peters@cc.msstate.edu (Frank W. Peters) (05/15/89)
Hello, We are in the very first stages of purchasing a laser printer to serve a small network of suns (3/160 serving 7 3/50s three of which would be using the printer on a regular basis). I'd like to hear people's opinions of the issues involved and evaluations of various printers. We'd also like to hear what software exists to help support such devices (I've heard mention of a package called transcript?). Thanks --Frank Systems & Networks Programmer | Mississippi State University Phone: (601) 325-2942 | Computing Center and Services Internet: peters@CC.MsState.Edu | Post Office Drawer CC BITNET: PETERS@MSSTATE.BITNET | Mississippi State, MS. 39762
mark@uunet.uu.net (Mark Lawrence) (05/24/89)
Two options: a. you're willing and experienced enuf to futz with 3rd party products b. you'd rather not spend the time/energy/etc. If a., then you can look at things like the NEC LC-890 or Qume (look for absolutely the best price for a printer that understands postscript and works off serial). And then buy something like devps from Thalatta or Elan (from wherever) and install it. If b., then buy the SunApple machine with Transcript. No futzing necessary. I went route a. and after almost a year of futzing with NEC, weird line levels, buffer (parallel/serial convertor) boxes and no transcript-clone software, I think that if I had it to do all over again, I would have gone route b.
perl@cs.utexas.edu (Robert Perlberg) (06/10/89)
In article <8905151454.AA01264@Jester.CC.MsState.Edu>, peters@cc.msstate.edu (Frank W. Peters) writes: >We are in the very first stages of purchasing a laser printer to serve a >small network of suns (3/160 serving 7 3/50s three of which would be using >the printer on a regular basis). I'd like to hear people's opinions of >the issues involved and evaluations of various printers. We'd also like >to hear what software exists to help support such devices (I've heard >mention of a package called transcript?). We have an Apple LaserWriter, an Imagen 24/300, and an HP LaserJet 2686A. The Imagen is a very old model. They admit to having a lot of problems with it and claim that the new ones are much better, but I can't vouch for that. The Imagen uses a language called Impress for which we have software supplied by Imagen which includes everything you need to use the printer on a Sun, including the printcap entry. They have newer printers which also understand postscript. We don't really know how to use Impress and don't have any software that lets us do anything sophisticated with it. We can just print ASCII files in portrait, landscape, or landscape with two columns. The only reason we use this printer is because it is faster than any of the desk top printers (the Imagen stands on the floor). The LaserWriter was purchased from Sun as a "Sun LaserWriter", but it's really an Apple with a Sun logo pasted on. The LaserWriter speaks postscript and we got the transcript package for it from Sun. Transcript includes everything you need to use the LaserWriter, or any other postscript printer (or at least, that's what I would assume to be the case; I haven't yet tried to use it with another postscript printer), including the printcap entry. It also comes with a set of front end programs for converting various types of files (ASCII, Sun rasterfiles, troff, etc.) into postscript, with various options (different fonts, sizes, orientations, title blocks, image scaling, etc.). Sun does not support the HP LaserJet, but I was able to write all of the software we needed for it myself. And Sun was very helpful even though they don't officially support it. I asked Sun a question about getting the handshaking to work and they sent me a printcap entry and rasterfile filter that were submitted by another user. The only advantage of the HP is that it's cheap. Its major disadvantages are that it can't print in any combination of font, size, and orientation (only those that are supported by your font cartridge), it has limited memory, so it can't print high resolution rasterfiles, it has no graphics capabilities other than bitmap printing, it doesn't run postscript which makes it impossible to use all of the neat postscript stuff that gets posted to the net all the time. and it's next to impossible to mix graphics and text. The HP series II has more memory, but I don't know whether that makes much of a difference since I haven't yet tried to use a series II with the Sun. The LaserWriter has none of these problems. Robert Perlberg Dean Witter Reynolds Inc., New York phri!{dasys1 | philabs | mancol}!step!perl -- "I am not a language ... I am a free man!"
