smith@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk (Mark Smith) (12/01/89)
I can't stand it. Back in the summer, we saw the X11/NeWS Beta release running at Sun here in the UK. It looked to be ready Real-Soon-Now. At the time, we understood that FCS was expected sometime in September. Here it is, the end of November, and we keep hearing how it's delayed here, it's on hold in the U.S., etc. etc. Meanwhile, messages show up on the net which suggest some people actually have it in their hands. Does anyone know what's really happening? I'll take semi-substantiated rumours at this point. +-----------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Mark Smith | tel: +44 483 574 325 | | Canon Research Centre Europe Ltd. | fax: +44 483 574 360 | | 19 Frederick Sanger Road +------------------------------+ | Surrey Research Park | inet: smith@canon.co.uk | | Guildford Surrey UK GU2 5YD | uucp: ukc!uos-ee!canon!smith | +-----------------------------------+------------------------------+
smith@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk (Mark Smith) (12/12/89)
Yes, well...my previous posting about waiting for X11/NeWS seems to have struck a nerve. The following may be of interest to others waiting: The X11/NeWS FCS is properly called OpenWindows 1.0. This includes the merged server, XView toolkit (SunView API, Open Look UI), OL desktop applications (mail tool, etc.), documentation, etc. OpenWindows is currently in the netherworld between a beta release and an end-user-ready distribution. To quote from the 1.0 READ THIS FIRST: Even though OpenWindows is very stable, this release is positioned as a developer's release to send the message that OpenWindows is not yet suitable as a SunView replacement for all current Sun customers. Some users, particularly those with large memory machines (more than 8Mb), may be happy with OpenWindows 1.0 performance. Other users, such as those with eight megabytes of memory, may not be happy with OpenWindows 1.0 if they expect the same level of responsiveness as they are now used to with SunView. OpenWindows 1.0 is not recommended at all for configurations with less than 8Mb. Existing performance problems in limited memory machines are well understood and will be addressed in an upcoming release. The document includes an extensive bug list. In fact, our copy magically showed up this week. We are running it on 16 Mb 4/110s and SS/1s (8 bit colour). Performance is good on the SS/1s, OK on the 4/110s. There are obvious minor bugs, and it has frozen occasionally. That said, some things, particularly on the NeWS side (flag waving, cheers), are impressively fast. And yes, it is currently a memory pig. The bottom line seems to be that Sun would like to have waited for a more stable release, but public demand is forcing the product out the door. I have some sympathy for Sun in this; they have a potentially great product, but with the rough edges still showing. However, I wish it didn't appear that identifying oneself as a "suitable customer" for v1.0 consisted mainly of badgering Sun incessantly. Thanks to all who replied (including Sun reps).
fozzy@maize.engin.umich.edu (Eric Wines) (12/12/89)
In article <3406@brazos.Rice.edu> canon!smith@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk (Mark Smith) writes: >X-Sun-Spots-Digest: Volume 8, Issue 209, message 2 of 14 > >I can't stand it. Back in the summer, we saw the X11/NeWS Beta release You're not the only one who can't stand it! >running at Sun here in the UK. It looked to be ready Real-Soon-Now. At the >time, we understood that FCS was expected sometime in September. Here it >is, the end of November, and we keep hearing how it's delayed here, it's >on hold in the U.S., etc. etc. Meanwhile, messages show up on the net >which suggest some people actually have it in their hands. Does anyone >know what's really happening? I'll take semi-substantiated rumours at this >point. The package is slow. It's also quite buggy, and quite disapointing. I am only commenting the X11 side, as that's what we mainly use. Big, blatant bugs, bugs that make the machine unuseable. Did they test this? fozzy@caen.engin.umich.edu
moraes@csri.toronto.edu (Mark Moraes) (12/13/89)
It seems that while the X11/NeWS distribution is called FCS, Sun is not distributing it widely. According to Sun Canada, when they gave us a talk on OpenWindows, you need to fill out an application indicating why you want the X11/NeWS (OpenWindows) product and you get to pay $350 only if they feel you deserve it/can handle it. (One site on campus did ask for, and get a copy of the OpenWindows tape, so we know it does exist) So, ask your Sun sales rep. Apparently this reduced distribution is because the product is still evolving and being tuned. The talk was interesting -- compared to previous such talks, they were quite frank. Quite a change to have them trying to answer your questions about server size, performance, and robustness, instead of handing out canned slides and hype.
ehrlich@cs.psu.edu (Daniel Ehrlich) (12/14/89)
In article <3406@brazos.Rice.edu> canon!smith@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk (Mark Smith) writes:
Mark> X-Sun-Spots-Digest: Volume 8, Issue 209, message 2 of 14
Mark> I can't stand it. Back in the summer, we saw the X11/NeWS Beta release
Mark> running at Sun here in the UK. It looked to be ready Real-Soon-Now. At the
Mark> time, we understood that FCS was expected sometime in September. Here it
Mark> is, the end of November, and we keep hearing how it's delayed here, it's
Mark> on hold in the U.S., etc. etc. Meanwhile, messages show up on the net
Mark> which suggest some people actually have it in their hands. Does anyone
Mark> know what's really happening? I'll take semi-substantiated rumours at this
Mark> point.
The only rumor that I can supply (my source is a Sun employee) is that Sun
had selected 200 sites that were to recieve the software at FCS. Penn
State was not on this list. We sent in our order the day after Sun
announced availability in the US. Nothing has shown up yet. Guess it is
time to bug my Sun sales rep. :-(
Dan Ehrlich <ehrlich@cs.psu.edu>