Sun-Spots-Request@RICE.EDU (William LeFebvre) (09/30/87)
SUN-SPOTS DIGEST Monday, 28 September 1987 Volume 5 : Issue 45
Today's Topics:
Re: Warning about SunOS 3.4 and TERM
Re: Trouble with Ethernet
Re: fpa with MAGIC and Eagles with 2333
Re: slipping a cylinder
Re: Sun-3 ASCII console problem (2)
Re: pid ### killed due to swap problems in getxfile
Re: Sun support and a question
More on WYSIWUG editors
Overloaded Ethernet
Rwhod problems when Yellow Pages is running on a SUN
Panic 0?
Help needed with console device
PostScript previewing on Sun?
Looking for PC-NFS Reference Sites
A/D converters for SUN workstations?
Color laser beam printers?
troff previewer?
ANSYS users?
An Englishman going home...please redirect help
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 87 11:00:43 EDT
From: Root Boy Jim <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa>
Subject: Re: Warning about SunOS 3.4 and TERM
> From: jonab@cam.unisys.com (Jonathan P. Biggar)
>
> The interaction between 'set term' and 'setenv TERM' in csh has been
> changed. Under release 3.2 or earlier, setting the csh variable term
> would update the environment variable TERM and vice versa. Now, under
> 3.4, setting term will udate TERM, but setenv'ing TERM will not update
> term.
Fair enuf.
> Yet another example of Sun changing something to be incompatible with
> normal 4.2/4.3 functionality.
Wrong. BSD4.3 doesn't set term when TERM is setenv'ed. I don't remember
4.2 doing so either. If pre-3.4 Sunix did so, it was broken.
(Root Boy) Jim Cottrell <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa>
National Bureau of Standards
Flamer's Hotline: (301) 975-5688
I feel partially hydrogenated!
[[ Well, "Root Boy" Jim is right about this one. I always thought that
setenv TERM would also change term, but it in fact does not on our 4.2
systems. However, it does work the other way: "set term=string" will
also change the environment variable TERM. --wnl ]]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 87 12:01:17 EDT
From: Root Boy Jim <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa>
Subject: Re: Trouble with Ethernet
> <cullvax!drw@eddie.mit.edu> Dale Worley Cullinet Software
>
> It appears that the problem is that the Vax (and the PCs) have internet
> addresses 126.1.0.*, whereas the Sun (and its client) have addresses
> 192.9.200.*....
> There seem to be two possible solutions:
>
> 1. Change the addresses of the Sun (and its client diskless Sun) to
> 126.1.0.* addresses.
>
> 2. Get the Sun and the Vax to understand that both sets of addresses are
> physically on the same Ethernet. (Since they are both BSD 4.2 versions,
> the same fix should work for both.)
Well, that reminds me of a war story. We went from a Class C net
(192.12.119.xx) to a Class B net (129.6.xx.xx), subnet 48. We have Vaxen
running 4.2 and 4.3, a Sequent running Dynix V2.0.1, and various Sun-2's
and Sun-3's running anything from 2.0 to 3.2. Only 4.3 has the `netmask'
parameter, altho I think it appeared in Sunix 3.4.
Everything seemed to work, except the 4.2 Vaxen. My first clue was when
netstat -r left off the chars enclosed in <<<>>> below:
Routing tables
Destination Gateway Flags Refcnt Use Interface
127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 1 157 lo0
129.6.48.154 127.0.0.1 UH 0 3655 lo0
default 129.6.48.1 UG 0 10781 il0
129.6<<<.48>>> 129.6.48.154 U 2 151992 il0
I figured it had something to do with Marxism (class struggle :-), and
found the specific code, in /sys/netinet/in.c. Fortunately, all we had to
do was #ifdef out an `if' clause of two. Our changes are only the `#' lines.
#define FORCE_CLASS_C 1
/*
* Formulate an Internet address from network + host. Used in
* building addresses stored in the ifnet structure.
*/
struct in_addr
if_makeaddr(net, host)
int net, host;
{
u_long addr;
if (net < 128)
addr = (net << IN_CLASSA_NSHIFT) | host;
#ifndef FORCE_CLASS_C
else if (net < 65536)
addr = (net << IN_CLASSB_NSHIFT) | host;
#endif
else
addr = (net << IN_CLASSC_NSHIFT) | host;
addr = htonl(addr);
return (*(struct in_addr *)&addr);
}
/*
* Return the network number from an internet address.
