptively, and the unit learned the dynamics of the
VCR involved over time.
I tried this unit on a basketball game. It recorded the game until
a commercial started. A few seconds in, it detected the commercial, and
backed up, then waited. Another commercial followed, and it started
recording again, but soon detected that this was a second message and
again repositioned. A third commercial was treated the same way.
Finally, the game resumed, and this time, the recording process was
allowed to proceed.
Playback showed a clean tape, with a clean cut from the game
to the game. I was impressed. But the price, about $350, was a bit high
at the time.
I have no idea how it was done.
John Naglepew@ew07.nas.nasa.gov (John A. Pew) (08/30/88)
In article <16314@apple.Apple.COM> lemke@apple.com.UUCP (Steve Lemke) writes: >In article <257@ivucsb.UUCP> todd@ivucsb.UUCP (Todd Day <todd>) writes: >>I just saw this ad in the June, 1988, issue of Video Magazine on page 43: >> >>Ad Zapper >>Selective Recording Technology >>VCR Commercial Eliminator > >Well, the other thing is, how many VCRs allow you to pause the recording when >it is in unattended (ie: programmed) mode? I don't think many do, and if this >is the case, then this device (if it indeed just sends an infrared "pause" cmd >to the VCR at the beginning and end of each commercial) would only work if you >had started the recording with either the "play/record" buttons or the "quick/ >one-touch recording" button. Not very useful if you're away (and it seems to >me that if you were there you could practically do the job yourself, although >I guess it would be nice to have something do it for you). I got a brochure on the Ad Zapper a while back. I don't have it in front of me but the way it gets around the problem of the pause during programmed control is that it has its own programmable remote. Apparently, it is somewhat similar to the universal remotes which are widely available. You do not use the programming feature of your VCR, rather you program the supplied remote which you then place at a strategic point so that it can turn on the VCR, put it in record mode, and then pause when appropriate. It is even smart enough to know that most VCRs have a pause timeout, so it will--if it believes that it is still commercial time and after the timeout has been reached--take the VCR out of pause and then put it back into pause. It doesn't claim to be perfect. The brochure says that part of the program can be lost, but the maximum program loss is 35 seconds. I'll try to find the brochure and post it's contents. --------------------- John Pew NASA Ames Research Center pew@ew07.nas.nasa.gov
jlh@loral.UUCP (Physically Pffft) (08/30/88)
I don't know why everyone is discussing fade to black detection, special
signals in the vertical sync, or whatever for commercial detection. All
ya gotta do is monitor the sound track and wait for the volume to go up.
Voila, we found a commercial. Course, this may not work for charger football
games due to crowd noise, but Padre baseball games should have no problem.
Jim
"Never lick an envelope after eating Oreos"
--
Jim Harkins
Loral Instrumentation, San Diego
{ucbvax, ittvax!dcdwest, akgua, decvax, ihnp4}!ucsd!sdcc6!loral!jlhglenns@sco.COM (Glenn Schmall) (08/31/88)
In article <257@ivucsb.UUCP> todd@ivucsb.UUCP (Todd Day <todd>) writes: > >...Ad Zapper uses the new SRT technology so you can enjoy virtually >commercial-free recordings of your favorite TV shows and movies. >When your VCR records, Ad Zapper eliminates 95% of comercial time... >..Works with ... infra-red control... > >Anyway, does anybody know what is in the video signal that tips off >this device that a commercial is coming up and when the commercial is >over? On some cable channels like CNN and ESPN, they have the touch-tone >sounds before commercials begin and end, so it wouldn't be too hard to >key on those. But what about standard broadcast channels which have >none of these tones? Is there something in the vertical sync bar? Ever Notice how many commercial sound levels are much much greater than normal tv sound? It wouldnt be very hard to monitor sound levels and when the sound level reaches critical commercial level (:) ) turns off the recording. Thats probably why they say only 95% of the time,some commercials are as loud as others(thank god). glenns@sco ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ What do you mean it just stopped? | ucbvax!ucscc!sco!glenns | Ascii if I Char. | ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
jnp@calmasd.GE.COM (John Pantone) (08/31/88)
>I don't know why everyone is discussing fade to black detection, special >signals in the vertical sync, or whatever for commercial detection. All >ya gotta do is monitor the sound track and wait for the volume to go up. Because the "fact" that TV commercials are louder than the program material is simply a myth. The FCC was involved in an investigation recently (several years ago, I think), and the results were negative; commercials vary their sound levels roughly identically to program material. They do, though, frequently use various compression and/or expansion schemes to cause a higher "modulation percentage" in the soundtrack, and to prevent "dead-air" (silence is anathema to advertisers). There is no signal present on broadcast tv which presages a commercial - if there was that network would find itself bankrupt awfully fast - can you imagine spending hundreds of millions of dollars advertising on a tv station whose viewers could effectively ignore your commercials? I can't comment on cable - although I should imagine that the commercial forces would be the same there. Fade-to-black is a fairly good way to detect a commercial - except of course when it occurs during the program - probably not frequently in comedies, but dramas use this technique frequently; yielding a 30 second hole in your recording. I'm afraid that there just isn't a very good way to avoid commercials - in an automated system; and if one is found, the advertisers and tv broadcasters will surely institute lawsuits and/or countermeasures - advertising is their paycheck. -- These opinions are solely mine and in no way reflect those of my employer. John M. Pantone @ GE/Calma R&D, 9805 Scranton Rd., San Diego, CA 92121 ...{ucbvax|decvax}!sdcsvax!calmasd!jnp jnp@calmasd.GE.COM GEnie: J.PANTONE
brown@nicmad.UUCP (Mr. Video) (09/01/88)
In article <1160@scolex> glenns@sco.COM (The Static Master) writes:
< Ever Notice how many commercial sound levels are much much greater
< than normal tv sound? It wouldnt be very hard to monitor sound levels
< and when the sound level reaches critical commercial level (:) ) turns
< off the recording. Thats probably why they say only 95% of the time,some
< commercials are as loud as others(thank god).