henry@cs.utexas.edu (Henry Spencer) (06/23/89)
>The only advantage of the HP is that it's cheap. Its major disadvantages >are that it can't print in any combination of font, size, and orientation >(only those that are supported by your font cartridge), it has limited >memory, so it can't print high resolution rasterfiles, it has no graphics >capabilities other than bitmap printing, it doesn't run postscript which >makes it impossible to use all of the neat postscript stuff that gets >posted to the net all the time. and it's next to impossible to mix >graphics and text. The HP series II has more memory, but I don't know >whether that makes much of a difference... Sounds like you've got the original LaserJet, which was indeed pretty dumb. It is still possible to do typesetting on it if you go very easy on the fonts; there is nothing hard about mixing text and graphics, and missing characters can be drawn in by suitable software. The later models, starting with the now-obsolete LaserJet Plus and including (I think) all current ones, have more memory, downloadable fonts, and somewhat improved graphics, and are generally better. They are arguably superior to PostScript machines for bulk text printing, because the speed/dollar ratio is much better -- PostScript is hard to interpret quickly without spending a lot on hardware. We've used them for years and are very happy with them. You do need suitable software; they trade off hardware smarts for cost, and so the host has to supply the intelligence. If you are doing serious graphics or are prone to the "ransom note" style of typography, however, you definitely want a PostScript printer. We now have one of those too. Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
jae@lll-crg.llnl.gov (John Eadie) (07/03/89)
In article <4042@kalliope.rice.edu> utzoo!henry@cs.utexas.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >X-Sun-Spots-Digest: Volume 8, Issue 47, message 1 of 15 > >>The only advantage of the HP is that it's cheap. Its major disadvantages |Sounds like you've got the original LaserJet, which was indeed pretty |dumb. It is still possible to do typesetting on it if you go very easy on |the fonts; there is nothing hard about mixing text and graphics, and |missing characters can be drawn in by suitable software. The later |models, starting with the now-obsolete LaserJet Plus and including (I |think) all current ones, have more memory, downloadable fonts, and |somewhat improved graphics, and are generally better. They are arguably |superior to PostScript machines for bulk text printing, because the |speed/dollar ratio is much better -- PostScript is hard to interpret |quickly without spending a lot on hardware. We've used them for years and |are very happy with them. You do need suitable software; they trade off |hardware smarts for cost, and so the host has to supply the intelligence. | |If you are doing serious graphics or are prone to the "ransom note" style ^^^^^ |of typography, however, you definitely want a PostScript printer. We now ^^^ Yeah. PostScript is necessary here and there. If you're using different fonts of the same typeface, say. Or perhaps EVEN, yes, using more than one typeface, or, making the face fit the the job, kerning with care, trying to communicate with emphasis and clarity .. that is to say, where one is concerned about GOOD Typography. So to say, when your ransome notes are IMPORTANT for you. john John Eadie Computing Art Inc (416) 536-9951 E-Mail: jae@c-art.UUCP | {uunet,suncan}!c-art!jae | sun!jeadie
henry@uunet.uu.net (Henry Spencer) (07/22/89)
>|[HP LaserJets] You do need suitable software; they trade off >|hardware smarts for cost, and so the host has to supply the intelligence. >|If you are doing serious graphics or are prone to the "ransom note" style > ^^^^^ >|of typography, however, you definitely want a PostScript printer... > >Yeah. PostScript is necessary here and there. If you're using different >fonts of the same typeface, say. Or perhaps EVEN, yes, using more than >one typeface, or, making the face fit the the job, kerning with care, >trying to communicate with emphasis and clarity .. that is to say, where >one is concerned about GOOD Typography. Nonsense. A LaserJet Plus will put any character you want anywhere you want it. In different fonts of the same typeface, in multiple typefaces, with well-chosen faces, kerned, emphasized, and clearly. Your software has to supply the characters, and tell the printer exactly what to do -- as I said, there's a tradeoff involved -- but the printer will do it. You run into limitations when you're trying to use lots of different fonts (i.e. the Macintosh "ransom note" style, changing fonts with wild abandon and no concern for how ugly the result looks), and the less said about graphics the better, but for typesetting normal text it works fine. It's amazing how many people think that typesetting began with PostScript. Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
jae@lll-crg.llnl.gov (John Eadie) (07/31/89)
In article <302@brazos.Rice.edu> attcan!utzoo!henry@uunet.uu.net (Henry Spencer) writes: >X-Sun-Spots-Digest: Volume 8, Issue 79, message 2 of 15 > >>|[HP LaserJets] You do need suitable software; they trade off >>|hardware smarts for cost, and so the host has to supply the intelligence. >>|If you are doing serious graphics or are prone to the "ransom note" style >> ^^^^^ >>|of typography, however, you definitely want a PostScript printer... >> >>Yeah. PostScript is necessary here and there. If you're using different >>fonts of the same typeface, say. Or perhaps EVEN, yes, using more than >>one typeface, or, making the face fit the the job, kerning with care, >>trying to communicate with emphasis and clarity .. that is to say, where >>one is concerned about GOOD Typography. > >Nonsense. A LaserJet Plus will put any character you want anywhere you >want it. In different fonts of the same typeface, in multiple typefaces, >with well-chosen faces, kerned, emphasized, and clearly. Your software >has to supply the characters, and tell the printer exactly what to do -- >as I said, there's a tradeoff involved -- but the printer will do it. You >run into limitations when you're trying to use lots of different fonts >(i.e. the Macintosh "ransom note" style, changing fonts with wild abandon >and no concern for how ugly the result looks), and the less said about >graphics the