phil@Rice.edu (William LeFebvre) (01/26/89)
I just got this Friday from our local Sun office. Thought some readers
might just possibly be interested (is that an understatement?).
PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT 3/50 Upgrade
--------------------
Only the flat-top 3/50 versions are upgradable. This version has been
shipping since July 1987. At this time we are unable to announce anything
for the dimple-top 3/50's but several possible alternatives are under
evaluation.
The upgrades have 75 to 90 day availability and are priced as follows:
Upgrades for flat-top 3/50s:
UG3/60-4F Upgrade 3/50 CPU to 3/60 CPU w/4MB $4,950
UG3/60-8F Upgrade 3/50 CPU to 3/60 CPU w/8MB $6,650
UG3/60-12F Upgrade 3/50 CPU to 3/60 CPU w/12MB $10,050
UG3/60-16F Upgrade 3/50 CPU to 3/60 CPU w/16MB $13,450
UG3/60-20F Upgrade 3/50 CPU to 3/60 CPU w/20MB $16,850
UG3/60-24F Upgrade 3/50 CPU to 3/60 CPU w/24MB $20,250
Customers may install the upgrade themselves or call Sun to install. It
is covered by a 90 day warranty. If a service agreement covers the system,
Sun will install the upgrade at no charge as a courtesy to the customer.
This upgrade offers customers the best solution to capacity constrained
3/50s. The 3/60 upgrade is a high quality, high performance solution.
Internal evaluation of 3/50 add-on solutions has indicated they may cause
possible reliability problems such as:
a. Erratic and unpredictable failures due to exceeding the
internal power supply capacity.
b. Increased failures due to air flow restrictions and increased
heat dissipation.
c. Incompatibility of hardware and software with various
of the CPU when married with an add-on product.
d. Damage to CPU on installation and de-installation.
e. Unforeseen difficulties due to past and future design changes.
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
-------------------
1. How do I know if I have a dimple-top or flat-top system
The older style dimple-top systems were built prior to July'87 and are
attached directly to the 3/50 base with the ball of the monitor into
the dimple of the base. These systems would have serial numbers
beginning with numbers less than 730. The newer flat-top style have
monitors resting atop the base unit.
2. What do I get with the upgrade?
The upgrades for the flat-top offer the exchange of the 3/50 CPU board
for the 3/60 CPU. Also included is the installation documentation and
3/60 feature tape.
3. Will other upgrades be offered for the 3/50?
We plan to offer upgrades to future Motorola and SPARC based products
as they become available. We do not foresee availability of these
upgrades for 3-6 months after the base product is announced.
4. Why has Sun not come out with its own memory add-on for the 3/50 like
the ones from Clearpoint, Helios and SunFlower?
Several designs were proposed and some actually were built and tested.
Each and every one was rejected due to the lack of confidence in
product quality and reliability that could be achieved when evaluating
the complete system including the add-on memory.
5. What if we choose to go with one of the 3/50 add-on products?
If the add-on product specially modifies the Sun product such as the
soldering of components, Sun will not honor the warranty and will
support the product on a T&M best efforts basis only. This applies as
well to any service agreement covering the product.
If the add-on product is reversible, then Sun will continue to support
the Sun system and the Sun components, however the customer must
properly install/de-install the add-on product for service to be
performed. Also, should the addition of the add-on memory cause a
failure or increase the failure rate of the Sun system, then the
customer will be liable for T&M charges.
6. Will Sun be able to ship these upgrades in a timely manner?
You should quote a 75-90 day lead time. We have a commitment from
manufacturing for enough boards to meet our forecasted requirement. We
expect availability to be less than 75-90 days in Q4.
