mojo@kepler.UUCP (Morris Jones) (11/06/85)
Well.
I installed the new moderators list today. To make sure I was able
to use it (I've never tested the feature since installing news a few
months ago) I posted the following to mod.computers.appletalk:
=================
Subject: testing forwarding of new moderators list
To: micropro!well!info-applebus@c.cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: mod.protocols.appletalk
Dear moderator,
Please do not post this to your newsgroup. I would appreciate a return
mail that you received this note.
Thank you,
---
Mojo
... Morris Jones, MicroPro Product Development
{ucbvax,decwrl}!dual! \
{ptsfa,hplabs,glacier,lll-crg}!well! -- micropro!kepler!mojo
=================
I think you'll agree that this will cause some confusion. Here's what
happened:
=================
From uucp Tue Nov 5 17:10:26 1985
>From root Tue Nov 5 17:04:17 1985 remote from micropro
>From lll-crg!MIT-MC.ARPA!DEVON Tue Nov 5 16:50:23 1985 remote from well
Received: by well.UUCP (4.12/4.7)
id AA04614; Tue, 5 Nov 85 16:50:23 pst
Received: from MIT-MC.ARPA by lll-crg.ARPA id AA02209; Tue, 5 Nov 85 16:38:09 pst
id AA02209; Tue, 5 Nov 85 16:38:09 pst
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 85 19:37:02 EST
From: "Devon S. McCullough" <well!lll-crg!MIT-MC.ARPA!DEVON>
Subject: testing forwarding of new moderators list
To: well!micropro!kepler!mojo@LLL-CRG.ARPA
In-Reply-To: Msg of Tue 5 Nov 85 14:06:46 pst from well!micropro!kepler!mojo at lll-crg.ARPA
Message-Id: <[MIT-MC.ARPA].706739.851105.DEVON>
Gee, I didn't know I was a moderator! I guess info-applebus gets here direct.
=================
From uucp Tue Nov 5 17:10:19 1985
>From root Tue Nov 5 17:02:42 1985 remote from micropro
>From lll-crg!SRI-CSL.ARPA!GEOFF Tue Nov 5 16:50:11 1985 remote from well
Received: by well.UUCP (4.12/4.7)
id AA04598; Tue, 5 Nov 85 16:50:11 pst
Received: from SRI-CSL.ARPA by lll-crg.ARPA id AA01978; Tue, 5 Nov 85 16:27:16 pst
id AA01978; Tue, 5 Nov 85 16:27:16 pst
Date: 5 Nov 1985 16:26-PST
Sender: well!lll-crg!SRI-CSL.ARPA!GEOFF
Subject: Re: testing forwarding of new moderators list
From: the tty of Geoffrey S. Goodfellow <well!lll-crg!SRI-CSL.ARPA!Geoff>
To: well!micropro!kepler!mojo@LLL-CRG.ARPA
Message-Id: <[SRI-CSL.ARPA] 5-Nov-85 16:26:28.GEOFF>
In-Reply-To: <8511052206.AA03238@well.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 85 14:06:46 pst
From: well!micropro!kepler!mojo@lll-crg.ARPA
Subject: testing forwarding of new moderators list
To: micropro!well!info-applebus@c.cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: mod.protocols.appletalk
Dear moderator,
Please do not post this to your newsgroup. I would appreciate a return
mail that you received this note.
Thank you,
---
Mojo
... Morris Jones, MicroPro Product Development
{ucbvax,decwrl}!dual! \
{ptsfa,hplabs,glacier,lll-crg}!well! -- micropro!kepler!mojo
i got it, as you can see.
g
=================
From uucp Tue Nov 5 17:10:12 1985
>From root Tue Nov 5 17:01:18 1985 remote from micropro
>From lll-crg!C.CS.CMU.EDU!Mailer Tue Nov 5 16:01:23 1985 remote from well
Received: by well.UUCP (4.12/4.7)
id AA04195; Tue, 5 Nov 85 16:01:23 pst
Received: from C.CS.CMU.EDU by lll-crg.ARPA id AA01137; Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:59:58 pst
id AA01137; Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:59:58 pst
Message-Id: <8511052359.AA01137@lll-crg.ARPA>
Date: Tue 5 Nov 85 18:55:16-EST
From: The Mailer Daemon <well!lll-crg!C.CS.CMU.EDU!Mailer>
To: well!micropro!kepler!mojo@LLL-CRG.ARPA
Subject: Message of 5-Nov-85 18:01:59
Message failed for the following:
incoming-info-applebus@COLUMBIA.EDU: 550 cower... User unknown
------------
Received: from lll-crg.ARPA by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 5 Nov 85 18:02:03-EST
Received: by lll-crg.ARPA id AA29493; Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:02:33 pst
id AA29493; Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:02:33 pst
From: well!micropro!kepler!mojo@lll-crg.ARPA
Received: by well.UUCP (4.12/4.7)
id AA03238; Tue, 5 Nov 85 14:06:46 pst
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 85 14:06:46 pst
Message-Id: <8511052206.AA03238@well.UUCP>
Subject: testing forwarding of new moderators list
Newsgroups: mod.protocols.appletalk
To: micropro!well!info-applebus@c.cs.cmu.edu
Dear moderator,
Please do not post this to your newsgroup. I would appreciate a return
mail that you received this note.