They APPEAR louder, but in actuality, they aren't. Based on modulation
levels, they are still 100% (or less :-). Audio compression techniques
are used to make them seem louder. So just monitoring the sound level isn't
going to work. One would need to do a real-time FFT on the sound.
--
harvard-\ att--\
Mr. Video ucbvax!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!brown
rutgers-/ decvax--/
rolls--/smc@mtund.ATT.COM (Steven Casagrande) (09/02/88)
In article <45@calmasd.GE.COM> jnp@calmasd.GE.COM (John Pantone) writes: > >>I don't know why everyone is discussing fade to black detection, special >>signals in the vertical sync, or whatever for commercial detection. All >>ya gotta do is monitor the sound track and wait for the volume to go up. > >There is no signal present on broadcast tv which presages a commercial > A few years back there was a device that would detect the Color SubCarrier transmitted by the TV Station. Apparently, if you were trying to tape a B&W movie (i.e., late at night), it would detect the switch from the B&W movie to the COLOR commercial, and would then stop the tape (using a hardwired pause line - this was about 6 yrs ago). It was supposed to be pretty fast, but I wonder if the station would just transmit the color subcarrier anyway during the movie (to avoid this effect). I think VIDICRAFT made this box, and it was called "The Commercial Eliminator" or something like that. Of course, this wouldn't do squat for a color show..... ___ ======= "The Power of the Force +---------------------------+ =.....===== stopped you hosers, eh!" | TIME 0:00 | =.......===== -- Strange Brew | KANSAS 83 chOKLAHOMA 79 | =......====== +---------------------------+ =========== Steve Casagrande These are not the ideas of AT&T Bell Labs, ====== att!mtund!smc but they reserve the right to purchase them.
dya@unccvax.UUCP (York David Anthony @ W06BF-TV, Concord, NC) (09/02/88)
In article <45@calmasd.GE.COM>, jnp@calmasd.GE.COM (John Pantone) writes: > >I don't know why everyone is discussing fade to black detection, special > >signals in the vertical sync, or whatever for commercial detection. All > >ya gotta do is monitor the sound track and wait for the volume to go up. > Because the "fact" that TV commercials are louder than the program > material is simply a myth. The FCC was involved in an investigation > (but goes on to say that compression is used) Loudness is a subjective pheonomenon, and one which probably causes me more grief (as an AM and TV station consulting engineer) than any other single subject. The FCC investigation into commercial loudness is malarkey. (However, some situation comedies run heavy levels of compression as well). What they did say, is, is that stations were not running wider peak deviations during commercials than during programs. Loudness has very little to do with what is seen on the modulation monitor. A study measuring the RMS (preferably, in combination with a real time analyser) of programs and commercials' audio would most assuredly find that commercials are "louder" in many cases. Virtually everyone can get their hands on various devices (such as the Aphex aural exciter, or any of a number of compressors) and make 25 kc deviated FM sound louder than hell. > There is no signal present on broadcast tv which presages a commercial > - if there was that network would find itself bankrupt awfully fast - > can you imagine spending hundreds of millions of dollars advertising > on a tv station whose viewers could effectively ignore your > commercials? What lawsuits? And consumers already effectively ignore commercials. In my house, the Sony remote control mutes the sound, substitutes WRFX-FM into the audio, and either an NTSC test pattern or a live shot of the 4+ acres in the backyard from the three-tube plumbicon camera dedicated to that purpose. (Don't howl, netters, it was dropped and registration problems have rendered it worthless for everything but survellance. Besides, at least one network (NBC) inserts a white flag into the last 3.5 us of lines 21-31 (?)...in the upper right hand corner. This flashes a number of times approximately 30 seconds before station break, and comes on at 5 seconds before station break. Then, the problem is knowing when to rejoin the network. The other networks have suitable in-band signalling arrangements (I think ABC has one which can activate a local station ID overlay auto- matically for those so equipped). The NBC white flag also seems to preannounce network avails, too. I've never worked at an NBC affiliate, (and only do RF, besides) and am not familiar with the operational aspects. Of course, all but the most stupid TV stations are going to scrub out any in-band signalling, VIR/VITS, whatever... York David Anthony DataSpan, Inc
tdsnsr@nmtsun.nmt.edu ( Todd/Dr. Nethack ) (09/02/88)
The gizmo we used to sell sensed video black.. it works ok.. until you
get an old movie that has lots of black in it.. that will pause your
machine when you don't want it paused..
