donnam@palomar.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Donna Mitchell) (07/09/90)
Question to people who make their own mayonaise: What do you do about the raw egg?!!! Because of recent warning against them, what do you do to them to make them safe? Thanks, Donna ______________________________________________________________________________ Sometimes I think the surest | Donna Mitchell sign that intelligent life | Donnam@palomar.SanDiego.NCR.Com exists elsewhere in the | UUCP: ...!ucsd \ universe is that none of it has | NCR: ...!ncrcae - !ncr-sd!palomar!donnam tried to contact us. --Calvin | ARPA: ...!nosc / __________________________________|___________________________________________
schouten@sp20.csrd.uiuc.edu (Dale Schouten) (07/10/90)
In article <629@iss-rb.SanDiego.NCR.COM> donnam@palomar.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Donna Mitchell) writes: > Question to people who make their own mayonaise: What do you do about > the raw egg?!!! Because of recent warning against them, what do you > do to them to make them safe? ummm, What warning ? Just curious Dale Schouten schouten@uiuc.edu
jstetson@bbn.com (Jan Stetson) (07/10/90)
In article <629@iss-rb.SanDiego.NCR.COM> donnam@palomar.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Donna Mitchell) writes: >Question to people who make their own mayonaise: What do you do about >the raw egg?!!! Because of recent warning against them, what do you >do to them to make them safe? > Rats, I can't remember where I read this, so I'm stuck with the old "I read somewhere..." dodge. But anyway, "I read somewhere" that the chance of any given particular egg being contaminated with salmonella is very small. (One in some thousands, I don't recall with precision.) So yeah, your homemade mayo might make you sick, but it's not likely. Where salmonella and raw eggs really becomes an issue is where you're making scrambled eggs for 300 in an institutional setting. There, if the eggs sit after mixing and/or are not cooked fully, the bacteria from a single egg can contaminate the entire batch. If in addition, the institution is a hospital or nursing home, the weakened health of the population is an additional factor. ******************************************************************************** * Jan Stetson * ********************************************************************************
kleonard@gvlv1.gvl.unisys.com (Ken Leonard) (07/10/90)
In article <629@iss-rb.SanDiego.NCR.COM> donnam@palomar.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Donna Mitchell) writes:
* Question to people who make their own mayonaise: What do you do about
* the raw egg?!!! Because of recent warning against them, what do you
* do to them to make them safe?
--
Well, first, the hazard is that bacteria, particularly salmonella, which
are present on the outside of virtually any egg, might get into the food
and have opportunity to grow to siginficant numbers (or produce a
significant amount of waste-toxin) before the food is consumed.
--
So, when intending to use (essentially/nearly) raw eggs...
==Use only eggs which have no cracks in the shell,
==Rinse and wipe the eggs (tepid water and a "dobie pad" are quite enough),
==Crack carefully, so that nothing "outside" gets "inside,"
==Use soonest and/or keep well refrigerated.
All of which are easy enough to do for home cooking quantities.
--
It is true, as another poster(s) said, that the big hazard is in
large-quantity (i.e. institutional) cooking where things might sit around
at room temp for a long time before cooking, where cooking might not
be very thorough, where hazards tend to multiply faster than bacteria, anyhow.
--
We make our own mayo frequently, only in small batches because who wants
3-day-old mayo anyhow, always well chilled because who wants soupy mayo,
always the uncooked kind because it's the best tasting.
--
Public health authorities tend to be emphatic about such warnings because
how else do they get _anyone_ to listen _at_all_. And newspapers (etc.)
tend to sensationalize a bit because that's what sells.
--
The best bet, as usual, is to read/ask/dig enough to get down to the
reason/origin/root of the problem--which lets one make a reasonable/reasoned
evaluation of the hazard in one's own actual situation and, then, take
reasonable steps to deal with it. (Like using undamaged eggs and making sure
they are clean and using good preparation procedures)
--
Gee, there are _so_many_ areas of food-preparation where all this applies!