William LeFebvre
<phil@Rice.edu>cyrus@pprg.unm.edu (Tait Cyrus) (02/03/89)
phil@Rice.edu (William LeFebvre) writes: >... >PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT 3/50 Upgrade... >Upgrades for flat-top 3/50s: > UG3/60-4F Upgrade 3/50 CPU to 3/60 CPU w/4MB $4,950 > UG3/60-8F Upgrade 3/50 CPU to 3/60 CPU w/8MB $6,650 > UG3/60-12F Upgrade 3/50 CPU to 3/60 CPU w/12MB $10,050 > UG3/60-16F Upgrade 3/50 CPU to 3/60 CPU w/16MB $13,450 > UG3/60-20F Upgrade 3/50 CPU to 3/60 CPU w/20MB $16,850 > UG3/60-24F Upgrade 3/50 CPU to 3/60 CPU w/24MB $20,250 This seems to me to be a BAD deal. Why should I spend $6,650 to upgrade to a roughly 4 MIP machine when I can pay ~$9,000 for a 10 MIP machine from DEC (Vaxstation 3100). Sun has got to do better than this. I am NOT mentioning this to start a fight as to who makes better machines because I REALLY like Sun produces (that is all we have in our research group). I am mentioning this because Sun is charging $1,650/MIP while other vendors are MUCH lower; DEC for example, with the 3100, is ~$900/MIP. When is Sun going to come out with a machine using the 50 MIPS Bipolar Tech. chip that was promised 4Q88 (yes last year)? --- W. Tait Cyrus (505) 277-0806 e-mail: cyrus@pprg.unm.edu University of New Mexico Dept of ECE - Parallel Processing Research Group Albuquerque, New Mexico 87131
shj@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Steve Jay) (02/03/89)
I'm underwhelmed by Sun's offer to upgrade my 3/50 to an 8 MB 3/60 for $6,650. Based on prices listed in the June 27, 1988, pricelist ($4995 for 3/50M, $11,900 for 8 MB 3/60M), Sun is essentially offering to give me the orignal purchase price for my 3/50 if I trade it for a 3/60. I guess that's generous, but it misses the point. Sun seems to be saying that you need a mimimum of 8 MB to run reasonably on OS 4, and their cheapest 8 MB machine is $11,900. That's over twice as much as the minimum useful machine under OS 3. It's absolutely absurd to have an OS "upgrade" require a machine that's twice as expensive as before. I suspect that a lot of Sun's success in recent years was based on the $5000 entry level machine. Things are quite different at $12000. Customers do not appreciate the forced obsolescence of equipment that they bought only a year or two ago. DEC was always good at doing that. I wonder how many current Sun customers gave up on DEC just because they did it one too many times. I don't think that Sun purposely tried to force us to buy new machines by making the new OS require more memory. I suspect they just didn't notice that 4 MB performace went to hell as they worked on OS 4, probably because all the developers had at least 8 MB. I think Sun could fix the problem (make OS 4 work reasonably on 3/50's) very easily: take all the machines away from the developers except for 3/50's. Within a few months, you can be sure they would figure out ways to make OS 4 reasonable for themselves. Does anyone remember when 4 MB was A WHOLE LOT of memory? [[ I do. The first computer I ever worked on only had two memory sizes for jobs (measured in 16-bit words): 10K and 16K. Sigh. --wnl ]] Steve Jay domain: shj@ultra.com Ultra Network Technologies Internet: ultra!shj@ames.arc.nasa.gov 101 Daggett Drive uucp: ...ames!ultra!shj San Jose, CA 95134 408-922-0100
chuck@trantor.harris-atd.com (Chuck Musciano) (02/03/89)
Someone here at Harris noticed that if you want a 16 meg upgrade, it is cheaper to buy two 8 meg upgrades, at $6,650 each (total: $13,300) than a single 16 meg upgrade (total: $13,450). You can move the extra SIMMs to your machine, and save the motherboard as a spare! Let's talk gouging: Sun is charging $3400/4 megs of memory for any upgrade beyond 8 megs. Why can't you upgrade dimple tops? What is the problem? Clearance? Cooling? As the owners of 12 dimple tops, what do WE do? [[ Call Clearpoint, maybe? --wnl ]] Chuck Musciano Advanced Technology Department Harris Corporation (407) 727-6131 ARPA: chuck@trantor.harris-atd.com
gary@hplabs.hp.com (Gary A. Cattelino) (02/03/89)
In article <2495@kalliope.rice.edu>, phil@Rice.edu (William LeFebvre) writes: > PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT 3/50 Upgrade ... > Only the flat-top 3/50 versions are upgradable. This version has been Too bad. I have dimple-top Sun 3/50's. > 2. What do I get with the upgrade? > The upgrades for the flat-top offer the exchange of the 3/50 CPU board > for the 3/60 CPU. Also included is the installation documentation and > 3/60 feature tape. Hmmm. I suspect the upgrade involves more than just replacing the CPU. If replacing the CPU is all that's required, then why isn't the upgrade offered for dimple-top models? I think Sun plans to swap the entire base box with a new one. By swaping the whole box, you then get the proper power supply to go with your new Sun 3/60. -- Gary A. Cattelino Rockwell International sun!sunkist!arcturus!gary gary@arcturus.UUCP