SHAWN%mit-ml@sri-unix.UUCP (06/18/83)
From: Shawn F. McKay <SHAWN@mit-ml> I think the idea of another list is a good one, but, how do you say "You can't be on it....", I for that reason, think that it is not the best or maybe even the "right" thing in this case. (for example, how can you say that foobar is not a "random loser", and that "barfoo" is?????? Who are you to decide?? (or me for that matter?)). I think some of the problem here might be the "High-School Hackers", my personal view is this is the new form of vandalism. I mean, why should these kids waste there time hacking some buildings wall, when they can just as fast destroy someone's $100,000,00 Computer System?? if they are below 18, they have a fairly low risk (even if they are caught). (not that I know law, I might be wrong about the age). I think computers in schools are a good thing, however, I think they are a double edge knife, and they (as has been shown), can be very painful. I think that a good thing to do might be to go down to the level of the "random", down to there "rbbs" system's, where they give out the info that so badly pains most of us, and give them some "Incorrect." (pardon the pun) information, maybe even in some cases locate some of them in person, and talk with them, make an effort to helping these kids understand what it is that they are doing. (personally: I don't think half of them know what the string "rm *" means to a unix, just that its a neat thing to do, and not how it can hurt people). By making the effort to explain these things, and to disabling kids who continue at it, we might not have to worry as much. (by disable, I am thinking in terms of taking them, and there family to court for a while, removing there terminal, and modem, or some other means that will make the risk of hacking other systems, too high for them). I also think that showing them some of the brighter sides of computer science might also help. Showing them how to write a "game" (all by them selfs), rather then the games they have been playing, (usually at someone else's cost). I myself think this is some of the things that Might help. Granted, better security will help, but this reminds me of the arms race, "we get better", and "they get better", "we get better yet", and "they get better yet". How far can it go??? Yours In Hacking, -Shawn Uucp: mitccc!shawn Arpa: Shawn at Mit-Ml
edhall%rand-unix@sri-unix.UUCP (06/21/83)
In my experience most sys-crackers are 18 or under, and are out to `prove' themselves or to engage in a cat-and-mouse game with an `authority'. Many are very intelligent and talented; I can only shake my head over the incredible waste of their mis-directed efforts. However, a lot more of the sys-crackers I've known about have gone on to have useful educations and careers than the heavy drug-users. And I think mistakes by CE's caused us as much system downtime. But the risk is not so much to the university as to the exponentially- growing community of commercially-owned computer systems (many of them UNIX-based). Perhaps university computer centers should take some care lest their systems become breeding grounds for more serious sorts of computer crime. Most student sys-crackers outgrow their ways, but I don't think we should ignore that some don't. -Ed