*/
in_netof(in)
struct in_addr in;
{
register u_long i = ntohl(in.s_addr);
if (IN_CLASSA(i))
return (((i)&IN_CLASSA_NET) >> IN_CLASSA_NSHIFT);
#ifndef FORCE_CLASS_C
else if (IN_CLASSB(i))
return (((i)&IN_CLASSB_NET) >> IN_CLASSB_NSHIFT);
#endif
else
return (((i)&IN_CLASSC_NET) >> IN_CLASSC_NSHIFT);
}
/*
* Return the host portion of an internet address.
*/
in_lnaof(in)
struct in_addr in;
{
register u_long i = ntohl(in.s_addr);
if (IN_CLASSA(i))
return ((i)&IN_CLASSA_HOST);
#ifndef FORCE_CLASS_C
else if (IN_CLASSB(i))
return ((i)&IN_CLASSB_HOST);
#endif
else
return ((i)&IN_CLASSC_HOST);
}
Originally, we tried always forcing Class C, but it turns out there *is*
one Class A address we're interested in: 127.0.0.1, AKA localhost.
Interestingly enuf, it seems that Sunix and Dynix do this also (we don't
have Sun source; we do have Dynix, but it's offline so I can't check).
Thus, these systems DO THE RIGHT THING FOR THE WRONG REASON!!! They seem
to be FORCING CLASS C MODE!!! The reason it's the right thing to do is
that people seem to run on subnets anyway. I don't know what the gateway
does, or how it's set up, but it's a Vax 750 running 4.3.
But to get back to the original poster's question, my recommendation would
be to run your network on a Class C net. That is, the first number should
be 192 or higher, change the Vax and the PC's to use the same network
number as the Suns. Comments anyone?
Apologys to those of you who have to see this twice, but I wanted a wider
audience. Special apologys to Chris and my bro, who have to see it three
times, and to Bill Majurski (also of NBS), who had to live thru it.
(Root Boy) Jim Cottrell <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa>
National Bureau of Standards
Flamer's Hotline: (301) 975-5688
I'll show you MY telex number if you show me YOURS...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 87 12:13:56 EDT
From: Root Boy Jim <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa>
Subject: Re: fpa with MAGIC and Eagles with 2333
> From: Steve Levitan <levitan%pitt@relay.cs.net>
>
> We are thinking of hooking up a M2351 (eagle?) onto our machine. The
> eagle has been used for the past 3 years on a VAX/750 and the vms users
> claimed it was a 450 meg device. Sun setup claims that a M2351 is a 500+
> meg device. Is this a formating issue?
Probably. Also be aware that Sun only uses 46 sectors instead of 48, at
least on an XY450. However, even on a VAX, I get (48*20*842)/2=404Mbytes.
Even allowing for the fact that 1024 != 1000, I only get 413Mbytes. With
46 sectors/track, you are down to 388Mbytes.
> Also, we have a Xylogics 450/451
> controller and a M2333 260meg drive already. Can we just chain the new
> disk on that?
I hope so. You may have to assign them different drive type numbers in
DIAG. Also, beware of Sun's funny cabling. Run Standard A & B cables
directly from the controller to the drives. Good luck.
(Root Boy) Jim Cottrell <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa>
National Bureau of Standards
Flamer's Hotline: (301) 975-5688
Wait.. is this a FUN THING or the END of LIFE in Petticoat Junction??
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 87 12:19:37 EDT
From: Root Boy Jim <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa>
Subject: Re: slipping a cylinder
> From: deanm%tekgvs.tek.com@relay.cs.net
>
> I am trying to hook up a Fujitsu M2284 disk drive to a Sun 3/160 via a
> Zylogics 451 controller. For reasons which I will not go into, I believe
> there is a bad signal on the servo track for cylinder #650.
>
> Is there any way to "slip" this cylinder using the standard Sun diagnostic
> software, or by appropriate switch settings on the drive or controller?
I dunno from nothing about slipping. An alternate suggestion: Set up your
partition tables to avoid cylinder 650 altogether. We once had an Eagle
that lost all trace of cylinder 274. You couldn't even seek to it, it just
wasn't there.
And that's how I found the dark side of the force, and started messing
with partition tables.
(Root Boy) Jim Cottrell <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa>
National Bureau of Standards
Flamer's Hotline: (301) 975-5688
Either CONFESS now or we go to ``PEOPLE'S COURT''!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 87 22:05:35 EDT
From: ted@braggvax.arpa
Subject: Re: Sun-3 ASCII console problem (1)
As far as I know, Suns have always crashed when you have ascii consoles
which power down, or have their cables fall off. I don't think it has to
do with generating a spurious break, however. I think the sun looks at
the RS232 signals and refuses to work if DTR is not asserted. I think if
you strap DTR in your cable it will probably work.