----------------------
regardz,
Ken
((do it right, and ENJOY))perley@trub (Donald P Perley) (07/10/90)
In article <800@gvlv2.GVL.Unisys.COM>, kleonard@gvlv1 (Ken Leonard) writes: >In article <629@iss-rb.SanDiego.NCR.COM> donnam@palomar.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Donna Mitchell) writes: >* Question to people who make their own mayonaise: What do you do about >* the raw egg?!!! Because of recent warning against them, what do you >* do to them to make them safe? >-- >Well, first, the hazard is that bacteria, particularly salmonella, which >are present on the outside of virtually any egg, might get into the food >and have opportunity to grow to siginficant numbers (or produce a >significant amount of waste-toxin) before the food is consumed. The old story was that salmonella would only be on the outside of an egg. In the past couple of years, some eggs have turned up with salmonella on the inside. An article I read said that virtually all of them (in the northeast anyway) had been traced to one farm. I think there was also a scare in England about salmonella inside eggs. -don perley perley@trub.crd.ge.com
deb@comcon.UUCP (Deborah Donoho) (07/11/90)
In article <629@iss-rb.SanDiego.NCR.COM>, donnam@palomar.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Donna Mitchell) writes: > Question to people who make their own mayonaise: What do you do about > the raw egg?!!! Because of recent warning against them, what do you > do to them to make them safe? > Thanks, > Donna I have quite buying store bought eggs. I drive 15 miles and buy farm fresh only. It is great too. The kids love the colors (eating easter eggs all year long) and they are so fresh you can really tell the difference. Some day we are going to have our chickens. I love having all the different sizes also. deborah
jones@sj.ate.slb.com (Clark Jones) (07/11/90)
>In article <629@iss-rb.SanDiego.NCR.COM> donnam@palomar.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Donna Mitchell) writes: >* Question to people who make their own mayonaise: All this talk of home-made mayo reminded me of a story I hope you'll find amusing! :-) A friend's father (who is a retired M.D.) claims that his mother (also a Medical Doctor) once made a batch of mayo using castor oil! She claimed that she happened to get some rancid oil, but members of the family who knew her say that the castor oil is at least equally probable... No, it didn't work as a way of getting it down "sonny"... he won't even touch mayonaise, at least 50 years later... Clark Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above are mine and not those of Schlumberger because they are NOT covered by the patent agreement!
brianr@phred.UUCP (Brian Reese) (07/11/90)
In article <629@iss-rb.SanDiego.NCR.COM> donnam@palomar.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Donna Mitchell) writes: >Question to people who make their own mayonaise: What do you do about >the raw egg?!!! Because of recent warning against them, what do you >do to them to make them safe? Pardon my ignurence ;-), but what's the big scare about raw eggs? Thanx, Brian -- Brian Reese uw-beaver!pilchuck!seahcx!phred!brianr Physio Control Corp., Redmond, Wa. brianr@phred.UUCP "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains excite me!" All opinions are manf. suggested and are subject to change without notice.
lindah@sequent.UUCP (Linda Hoover) (07/12/90)
You can use just the whites, which, as I understand it, do not contain the bad stuff that the yolks collect. However, I don't think that eating whole eggs is any worse for you than drinking tap water. I therefore have not made any adjustments in making my own mayo.
esoo-hoo@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Elaine Soo-hoo) (07/12/90)
About the egg thing, isn't it true that eggs make a GREAT medium for all sorts of bacteria and other nasties? The egg yolks are the part that contains all the cholestrol...right? --Elaine! :) -- Elaine!
donnam@palomar.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Donna Mitchell) (07/12/90)
In article <3179@phred.UUCP> brianr@phred.UUCP (Brian Reese) writes: > >Pardon my ignurence ;-), but what's the big scare about raw eggs? > Samonella. Donna ______________________________________________________________________________ Sometimes I think the surest | Donna Mitchell sign that intelligent life | Donnam@palomar.SanDiego.NCR.Com exists elsewhere in the | UUCP: ...!ucsd \ universe is that none of it has | NCR: ...!ncrcae - !ncr-sd!palomar!donnam tried to contact us. --Calvin | ARPA: ...!nosc / __________________________________|___________________________________________
kleonard@gvlv1.gvl.unisys.com (Ken Leonard) (07/12/90)
In article <269C0707.13016@ics.uci.edu> esoo-hoo@ics.uci.edu (Elaine!) writes:
*
* About the egg thing, isn't it true that eggs make a GREAT medium for all sorts
* of bacteria and other nasties?
--
Well, and so are a lot of other foods! Have you ever seen an inventory of the
things that live on or near the skin of fresh (especially "organic grown")
veggies? I have. -- How about the surfaces (inner and outer) of a nice,
plump, farm-slaughtered chicken? -- Just use some informed common sense,
good refrigeration, and reasonable preparation technique.