I still would like to see some ques in the broadcast signal that let you
que your vcr in and out... but of course that would lead to a t.v. set
with the same feature.. it would automatically go into mute and out
again...
I get the idea the advertisers would not want to support a station that
broadcast such ques..
--too bad..
--
The Cafeteria? ... Oh! They serve *food* there, right?
Kinda like a salad bar y'know? Well, *we* call it, "The Foobar" ...
...ames!hc!unmvax!nmtsun!titan!tdsnsr / tdsnsr@titan.nmt.edu
Dr. Nethack: Box 3693 C/S Socorro NM. 87801 paul@aucs.UUCP (Paul Steele) (09/02/88)
What about the "Adnix" and "Preachnix" devices which Carl Sagan invented for
his book "Contact"?
--
Paul H. Steele USENET: {uunet|watmath|utai|garfield}!dalcs!aucs!Paul
Acadia University BITNET: Paul@Acadia
Wolfville, NS Internet: Paul%Acadia.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
CANADA B0P 1X0 (902) 542-2201x587levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin) (09/02/88)
In article <1039@mtund.ATT.COM> smc@mtund.UUCP (Steven Casagrande) writes:
(A few years back there was a device that would detect the Color SubCarrier
(transmitted by the TV Station. Apparently, if you were trying to tape
(a B&W movie (i.e., late at night), it would detect the switch from
(the B&W movie to the COLOR commercial, and would then stop the tape
((using a hardwired pause line - this was about 6 yrs ago). It was
(supposed to be pretty fast, but I wonder if the station would just
(transmit the color subcarrier anyway during the movie (to avoid this
(effect). I think VIDICRAFT made this box, and it was called "The
(Commercial Eliminator" or something like that.
I read about this one. Maybe it would work better now, but a few
years ago on some stations I watched, switching the subcarrier was
manual and there would often be five minutes after the movie resumed
before someone would remember to shut it off; and it often came on a
minute before it was needed. That much of a movie I would hate to
have cut.
/JBL
UUCP: {backbone}!bbn!levin POTS: (617) 873-3463
INTERNET: levin@bbn.comdya@unccvax.UUCP (York David Anthony @ W06BF-TV, Concord, NC) (09/02/88)
In article <1039@mtund.ATT.COM>, smc@mtund.ATT.COM (Steven Casagrande) writes: > A few years back there was a device that would detect the Color SubCarrier > transmitted by the TV Station. Apparently, if you were trying to tape > a B&W movie (i.e., late at night), it would detect the switch from > the B&W movie to the COLOR commercial, and would then stop the tape Not no more, however. The FCC has (or is imminently about to) repeal the "turn off the burst during monochrome programs" rule, because it is a pain in the ass. The reason that killing the burst is such a pain is that distribution channels for programs, even monochrome programs, distribute via videotape, etc...synchronising the stuff through a TBC (so it can be routed through the TV station plant and thence to the transmitter, synchronised with all the other TV station plant) requires the presence of color burst to derive the sampling clock, etc. The usual burst-killing method involved switching in (electronically) an appropriate trap during the burst flag interval, or otherwise obliterating it at the transmitter. WTBS's burst is present during monochrome programs (on satellite distribution) and I'm pretty sure that WJZY (local Belmont station) leaves it on all the time as well. There was also a "turn off the 19 kc pilot tone" rule for FM stations which is repealed. I actually did this during my God Squad shift days at a local FM. Technically, you'd have to turn it off for commercials at this (and many) stations with mono cart machines.... Since cross-chroma is no longer a problem with encoders and decoders, it looks like the color burst is "defacto" part of the commercial TV RS-170A sync signal. (Ever try to build a purely monochrome TBC??? Yecch!) York David Anthony DataSpan, Inc
lemke@Apple.COM (Steve Lemke) (09/03/88)
