moran@ai.sri.com (Doug Moran) (05/08/89)
Sun-Spots: In trying to find out when the HM, hi-resolution (1600x1280) monochrome, monitor would be available on the 4/60 (SPARCstation-1), I have been informed that Sun will be discontinuing the HM and plans to not offer it on new products (whether or not it will be available on the 4/60 was ambiguous). I was told that the reason for discontinuing the HM monitor is that it accounts for such a tiny fraction of the monitors that Suns sells, and therefore Sun cannot continue to justify supporting it. Sun also believes that customers actively dislike it, but I believe that a large part of the problem is that Sun has not effectively promoted and supported it. If you don't see the need for a 2Mpixel monitor: fine, please don't flame me. If you like the HM, please let Sun know (through your sales rep) and maybe we can get the decision reversed. If you want an approx 2Mpixel monitor, but didn't like the HM, please let Sun know why (so we don't lose this functionality altogether). Below I have included comments derived from those I sent to Sun (through my sales rep). If you are sending a message to Sun, please feel free to use any excerpts. __________ Advantages of the HM monitor over the M: One obvious advantage is that you can have two 80-column windows that either don't overlap or that barely overlap (depending on your choice of fonts). Another is that you have enough window height to display a full page of text in a readable, accurate representation of the fonts used (we use dvitool from the UCB Vortex package). On an M monitor, displaying the full page is just beyond the ragged edge of the monitor's capabilities. Note that this is not a problem for text previewers that use only a rough approximation to the font that will appear on the printed page (eg Interleaf). This ability (to accurately and legibly render a full page) alone endears the HM to my users who do a lot of text formatting and it would seem to be a big seller for Sun if it promoted it in this market. As a programmer and system administrator, my experience with the HM monitor is that I actively move between 2-3 window and also make use of 2-4 additional windows. With an M monitor, I work primarily in a single window, occasionally moving to 1-2 other windows. My primary programming project is a decision-support tool that makes use of multiple windows. On the M monitor, I typically have 3-4 windows open at a time (with significant overlaps); on the HM, I can have the same windows open with no overlap or more windows open with only minor overlap. The additional screen space permits me to fly through scenarios that feel awkward on a 1Mpixel monitor (I frequently wind up using a (1Mpixel) color monitor for demos so that I can use a projector or so that I can daisy-chain monitors together). Other users whose Suns have HM monitor have commented about feelings of "claustrophobia" when working with people who have only an M. I have used SunWrite, SunPaint and SunDraw on both the M and the HM and the difference in the method of operation was like night and day. On the HM, I just took the primary "control panels" and "pinned" them to the screen, while on the M monitor, I was constantly shuffling and opening control panels. The difference in ease-of-use made them feel like different programs. I suspect that this is typical of a large family of such programs. With the availability of 12-16 MIPS workstations, I expect that an increasing number of people will be using increasingly sophisticated productivity tools, and I expect the available screen space will have an increasingly noticeable effect on the effectiveness with which those tools can be used. In my opinion, it is not much of an exaggeration to say that, when dealing with text-based programs, the difference between a 1Mpixel and 2Mpixel monitor is almost as great as the difference between a "glass tty" and a 1Mpixel monitor (remember, a very primitive form of "windowing" is supported on glass ttys by EMACS and other programs). In my group, the HM monitor is preferred over the M monitor by 80-90% of the current users and those who anticipate moving to Suns in the near future. Suspected Reasons for Poor Sales of HM monitor: 1. Lack of public exposure: I do not remember ever having seen an HM at a trade show (most monitors at trade shows are color monitors). Many (most?) sales offices don't have one to demo to customers--mine didn't, but arranged for me to see one at a neighboring office. 2. Inappropriate default font. The standard system font is effectively unreadable on the HM monitor. That you can use a font other than the default one is not something many users realize, and none of my "normal" users were able to find the information in the manuals on how to change it. I suspect that many users who have been able to try an HM monitor didn't like it because they were looking at the default font. [For those who don't know how to set the fonts: it can be done either with "Font" item in the "SunView" category of "defaultsedit" or by setting the environment variable DEFAULT_FONT. The fonts are in /usr/lib/fonts/fixedwidthfonts. -- DBM] 3. Suitable fonts: Of my users with HM monitors, 2/3's use the screen.b.14 font and 1/3 use screen.b.16. Many customers may not be aware of the latter option because it first appeared on the SunOS 4.0 tape, which many customers have not yet installed and many of those who did may not have notice this minor addition. In my experience, users with SunOS 3.x systems who found the screen.b.14 font too small did not like the cour.* fonts and thus were forced to choose gallant.r.19, which is so large that it negates the advantage of having the HM. The screen.b.14 font is a little small for many users, and screen.b.16 is a little large (two 80-column windows overlap by 1.5 characters. If a screen.b.15 font were available, I estimate that 2/3's of my users would choose it and 1/3 would use screen.b.14. 4. Packaging: The HM monitor is offered as an alternative to the M monitor on both the 3/60 and the 4/110, but is listed as a package only on the 3/60. My experience advising colleagues on configuring systems indicates that many customers don't realize that the HM can be used with the 4/110 (you order a 4/110S with option 252D). 5. Pricing: a system with the HM monitor is priced $1000 more than a comparable one with an M monitor. However, if you look in the Spare Part price list (mine is dated 1March88), the HM monitor is listed for only $400 more than the M ($2200 vs $1800). A $1000 difference raises questions about whether or not the HM is worth it (my group came very close in several instance to not ordering it -- I had to argue long and hard for it. However, the users are very glad to have gotten them and don't want to have to go back to an M); at $400, we would choose it almost automatically. I presume that similar situations exist in many other groups. The absence of an HM package for the 4/110 means that you pay 20% more for maintenance on the basic system than you would if you had been able to buy it in a package (based on the price for the 4/110M and the fact that the 3/60M and 3/60HM have the same maintenance prices). -- Doug Moran, AI Center, SRI International
bob@cis.ohio-state.edu (Bob Sutterfield) (05/11/89)
People who like looking at small, sharp fonts like the HM for all the reasons you describe - you can fit more on the screen. People who like looking at large, sharp fonts like the HM because they can put the same amount on the screen, but the fonts use more pixels per pica of height. This makes for fewer jaggies and smoother curves, which looks much nicer to the eye than the M monitor.