Thank you,
---
Mojo
... Morris Jones, MicroPro Product Development
{ucbvax,decwrl}!dual! \
{ptsfa,hplabs,glacier,lll-crg}!well! -- micropro!kepler!mojo
-------
=================
From uucp Tue Nov 5 17:10:05 1985
>From root Tue Nov 5 17:00:13 1985 remote from micropro
>From lll-crg!nosc.ARPA!westjw@frog Tue Nov 5 16:01:01 1985 remote from well
Received: by well.UUCP (4.12/4.7)
id AA04179; Tue, 5 Nov 85 16:01:01 pst
Received: from nosc.ARPA (nosc-gw) by lll-crg.ARPA id AA01126; Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:59:17 pst
id AA01126; Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:59:17 pst
Received: from frog.ARPA by nosc.ARPA (4.17/4.7)
id AA03614; Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:59:24 pst
Received: by frog.ARPA (4.17/4.7)
id AA05408; Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:58:38 pst
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:58:38 pst
From: Joel West <well!lll-crg!nosc.ARPA!westjw@frog>
Message-Id: <8511052358.AA05408@frog.ARPA>
To: well!micropro!kepler!mojo@lll-crg.ARPA
Subject: Re: testing forwarding of new moderators list
Yeah I got this. I'm on the info-applebus mailing list
at
info-applebus@c.cs.cmu.edu
Joel West CACI, Inc. - Federal
westjw@nosc.ARPA
{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!sdcsvax!noscvax!westjw
=================
From uucp Tue Nov 5 17:09:57 1985
>From root Tue Nov 5 16:59:25 1985 remote from micropro
>From lll-crg!C.CS.CMU.EDU!Mailer Tue Nov 5 15:27:10 1985 remote from well
Received: by well.UUCP (4.12/4.7)
id AA04028; Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:27:10 pst
Received: from C.CS.CMU.EDU by lll-crg.ARPA id AA00270; Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:21:33 pst
id AA00270; Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:21:33 pst
Message-Id: <8511052321.AA00270@lll-crg.ARPA>
Date: Tue 5 Nov 85 18:17:27-EST
From: The Mailer Daemon <well!lll-crg!C.CS.CMU.EDU!Mailer>
To: well!micropro!kepler!mojo@LLL-CRG.ARPA
Subject: Message of 5-Nov-85 18:01:59
Message failed for the following:
inmail@williams.bitnet: 550 Host name "williams" unknown, recipient rejected*
------------
Received: from lll-crg.ARPA by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 5 Nov 85 18:02:03-EST
Received: by lll-crg.ARPA id AA29493; Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:02:33 pst
id AA29493; Tue, 5 Nov 85 15:02:33 pst
From: well!micropro!kepler!mojo@lll-crg.ARPA
Received: by well.UUCP (4.12/4.7)
id AA03238; Tue, 5 Nov 85 14:06:46 pst
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 85 14:06:46 pst
Message-Id: <8511052206.AA03238@well.UUCP>
Subject: testing forwarding of new moderators list
Newsgroups: mod.protocols.appletalk
To: micropro!well!info-applebus@c.cs.cmu.edu
Dear moderator,
Please do not post this to your newsgroup. I would appreciate a return
mail that you received this note.
Thank you,
---
Mojo
... Morris Jones, MicroPro Product Development
{ucbvax,decwrl}!dual! \
{ptsfa,hplabs,glacier,lll-crg}!well! -- micropro!kepler!mojo
-------
=================
Thanks for your patience.
