[comp.sys.sun] RISC MIPS -- Sun vs. VA

hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick) (09/26/89)

In the Unix marketplace, MIPS normally means performance that many times
that of a VAX 11/780, which is essentially the same as a MicroVAX 1. This
led to talk of gold-plating a 780 and giving it to the NBS as the Offical
MIP.  MIPS are normally evaluated by trying a set of benchmarks on both a
VAX and the machine involved.  (I suspect that these days they probably do
the VAX tests on a newer VAX and then divide by DEC's MVUP rating.  MVUP
is performance related to the MicroVAX 1.)

Thus MIPS is not an actual count of instructions per second.  Of course
this only gives you a ballpark idea about a machine, since the ratio will
be different for different tasks.  In general it seems like RISC machines
tend to perform somewhat better on simple tests than in reality.  MIPS
will also be different for different operating systems, so a VAX 8800
running VMS may be faster than a Sun that has the same number of "MIPS".

Sun's official rating for the Sun 4/280 was 10 MIPS.  That was based on
some early tests, but no real user experience.  I think many people now
believe that for real tasks a more typical number is 8 MIPS, with 6 MIPS
for Fortran (both integer and floating point).  Presumably Sun is keeping
its definition of MIPS constant, so you might want to multiply figures for
their newer systems by the same .8 fudge factor.

As far as I can tell "RISC MIPS" is used mostly by IBM for the RT.  It
seems to be an actual instructions per sec count.  Since RISC instructions
do less than the VAX instructions, "RISC MIPS" are worth less than the
MIPS you normally hear quoted.  The ratio is probably between 1.5 and 2.0.

Nobody is very enthusiastic about MIPS, since nobody really believes you
can characterize a machine by one number.  Furthermore, MIPS are usually
evaluated by vendors, and no two vendors use the same tests.  Digital
Review does a lot of testing of machines in the Unix marketplace and seems
to use a consistent methodology.  However their tests are almost entirely
in Fortran.  Because VMS has a particularly good Fortran compiler, this
tends to understate the MIPS of non-DEC machines.

datri@uunet.uu.net (09/27/89)

>In the Unix marketplace, MIPS normally means performance that many times
>that of a VAX 11/780, which is essentially the same as a MicroVAX 1. This

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of the MVII, which is usually rated at
about .9 of a 780.  As I remember, the MVI was significantly slower.

>Thus MIPS is not an actual count of instructions per second.

Million Instructions Per Second.  The problem is, as you noted, that many
people compare those figures across architectures.  It may also be
significant how they come up with that number -- do they just average out
all the instruction times and divide by n, or do they weight it according
to the instructions that people actually use?  On the MVII chipset, DEC
implemented some of the "lesser-used" instructions in software, which
could skew the meaning of an MVII "MIP" according to what you do on it.
An example is the CRC instruction, which it seems DEC did in software, but
of which the VMS BACKUP program makes heavy use.

I prefer the habit of saying "10 times a 780" or "10 VAX MIPS", since
that's a more useful number.

Another thing to be careful about is that there is a manufacturer named
MIPS who make RISCish processors (and machines), and that the DECstation
3100 uses them.

abstine@image.soe.clarkson.edu (Arthur Stine) (09/27/89)

In article <1688@brazos.Rice.edu>, by hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick):
> In the Unix marketplace, MIPS normally means performance that many times
> that of a VAX 11/780, which is essentially the same as a MicroVAX 1. This
> led to talk of gold-plating a 780 and giving it to the NBS as the Offical
> MIP.  MIPS are normally evaluated by trying a set of benchmarks on both a
> VAX and the machine involved.  (I suspect that these days they probably do
> the VAX tests on a newer VAX and then divide by DEC's MVUP rating.  MVUP
> is performance related to the MicroVAX 1.)

a 780 is NOT equivalent to a MVI, a MVII is about 90% of a 11/780. There
are both VUP and MVUP ratings being used, just to confuse things

Art Stine
Sr Network Engineer
Clarkson U
ABStine@CLVMS.Clarkson.Edu

rwood@vajra.dec.com (Richard Wood) (09/29/89)

One significant point of contention about the meaning of "MIPS" is the
fact that no commonly used test or benchmark measures only the hardware of
the system.  Each will measure a different blend of raw hardware speed
(which combines many related subsystems) as well as OS performance and
compiler efficiency.

Most of the earlier MIPS ratings cited by vendors in the UNIX market
benchmarked their machines against a VAX 11/780 running 4.1BSD or 4.2BSD.
Since those are both quite a few years old, they aren't really valid
measurements now.  Thus the performance of an 11/780 changes over time -
today's software will deliver more power than yesterday's.

Since any VAX running a contemporary copy of VMS and it's compilers will
out-perform the equivalent hardware running 4.2, there is a distinct bias.
Digital realized this bias was being used as a marketing weapon, and
started using the term "VUPS", for VAX Units of Processing, defined as the
performance of a VAX 11/780 running the most recent VMS software.  The
most recent Ultrix software will perform roughly the same (a little better
in C-based programs, a little worse in Fortran-based - due mostly to the
design intentions of the OS, as opposed to compiler quality).

Digital Review uses MVUPS as the basis for their quite well thought out
suite of tests.

Of course, now most vendors that compete directly with Digital use the
term "VAX MIPS" (or even VUPS) when claiming performance numbers.  Whether
these figures are adjusted for the differences in OS/Compilers can only be
known by that companies marketing people.

The only sure way of testing the performance of any machine is to run the
application mix you intend to use on the machines you are considering.
Failing that, pay more attention to independent tests such as those in
industry magazines.  Vendor claims should be thought of as the propaganda
they usually are.