Ted Nolan
ted@braggvax.arpa
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 87 17:23:06 bst
From: Malcolm Harper <mkh%prg.oxford.ac.uk@nss.cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Sun-3 ASCII console problem (2)
The circuit we use to prevent the Watchdog Reset which normally happens when
the terminal is unplugged from the Sun Console port (ttya/ttyb) is as follows.
To terminal To Sun
pin 3 <----:-----------------------------------------------------------< pin 2
| ________ _________________ ____________
| | | | | | 2200uf 16v |
:---| 470ohm |----| <- IN4002 diode |---:---| capacitor |--- pin 7
|________| |_________________| | |____________|
________ _________________ | -ve +ve
| | | | |
:---| 470ohm |----| <- IN4002 diode |---:
| |________| |_________________| | Types of diodes and
| ________ ___________________ / transistor, and values
| | | b| |/c of capacitor, are not
pin 2 >----+---| 4K7ohm |----| BC212L transistor | critical.
| |________| |___________________|\e
| _________________ \
| | | |
:-----------------| IN4002 diode -> |---:-------------------> pin 3
| |_________________|
| ________ _________________
| | | | |
:---| 22Kohm |----| IN4002 diode -> |----------------------- pin 25
|________| |_________________|
pin 7 ------------------------------------------------------------------ pin 7
We use only three wire connections, so connect pins 5, 6, 8 and 20
together at the Sun end, and appropriate control line connections at the
terminal end. This circuit is permanently connected to the Sun end; any
disconnection must be at the terminal end.
If the terminal is unplugged, the transistor is turned on by the negative
reference voltage present at pin 25 of the Sun serial port, and hence
pulls pin 3 of the Sun port negative. This causes the Sun to believe
there is still a terminal plugged in.
Acknowledgements to Andrew Newman and Paul Williams who designed and built it.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 87 22:10:19 EDT
From: ted@braggvax.arpa
Subject: Re: pid ### killed due to swap problems in getxfile
I have also seen this message on suns that are trying to do too much. In
particular, a 2 Meg sun 2/50 running sunOS 2.2 will get this message if it
tries to run more than 1 qcalc spreadsheet at once. The only thing to do
is quit one of them.
Ted Nolan
Ted@braggvax.arpa
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 87 07:47:11 +0200
From: mcvax!tut.fi!jh@uunet.uu.net (Juha Hein{nen)
Subject: Re: Sun support and a question
>Sun has sold you a product and they should stand behind their product.
>But how can they even demonstrate their willingness to support their
>customers when they are never given the opportunity to do so?
This I can't resist to comment. In Europe I have found Sun support in
software problems completely nonexisting. At least three times I have
contacted local Sun representatives concerning various problems. I have
also tried to cc the problems to Sun European HQ in England. After
receiving no answers whatsoever, I tried to e-mail to sun-hotline (or
something like it) in the U.S. Things seem to be better there since next
day I got back a reply that asked me not to ask anything from them! So
much for Sun standing behind their product.
Now when writing, I may as well give the list an example of a problem that
I have tried to ask from Sun. It concers with telnet connections from
Bridge terminal servers to diskless Suns like 3/50. For some reason these
connections get everytime disconnected usually during long listing to the
terminal. It has never happened when connection is made to a server like
3/160 nor any other machine on our campus.
Juha Heinanen
Tampere Univ. of Technology
Finland
jh@tut.fi (Internet), tut!jh (UUCP)
[[ The comment was (obviously) not directed at people like you. It was
directed at those who complain about Sun bugs without ever even trying to
tell Sun about those bugs. I welcome and even encourage comments like
this about Sun. It keeps them honest. Obviously, you have given Sun the
opportunity to "stand behind their product" and you do not feel as if they
have done so. --wnl ]]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 87 12:39:36 CST
From: AARON KONSTAM <79343382%TRINITY.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu>
Subject: More on WYSIWUG editors
I was suprised to see the suggestion that anyone who wants a WYSIWUG
wordprocessor would settle for Tex.
Frame Maker is such a word processor that currently uses a special font
set to do mathematical equations. The company tells me that in the future
they will incorporate a facility like EQN to do equations. This product
gives the functionality of Microsoft Word and MacDraw on the Mac. It is
however much more WYSIWUG when printing on a laser printer than the Mac
wordprocessors are.