dav@hplabs.hp.com (David L. Markowitz) (05/12/89)
In article <8905011806.AA05219@muir.ai.sri.com>, moran@ai.sri.com (Doug Moran) writes: > In trying to find out when the HM, hi-resolution (1600x1280) monochrome, > monitor would be available on the 4/60 (SPARCstation-1), I have been > informed that Sun will be discontinuing the HM and plans to not offer it > on new products (whether or not it will be available on the 4/60 was > ambiguous). > > I was told that the reason for discontinuing the HM monitor is that it > accounts for such a tiny fraction of the monitors that Suns sells, and > therefore Sun cannot continue to justify supporting it. Sun also believes > that customers actively dislike it, but I believe that a large part of the > problem is that Sun has not effectively promoted and supported it. We have a few of these beasts. We find that we DON'T like them. There are two main reasons: 1) Text too small - causes eye strain. I know you can change your fonts, and some of my users do this, but with most of our screens 1152x900 they have to maintain two .defaults files, and even that doesn't help with the text embedded in icons. Make that bigger, and then you can only fit a few chars in the icon (which is still 64x64). 2) Lack of support from third-party software vendors. In particular, we use Interleaf TPS and Cadre TeamWork on most of our stations. Interleaf uses only the 1152x900 part of the screen, and "N point" fonts come out smaller and harder to read. You can't use a bigger font, because they would print as bigger fonts. TeamWork can use the entire screen, but uses a fixed font with no way to change it. If Sun and other vendors would give an option to use N point @ 100 dpi fonts, then the enhanced resolution of the HM would pay off. Just using it for more "real estate" is not sufficient in my book. David L. Markowitz Rockwell International ...!sun!sunkist!arcturus!dav dav@arcturus.UUCP The above opinions are merely that, and only mine.
ellery@trantor.harris-atd.com (Ellery Chan) (05/16/89)
Doug Moran <moran@ai.sri.com> writes: > If you want an approx 2Mpixel >monitor, but didn't like the HM, please let Sun know why (so we don't lose >this functionality altogether). The added resolution lets you see a lot more text, if you are willing to look at smaller, but more readable characters. However, I think the market for high-res monochrome is limited; if it were a 2Mpixel color display there would be more takers. Graphics applications benefit most from the extra resolution, but so many of them require grayscale or color. >Suspected Reasons for Poor Sales of HM monitor: > >1. Lack of public exposure: I do not remember ever having seen an HM >... >2. Inappropriate default font. The standard system font is effectively >... >3. Suitable fonts: Of my users with HM monitors, 2/3's use the screen.b.14 >... I agree that Sun didn't back this product very well, and it seems a little strange for them to be giving up on it just now, with resolution- independent windowing systems imminent. Under SunView, everything is smaller on an HM display. Not only is text tinier, icons are smaller, and buttons and scrollbars and other mousable objects become harder to hit. X11/NeWS could ameliorate this problem, but I guess it's moot if Sun drops this product. Ellery Chan | ARPA : ellery@trantor.harris-atd.com Harris Corp., MS 3A-1912 | USENET: ...!uunet!x102a!trantor!ellery PO Box 37, Melbourne, FL 32902 | AT&T : (407) 729-3364
pjg@urth.cc.buffalo.edu (Paul Graham) (05/17/89)
i've complained to my salesdroid about dropping the HM but he still insists that it will be available from special products. this despite a sun sales memo announcing the demise of the HM and the 19" greyscale. the greyscale will be replaced by the 17" grey. orders will be accepted through this year. we only have a couple here so i can see the merit in sun's position. i just don't like it. paul
bob@cis.ohio-state.edu (Bob Sutterfield) (05/26/89)
From: moran@ai.sri.com (Doug Moran) Original-Date: Mon, 1 May 89 11:06:22 PDT X-Sun-Spots-Digest: Volume 7, Issue 274, message 12 of 12 In trying to find out when the HM, hi-resolution (1600x1280) monochrome, monitor would be available on the 4/60 (SPARCstation-1), I have been informed that Sun will be discontinuing the HM and plans to not offer it on new products (whether or not it will be available on the 4/60 was ambiguous). I found out today that a highly-placed person within Sun's engineering organization expressed displeasure at the HM's abrupt discontinuation, so the current plan is for it to be "phased out" somewhat more gradually. It will (according to this source) be supported on the 4/60 and perhaps the 3/80 as well. No word about the 4/300 series. This, of course, has nothing to say about availability (how soon?) or duration (how long till it's orphaned?), but it's at least an encouraging sign that Engineering can have an effect on Marketing :-)