In article <898@amelia.nas.nasa.gov> pew@ew07.nas.nasa.gov (John A. Pew) writes: >It is even smart enough to know that most VCRs have a pause timeout, so >it will--if it believes that it is still commercial time and after the timeout >has been reached--take the VCR out of pause and then put it back into pause. Well, it sounds like a really cool device, and I'm not saying I know what they should've done, but it seems to me that VCRs have a pause timeout for a REASON! Namely, if you leave it in pause long enough, it's not very good for that spot of tape - the head happens to be spinning, you know, and holding the tape in place isn't really a good idea. That's why they shut it down if you don't. Now, if you ask me, having the thing start again and then jump back to pause just seems like it's going to make a longer area of the tape that is "burned out". Oh well... I guess VCRs aren't really fast enough to stop and then start up again (well, some are getting close, but most aren't). Still, I know many people who don't like pause mode at all because of what it does to the tape. Good to know that it takes care of programming and all, though. Does it change channels for future programs, too? Sounds like you also get a box that gives what would otherwise be an old (or cheap) VCR much better programming abilities than were in the original design. ===== Steve Lemke ===== Internet : lemke@apple.com UUCP: {sun,voder,nsc,decwrl}!apple!lemke AppleLink: LEMKE GEnie: S.Lemke All opinions are, of course, mine, and could never belong to anyone else!
lemke@Apple.COM (Steve Lemke) (09/03/88)
In article <1039@mtund.ATT.COM> smc@mtund.UUCP (Steven Casagrande) writes: >A few years back there was a device that would detect the Color SubCarrier >transmitted by the TV Station. Apparently, if you were trying to tape >a B&W movie (i.e., late at night), it would detect the switch from >the B&W movie to the COLOR commercial, and would then stop the tape > >Of course, this wouldn't do squat for a color show..... Sure it would - it would prevent you from taping it (thinking the whole thing was a commercial), wouldn't it? ===== Steve Lemke ===== Internet : lemke@apple.com UUCP: {sun,voder,nsc,decwrl}!apple!lemke AppleLink: LEMKE GEnie: S.Lemke All opinions are, of course, mine, and could never belong to anyone else!
mrb1@homxc.UUCP (M.BAKER) (09/04/88)
All this talk of VCR commercial eliminators brought to mind something I ran into a couple of years ago (circa 84 or 85, maybe) while chief engineer at an ABC station. If I recall correctly, there was a code of some sort which network included in the vertical interval of shows coming down the line (it really was a "line" then :-) ) to us. Supposedly, we were required to pass it unmolested through the transmitter and onto the air. Somewhere in our viewing area, there was a receiver/decoder/etc. system which would monitor this code. The whole idea was to make sure we were not clipping network programming by sneaking in additional commercials in the avails. slot, or rolling our own spots over network ads (except in the case of scheduled cut-ins, whereupon they probably checked to see if we missed it or not). Seems like it went by the name "AMOL" --- for Automated Measurement of Lineup, or something to that effect. Maybe it even had to do with automating the Nielsen diary process, or something like that? In any case, I can't believe that I'm imagining this but don't recall any details or hearing any more about it. It would make for a dandy commercial eliminator if you knew how it was sent, and if it indeed is still there. Maybe a check of old issues of "Broadcasting" would turn something else, or a friendly query to your local chief engineer type.
bob@rush.cts.com (Bob Ames) (09/07/88)
In article <3309@homxc.UUCP>, mrb1@homxc.UUCP (M.BAKER) writes: > > I ran into a couple of years ago (circa 84 or 85, maybe) while chief > engineer at an ABC station. If I recall correctly, there was a > code of some sort which network included in the vertical interval > of shows coming down the line (it really was a "line" then :-) ) Until around 1984, I would always hear a high frequency sound whenever our local station (KGTV-10, San Diego) switched to ABC. I'm more sensitive to high frequency sounds than most people, but this high sound was really noticeable and was irritating. I wonder if I could hear this "code". Bob Ames Howard Publications, Inc. Bell: 619-743-2546 INET: bob@rush.cts.com UUCP: {rutgers!ucsd, nosc, hplabs!hp-sdd}!crash!rush.cts.com!bob or crash!rush!bob might work... "We've got Tribbles on the ship, Quintotritacale in the corridors, and Klingons in the Quadrant! It can ruin your whole day, Sir!" - Scotty, "More Tribbles, More Troubles", animated. "We each pay a fabulous price - for our visions of paradise." - Rush