For us it is expensive (about $1700 per workstation the first year) but
some may think its cheap compared to other products on the Sun.
The company will send you a free demo copy. There address is:
Frame Technology Company
2911 Zanker Rd.
San Jose, CA 95134
(408) 433-3311
Personally I like to use TeX or troff (with eqn) better but people who
want WYSIWUG word processors in my experience hate these systems.
Aaron H. Konstam Trinity University
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 87 16:00:16 -0400
From: becker@cs.rochester.edu
Subject: Overloaded Ethernet
How do I know when my ethernet is overloaded? We are getting some
collisions. I can force a collision most any time from my Sun 3/50 by
copying a large file around ("cp /vmunix /tmp", for example). On our Sun
3/180 file servers, we get ~4% collisions (collisions / outgoing packets).
To me this seems significant. What do other folks think?
Assuming that our ether is overloaded, we're trying to figure out the best
way of segmenting our ethernet. We have some physical contraints. We
are on 2 floors of a building with most of the servers on the lower floor
and workstations scattered in offices/labs throughout both floors. Our
ethernet cable wraps arounds both floors twice. Here's what we are
thinking about doing:
(loop 1) (loop 2)
----- ----- --> upper floor cable (2 loops)
| |
Repeater Repeater
| |
----- ----- --> lower floor cable (2 loops)
| |
---LanBridge---
So, we would have 2 ethernet segments. Both segments would exist on both
floors with the lanbridge connecting them.
Has anyone else done something similiar? Has anyone ever run NFS over
lanbridges? We're interested in suggestions, war stories, etc.
Tim Becker.
becker@cs.rochester.edu
------------------------------
Date: 22 Sep 87 17:35:23 GMT
From: amdcad!dgcad!jayaram@decwrl.dec.com (Jayaram Kalpathy)
Subject: Rwhod problems when Yellow Pages is running on a SUN
We have a problem with rwhod and the associated programs - ruptime, rwho,
etc. Everything was fine until we brought up Yellow Pages on the network,
but when we did, all the Sun's on yellow pages don't show up in the
ruptime/rwho list anymore.
Our NFS network consists of Sun's and DG's. The DG's are on YP, but don't
have any problems. Also, if we take a Sun off YP, the rwhod on that
machine starts working fine.
The listening end of 'rwhod' seems to be fine because all the machines
seem to know about the DG's and the one Sun that's not on YP, but the
broadcast end seems to be running into problems.
Any solutions ??? Thanks.
Jayaram Kalpathy {decwrl,ucbvax}!amdcad!dgcad!jayaram
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 87 10:24:30 EDT
From: ted@braggvax.arpa
Subject: Panic 0?
Has anybody seen the message
panic: zero
syncing disks... 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 done
on a sun? In particular, we have had it several times running 2.2 on a 2/50
lately.
Thanks
Ted Nolan
ted@braggvax.arpa
------------------------------
Date: Thu 24 Sep 1987 13:16:54
From: rac@vax135.att.com
Subject: Help needed with console device
We have a SUN 3/280 running GENERIC 3.2, and would like to do the
following. Have ttya be the console, and the color workstation run a
getty. Making ttya the console is easy, and we have done this already.
The problem is that we can't use the workstation unless we login on the
console, and run suntools -d /dev/cgtwo0 -m /dev/mouse -k /dev/kbd. We
don't want the workstation to be the console, so that anyone can crash the
machine with a "L1 a" The only way that I see that we can fix this problem
is to build a new device, that does the same thing as /dev/console without
actually being the console. To do this we would need to edit cons.c, which
is not distributed by SUN. We have spoke to SUN software support, and
they said we would have to run suntools from the console device. There are
2 problems with this. 1) The console is not accessable to users, and 2)
we don't use Suntools.
Anyone out there have a fix?
Bob Clark AT&T Bell Laboratories
ARPA: rac@vax135.att.com
UUCP: {ucbvax | ihnp4}vax135!rac
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 87 12:06:09 EDT
From: wmt%sonny@proteon.com (Willie Tsang)
Subject: PostScript previewing on Sun?
Does anyone know if there is any package that accepts PostScript files and
allows you to preview the output on a Sun screen (e.g. before sending off
to the printer?)