--
Mojo
... Morris Jones, MicroPro Product Development
{ucbvax,decwrl}!dual! \
{ptsfa,hplabs,glacier,lll-crg}!well! -- micropro!kepler!mojoreid@Glacier.ARPA (Brian Reid) (11/06/85)
This is a perfect example of why it was a dumb idea to convert the fa groups into mod groups. info-applebus is not a moderated group, it is an ARPAnet mailing list with a "mail reflector". Whenever you try to make one thing masquerade as something it's not, whether it has to do with computers or with cutlery, people are going to be fooled. A group with the name "mod.xxx" should have a moderator, and many (most) of these ARPAnet groups do not have moderators. -- Brian Reid decwrl!glacier!reid Stanford reid@SU-Glacier.ARPA
ron@brl-sem.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (11/06/85)
> Well. > > I installed the new moderators list today. To make sure I was able > to use it (I've never tested the feature since installing news a few > months ago) I posted the following to mod.computers.appletalk: > What did you expect? The whole purpose of the mod kludge was to direct mail towards the ARPA gateway. No one said that there was a human associated with these lists. Perhaps the MOD groups that are really ex-fa.* groups should be marked as such on the list (if they aren't already). -Ron
ron@brl-sem.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (11/08/85)
> This is a perfect example of why it was a dumb idea to convert the fa groups > into mod groups. info-applebus is not a moderated group, it is an ARPAnet > mailing list with a "mail reflector". > > Whenever you try to make one thing masquerade as something it's not, whether > it has to do with computers or with cutlery, people are going to be fooled. > A group with the name "mod.xxx" should have a moderator, and many (most) of > these ARPAnet groups do not have moderators. Unfortunately, only very small communities of the USENET communities knew how to back mail to submit to fa.* groups. Mod.* things were a known quantity. However, this was all discussed before, and people knew before hand that this was likely to happen. -Ron
spaf@gatech.CSNET (Gene Spafford) (11/10/85)
If anybody would bother to read the "moderators" and "active lists"
articles I post to mod.newslists and net.announce.newusers they would
see that I describe: 1) what happens when you try to post to a "mod"
group; and, 2) that some mod groups are simply mail reflectors with no
moderator.
The same was stated in one of the articles posted about the changeover.
If any of you have a better way of phrasing the document, send it to
me and I will consider incorporating it into the "modertors" list
and/or the "active" list. If your problem is simply one of not
bother to read the docuementation, then don't complain if things
don't work the way you think they do.
--
Gene "wedding done, thesis to go" Spafford
The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332
CSNet: Spaf @ GATech ARPA: Spaf%GATech.CSNet @ Relay.CS.NET
uucp: ...!{akgua,decvax,hplabs,ihnp4,linus,seismo,ulysses}!gatech!spafmojo@kepler.UUCP (Morris Jones) (11/12/85)
In article <1929@gatech.CSNET> spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford) writes: >If anybody would bother to read the "moderators" and "active lists" >articles I post to mod.newslists and net.announce.newusers they would >see that I describe: 1) what happens when you try to post to a "mod" >group; and, 2) that some mod groups are simply mail reflectors with no >moderator. Gene, I knew what to expect when I posted my test to mod.protocols.appletalk. The point of my posting here is that THESE GROUPS ARE NOT MODERATED. It amazes me that Erik was such a stickler for accurate naming of the groups while continuing to call them mod groups. They aren't moderated. Now I like the arrangement of these groups. But I think there should be a moderator controlling the gateway between the mailing list and USENET. Suggestion: Get moderators for the new groups, located at a gateway site. -- Mojo ... Morris Jones, MicroPro Product Development {ptsfa,hplabs,glacier,lll-crg}!well!micropro!kepler!mojo {ucbvax,decwrl}!dual!micropro!kepler!mojo
ralphw@ius2.cs.cmu.edu (Ralph Hyre) (11/18/85)
In article <356@kepler.UUCP> mojo@kepler.UUCP (Morris Jones) writes: > >Gene, I knew what to expect when I posted my test to mod.protocols.appletalk. > >The point of my posting here is that THESE GROUPS ARE NOT MODERATED. ... This has since been fixed in the case of mod.protocols.appletalk. I kept seeing edicts to the effect that DARPA actually required these list to be moderated, but I didn't really worry too much until recently, when I discovered that the USENET's idea of the 'moderator' of the list was info-applebus@cmu-cs-c rather than info-applebus-request@cmu-cs-c. (In my view this is incorrect, but I have since made 'info-applebus' indirect through me rather than the distribution list, so go right on posting to mod.protocols.appletalk. Other lists will have to live with 'inappropriate postings' or install moderation as well. - Ralph
ron@brl-sem.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (11/19/85)
> I kept seeing edicts to the effect that DARPA actually required these list > to be moderated, but I didn't really worry too much until recently, when I > discovered that the USENET's idea of the 'moderator' of the list was > info-applebus@cmu-cs-c rather than info-applebus-request@cmu-cs-c. There is nothing that says an ARPANET mailing list needs to moderated. Most of them aren't. The problem was that everybody's USENET news code was broken with respect to fa.* groups so a kludge was done with the mod.* groups. There are still quite a few groups that are automatically forwarded into ARPANET. Net.micro <-> INFO-MICRO, net.unix-wizards <-> UNIX-WIZARDS, and net.unix <-> INFO-UNIX, etc... > > (In my view this is incorrect, but I have since made 'info-applebus' indirect > through me rather than the distribution list, so go right on posting to > mod.protocols.appletalk. Other lists will have to live with 'inappropriate > postings' or install moderation as well. > Or they will just turn off the USENET gateway. Please exercise some restraint. -Ron