better, but for typesetting normal text it works fine. > >It's amazing how many people think that typesetting began with PostScript. And what kind of software does this? Is it your assembly code? Does it resemble the proprietary coding that used to drive Xenotron, Monotype, Linotron, Compugraphic typesetters? (All of whom now offer PostScript.) How many applications on the Sun drive the LaserJet this well? What's the language? PostScript has goosed the old time typesetting industry into using modern computing practices. PostScript is portable, has tons of applications on many platforms using it as output, and does graphics. BTW, Graphics! A PostScript printer will therefore continue be useful in the future, since it prints / proofs the standard page description language. You can save money on laser printers, but I wouldn't buy one that can't interpret PostScript. Unless I have one really dear HP laserjet application. John John Eadie Computing Art Inc (416) 536-9951 E-Mail: jae@c-art.UUCP | {uunet,suncan}!c-art!jae | sun!jeadie `The aphorist, bending over the stream of language, found in it his own image: but the hump did not show, and his face, its traces of suffering softened by the ripples of water, was framed in trees and blue sky' .. Georg Cristoph Lictenberg
henry@cs.utexas.edu (Henry Spencer) (08/22/89)
>>... A LaserJet Plus will put any character you want anywhere you >>want it... Your software has to supply the characters, and tell the >>printer exactly what to do... but the printer will do it... > >And what kind of software does this? Is it your assembly code? Does it >resemble the proprietary coding that used to drive Xenotron, Monotype, >Linotron, Compugraphic typesetters? (All of whom now offer PostScript.) >How many applications on the Sun drive the LaserJet this well? What's the >language? The software is any of several freely-redistributable back ends for major text formatters like ditroff and TeX. Written in C, portable, completely non-proprietary, suitable to driving dozens of different laser printers that are LaserJet-compatible (rather more than are PostScript compatible, at present, I think). Text formatters are the major issue here, since -- as I mentioned -- one would *not* pick a LaserJet for graphics. I will freely concede that PostScript is the wave of the future for talking to output devices, and is to be preferred if other things are equal. At the moment, they aren't, as LaserJets are cheaper and usually faster. For people who have major need for graphics or portable output, this is not significant. Those people are a minority at present. I also note that we have quietly changed the subject, away from claiming that the LaserJet can't do the original job of printing text nicely. Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
jae@uunet.uu.net (John Eadie) (09/05/89)
In article <1050@brazos.Rice.edu> uunet.uu.net!attcan!utzoo!henry@cs.utexas.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >X-Sun-Spots-Digest: Volume 8, Issue 104, message 3 of 18 > >>>... A LaserJet Plus will put any character you want anywhere you >>>want it... Your software has to supply the characters, and tell the >>>printer exactly what to do... but the printer will do it... >> >>And what kind of software does this? Is it your assembly code? Does it >>resemble the proprietary coding that used to drive Xenotron, Monotype, >>Linotron, Compugraphic typesetters? (All of whom now offer PostScript.) >>How many applications on the Sun drive the LaserJet this well? What's the >>language? > >The software is any of several freely-redistributable back ends for major >text formatters like ditroff and TeX. Written in C, portable, completely >non-proprietary, suitable to driving dozens of different laser printers >that are LaserJet-compatible (rather more than are PostScript compatible, >at present, I think). Text formatters are the major issue here, since -- >as I mentioned -- one would *not* pick a LaserJet for graphics. > >I will freely concede that PostScript is the wave of the future for >talking to output devices, and is to be preferred if other things are >equal. At the moment, they aren't, as LaserJets are cheaper and usually >faster. For people who have major need for graphics or portable output, >this is not significant. Those people are a minority at present. > >I also note that we have quietly changed the subject, away from claiming >that the LaserJet can't do the original job of printing text nicely. We also never mentioned `Transcript' once, so I suppose we are to be congratulated. I guess you might be right about people that need graphics or portable output being in the minority (I have no statistics), but if true, I think that is rapidly changing. I think that people _now_ setting up a "small network of Suns" are probably thinking about WYSIWYG software like FrameMaker or it's competitors, (the Interleaf products and The Publisher are competitors, troff-derived products like SoftQuad's are not), all of which rely on PostScript printers (note this applies to The Publisher, although TeX derived.) This makes them, willy nilly, need graphics & PostScript portability. I will totally agree that PostScript printers are overpriced (until Adobe gets some competition for its controllers), and one ought to look at, or hope for, alternatives. I've heard in the interim about adding a PostScript module onto the LaserJet, and also from a company that has a software driver for it that accepts PostScript, so maybe it's not a bad choice anyhow. I think also, if you follow the `fonts wars', you'll know that far more fonts are available with PostScript (nowadays you can get some really keen `official' Compugraphic/Adobe fonts), than with any alternative (I know, I know, not many people care about type that much, yet) - and the really interesting thread developing is, _whose_ PostScript (Adobe's? Apple's? Sun's?), and whose _fonts_. Sun MAY be able to outdo Adobe with regards to the number and quality of fonts to choose from, if they're on their toes. Of course nobody except Apple (other than the smaller `Bitstream' cloners) has admitted to developing a printer controller. -john John Eadie Computing Art Inc (416) 536-9951 E-Mail: jae@c-art.UUCP | {uunet,suncan}!c-art!jae | sun!jeadie "dad .. said the ink was too light, and that we should've used heavier characters. But then I ignored him like I always do" - Don Libes