--- Willie Tsang
Wmt@Monk.Proteon.Com
[[ Since NeWS uses Postscript as a communications medium, I imagine that a
generic NeWS window will suffice for most Postscript files. But until
NeWS is released, I don't know what you can do. --wnl ]]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 87 12:15:04 PDT
From: suneast!alex!drose@sun.com (Dave Rosenlund)
Subject: Looking for PC-NFS Reference Sites
We here at Sun's PC Compatibility Products Business Unit, the guys & gals
that brought you PC-NFS, are looking for a few good PC-NFS users. We'd
like to line up 2 - 3 PC-NFS 'reference sites' in each region of the
country that potential customers could speak with on an OCCASIONAL basis.
The only requirement will be that you must be willing to take an
occasional phone call (or email) from the unenlightened and carry on a
candid conversation about your experiences with PC-NFS for a few minutes.
We would ensure that you would not be bombarded with calls.
If selected as a reference site you will be able to discontinue your
involvment with a simple call or email to us.
If you are interested please fill out the form below and mail to
...!sun!suneast!drose & ...!sun!suneast!cbilafer.
Thanks in advance!!!
dave
David Rosenlund
Product Technical Support
PC Compatibility Products
Sun Microsystems
...!sun!suneast!drose
------------Cut here & return-------------
Company Name: Contact Name(s):
City & State : Phone Number(s):
Email Address(s):
How long using PC-NFS?:
How many PCs?:
What class(es) (8086,80286,80386)?:
Controller(s) used (3C501, NIC, 5010)?:
How many & what kind of servers?:
What class addressing (A,B, or C)?:
Using sub-nets?:
Using Sun SunLink products?:
(If yes please list)
Any MACs at site?:
_______________________________________
------------------------------
Date: 23 Sep 87 17:37:15 GMT
From: fsimmons@ub.d.umn.edu (Frank Simmons)
Subject: A/D converters for SUN workstations?
I would like to know if anyone is using a SUN workstation to do A/D and if
a diskless variety is being used, what is the upper bound on sampling
rates before data is lost during the storage to a server.
Thanks
Frank Simmons
UMD Computing Services
Univ of Minn,Duluth
10 University Drive
Duluth MN 55812
ATT : (218) 726-8849
BITNET : FSIMMONS@UMNDUL
CSNET : FSIMMONS@UB.D.UMN.EDU
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 87 22:42:17 PDT
From: Choi Wan <wchoi%ketri.etri.re.kr@relay.cs.net>
Subject: Color laser beam printers?
We want to get an information for Colour Laser Beam Printer. We have a
plan to purchase the colour LBP which supports SUN colour workstation. If
you know the info or address of that cooperation, please let me know !!
Wan Choi (:-))
Research Associate
Postal Address: ETRI, System Engineering Environments Section.
P.O. Box 8, Dae Dog Dan Ji
Chungnam, Korea
Uucp Address: - seismo!mcvax!ketri.etri.re.kr!wchoi
Csnet Address: wchoi%ketri.etri.re.kr@relay.cs.net.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 87 18:43:17 EDT
From: JHU UNIX Development Group <mwh_adev%JHUNIX.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu>
Subject: troff previewer?
Does anyone know of a troff previewer for Suns?
Jon Kay
------------------------------
Date: 24 Sep 87 19:32:10 GMT
From: dave@rosesun.rosemount.com (Dave Marquardt)
Subject: ANSYS users?
We are considering the purchase of a Sun-3/280 for the purposes of running
ANSYS, and would like to get in touch with anybody using Suns for ANSYS
before we do. If you are using ANSYS, or know someone who is, please
contact me. Specifically, I'd like to know how well the system works,
whether you've had any problems, and comparisons to ANSYS on other
machines, like VAXen. Thanks.
Dave Marquardt
------------------------------
Date: 23 Sep 87 18:48:44 GMT
From: bunce@unccvax.UUCP (Timothy Bunce)
Subject: An Englishman going home...please redirect help
Hello again.
As a follow-up to my recent posting asking for help on a Sun multi-user
graphics project, I have had to change my travel plans rather
dramatically.
I am leaving Charlotte, North Carolina, and returning to London England
this evening! I am therefore unable to read any net news or email that
might come this way - Ouch! :-(
Please, if you could be of any help, now or over the comming months, write
to my home address in England (given below).
Thankyou again. -- Tim Bunce.
An Englishman abroad. New to nets (any nets!). Temporarily at UNC-Charlotte
TPhone: {USofA} (704)549-1463 or (704)549-1517. {UK(London)} 01-541-1306
Snail: Tim Bunce, 155 Villiers Road, Kingston-upon-Thames, Surrey, England.
------------------------------
End of SUN-Spots Digest
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