--
Pick _any_ food you choose, and I'll find a way to bash on it, for
nutrition and/or sanitation concerns, that will absolutely make you want to
barf all over your terminal before you read a screenful.
--
Let's not get into bashing or viewing-with-alarm (leave that to the
politicians 8-).) Let's _do_ swap some tips on how to _do_it_right_, etc.
--
*
* The egg yolks are the part that contains all the cholestrol...right?
--
Yeah, but so what? If I have to cut down on C-loaded meats, and boost the
veggies (which I _do_ like a lot,) I _am_ darn-well gonna have my itty-bitty
blop of damnfine-homemade-loveitforever mayo on top of my sliced beefsteak
'maters or whatever it is, and the C-stuff be damned!!! 8-).
-----------------
regardz,
Kenparker@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Jim Parker) (07/13/90)
In article <38422@sequent.UUCP>, lindah@sequent.UUCP (Linda Hoover) writes: > > You can use just the whites, which, as I understand it, do not contain the > bad stuff that the yolks collect. However, I don't think that eating whole > eggs is any worse for you than drinking tap water. I therefore have not > made any adjustments in making my own mayo. I think nobody knows exactly what 'problem' we are talking about with raw eggs. I see only two possible: 1. Salmonella- unlikely, but possible; killed by cooking. 2. Raw white, when ingested, prevents the body from absorbing biotin. This can cause a deficiency. This is what I think is the problem, and is prevented by ONLY using the yolk. The 'cholesterol' problem with eggs is not what we are discussing, I don't think. First, its there in cooked eggs too. Next, its not as bad as rumored, and the cholesterol intake is not the problem anyway- its FAT intake. Finally, what are you doing with mayonaise if you are worried about fat intake? So what are we discussing? Jim Parker
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (07/13/90)
In article <1990Jul12.172710.9926@calgary.uucp>, parker@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Jim Parker) writes: > > You can use just the whites, which, as I understand it, do not contain the > > bad stuff that the yolks collect. What "bad stuff" are you referring to? > I think nobody knows exactly what 'problem' we are talking > about with raw eggs. I see only two possible: > 1. Salmonella- unlikely, but possible; killed by cooking. The low pH (typical 5.5) of mayonnaise renders it an unfavorable medium for the growth of salmonella. In addition, salmonella has a minimum temperature for growth which ranges between 7 and 10 deg C; even minimal refrigeration will inhibit salmonella growth. Heating food to 66 deg C for at least 12 minutes is generally regarded as sufficient to destroy any salmonella. Spoilage of mayonnaise is most often caused by yeasts, such as varieties of saccharomyces and zygosaccharomyces which produce noticable gas in the product. > 2. Raw white, when ingested, prevents the body from > absorbing biotin. This can cause a deficiency. > This is what I think is the problem, and is > prevented by ONLY using the yolk. I don't believe this is correct. It is my understanding that spontaneous biotin deficiency (which is quite rare) has been observed in cases where people exist on a diet consisting *primarily* of raw egg whites and *little else* for a long period of time. > So what are we discussing? Beats the hell outta me... Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp. "Have you hugged your cat today?" {boulder||decvax||rutgers||watmath}!acsu.buffalo.edu!kitty!larry VOICE: 716/688-1231 || FAX: 716/741-9635 {utzoo||uunet}!/ \aerion!larry
pepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) (07/13/90)
In article <1990Jul12.172710.9926@calgary.uucp> parker@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Jim Parker) writes: > 2. Raw white, when ingested, prevents the body from > absorbing biotin. This can cause a deficiency. > This is what I think is the problem, and is > prevented by ONLY using the yolk. Considering that there is one egg in a cup of mayonnaise, how many hundreds of ham sandwiches would one have to eat a day before this becomes a problem? Eric Pepke INTERNET: pepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu Supercomputer Computations Research Institute MFENET: pepke@fsu Florida State University SPAN: scri::pepke Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 BITNET: pepke@fsu Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions. Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
ritz@ldyday.enet.dec.com (and there are no truths outside the gates of Eden) (07/13/90)
> The low pH (typical 5.5) of mayonnaise renders it an unfavorable > medium for the growth of salmonella. In addition, salmonella has a minimum > temperature for growth which ranges between 7 and 10 deg C; even minimal > refrigeration will inhibit salmonella growth. What's more, the typical recipe calls for the eggs to be whisked with vinegar or lemon juice before the oil is added. This is why eggnog can be safe - if you mix the eggs with the brandy before adding anything else. None of the above will kill salmonella *spores*, though, which is why hollandaise should be not be kept at 90 degrees for more than a few minutes. > > > 2. Raw white, when ingested, prevents the body from > > absorbing biotin. This can cause a deficiency. > > This is what I think is the problem, and is > > prevented by ONLY using the yolk. > > I don't believe this is correct. It is my understanding that > spontaneous biotin deficiency (which is quite rare) has been observed > in cases where people exist on a diet consisting *primarily* of raw > egg whites and *little else* for a long period of time. > Sigh. Adelle Davis lives on... John Ritz ritz@ldyday.enet.dec.com ritz@smaug.enet.dec.com "Paradise is exactly like where you are right now...only much, much better" L. Anderson
denise@dadla.WR.TEK.COM (Denise Caire) (07/13/90)
In article <804@gvlv2.GVL.Unisys.COM> kleonard@gvlv1.UUCP (Ken Leonard) writes: >*In article <269C0707.13016@ics.uci.edu> esoo-hoo@ics.uci.edu (Elaine!) writes: >* >* The egg yolks are the part that contains all the cholestrol...right? >-- >Yeah, but so what? If I have to cut down on C-loaded meats, and boost the >veggies (which I _do_ like a lot,) I _am_ darn-well gonna have my itty-bitty >blop of damnfine-homemade-loveitforever mayo on top of my sliced beefsteak >'maters or whatever it is, and the C-stuff be damned!!! 8-). >----------------- >regardz, >Ken The yolk contains all of the 215 mg of cholesterol in an egg. If you have had your cholesterol tested and find out the level in your system is high, then taking the yolks out of eggs is an excellant way to cut down on your cholesterol intake. Naturally, any food containing a high amout of animal fat would also be wise to cut down if not eliminate completely, like real butter. (By the way, I love real butter but only use it during the holidays when making cookies and candies. The rest of the year I live with margerine and few eggs. I have had a consistantly low cholestrol level for several years and intend to keep it that way. :-) Denise erol level
gamble@rice.edu (Ben Gamble) (07/18/90)
In article <3845@kitty.UUCP> larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes: |In article <1990Jul12.172710.9926@calgary.uucp>, parker@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Jim Parker) writes: |> 2. Raw white, when ingested, prevents the body from |> absorbing biotin. This can cause a deficiency. |> This is what I think is the problem, and is |> prevented by ONLY using the yolk. | | I don't believe this is correct. It is my understanding that |spontaneous biotin deficiency (which is quite rare) has been observed |in cases where people exist on a diet consisting *primarily* of raw |egg whites and *little else* for a long period of time. Begin excerpt, _Principles of Biochemistry_, White et al., 1978, McGraw-Hill. Biotin deficiency cannot be produced merely by diets deficient in this nutrient, presumably because of intestinal bacterial synthesis of this compound. Biotin deficiency follows either sterilization of the intestinal tract, feeding raw egg white, or administration of biotin antimetabolites. Shortly after the description of the effects of feeding raw egg white, it was demonstrated that raw egg white contains a glycoprotein, avidin, that combines with biotin and prevents its absorption from the intestine. Avidin (MW=70K) consists of four identical subunits each with 128 residues of known sequence. Each subunit can bind biotin with Ka=10^15. Denaturation abolishes the biotin-binding capacity. [...] Avidin has been useful experimentally as an inhibitor of biotin-containing enzymes. End excerpt. Ka=10^15, of course, means binding is practically permanent. As for what measures you should take with your mayonnaise, anything I could say would be only speculation. But scarfing large quantities of raw egg whites without biotin supplements is likely to make you sick. (The symptoms of biotin deficiency are dermatitis and muscle aches, or in more severe cases, paralysis.) |> So what are we discussing? | Beats the hell outta me... Well, it seems to have started out as mayonnaise recipes, which were requested by someone allergic to hen eggs who planned to use duck eggs instead. Seems to have mutated into "Eggs as Biohazard", though. (-; Ben Gamble | "It's a Cat!" "In a Hat!" gamble@owlnet.rice.edu | "You will note/ I am neat; Bruce@Tiny[many] | wiped my feet/ on the mat."