gast@cs.ucla.edu (David Gast) (11/29/90)
I imagine that this question has been brought up many times (by every user?), but I don't read this newsgroup. The problem is that SunOs 4.* (I think we are using 4.0.3) seems much slower than SunOs 3.5. It is not unusual to wait 10 seconds for something to echo. Writing files now takes order of magnitude longer than before. Perhaps there are other factors involved. What I am wondering is if this slowness is a well-known problem or if other factors may be at work. Please send e-mail and I will summarize. Thanks, David Gast gast@cs.ucla.edu {uunet,ucbvax,rutgers}!{ucla-cs,cs.ucla.edu}!gast
gast@cs.ucla.edu (David Gast) (12/09/90)
In article <494@brchh104.bnr.ca> gast@cs.ucla.edu (David Gast) writes: >The problem is that SunOs 4.* (I >think we are using 4.0.3) seems much slower than SunOs 3.5. Thanks to all who replied. Executive Summary: SunOS 4.0.* is slower than SunOS 3.5.* or 4.1.*. (* is the shell meta-character). It also takes at least 4 Meg more memory than 3.5. If you haven't updated from 3.5, don't. If you have, then update to 4.1. Many of the respondants suggested that we need at least 8 meg of memory on a machine; our machines either have 16 or 32 meg of memory. (Some workstations do not, but they don't seem to be having serious problems). Incidentally, after I posted the message, it was determined that the major cause of our problems seems to be NFS. Specifically rcp (which uses tcp/ip) can sometimes copy a file significantly faster than cp (which uses NFS). In fact, copying a large file with NFS can slow down an entire network. Note: sometimes nfs is faster, perhaps when the system is not heavily loaded. Here are the replies I received, edited. X-From curt@ecn.purdue.edu Wed Nov 28 11:44:57 1990 Yep, bigger is slower. 4.1.1 is supposed to address this problem, and is supposedly faster than 4.0 or 4.0.3. I will believe it when I am running it. In the meantime, build yourself a non GENERIC kernel, and install as much memory as you can afford in the server, and clients. This will help immensely. X-From karl@forest.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Nov 28 14:03:14 1990 How much RAM do you have? OS4.x is slower on machines with <8MB because it is quite a bit *larger* than 3.5, and it has to swap a lot if there's not enough physical memory. X-From eirik@theory.TN.CORNELL.EDU Wed Nov 28 17:13:58 1990 SunOS 4.1 is supposed to be noticably faster than 4.0.3; my understanding is that it was the first release after 4.0 which was specifically tuned for performance. X-From montjoy@nest.ece.uc.edu Thu Nov 29 06:08:48 1990 4.xx is much slower. However, it has more features than 3.5. Also, these performance issues are being addressed in 4.1 and 4.1.1. 4.1xxx has better interactive performance, and faster SCSI disk support. X-From jdd@ois.db.toronto.edu Thu Nov 29 11:12:16 1990 If mem < 8MB, 3.5 is faster than 4.1, which in turn is faster than 4.0. If mem >= 8MB, 4.1 is faster than 4.0 which is faster than 3.5. X-From tacitus!clh@wimsey.bc.ca Thu Nov 29 13:39:54 1990 A lot of 4.0.X is slower than 3.5; a few things (like NFS) are supposed to be improved. One of the most important things about 4.0.X is that it REALLY NEEDS more memory than 3.5; for instance, our 3/60s were unbearable with 4Mb, but are quite satisfactory at 8 (this running SunView). 4.1 appears to be somewhat of an improvement over 4.0.3; Sun claims 17% average (average? average what??) improvement. You still need the memory, though. There are all sorts of tuning things in the Installing the SunOS manual, but many of these appear unnecessary if you have 8Mb. All this is further messed up by OpenWindows, which seems to require at least 12Mb to function pleasantly (ie not paging when pulling a window to the foreground). One last thing; we run one 3/50 (which is really bad under 4.1), two 8Mb 3/60s (which are OK), and one 12Mb 3/60 (which is also OK); the rest of our machines are SS1s. The SS1s, presumably because of the bigger SPARC binaries, seem to often "fall over" the minimum memory line, ie, if you have an application that barely runs comfortably on an 8mb 3/60, you'll need 12mb on your 4/60. Oh yes, the other thing I remember seeing was a (Sun) comparision that showed Sun 4s performed better on average with 4.0.X than 3.4, and Sun 3s slightly worse. X-From henry@zoo.toronto.edu Thu Nov 29 14:51:25 1990 It *is* much slower. Which is part of the reason why some of us are still running 3.5. X-From dgsi!cimage.com!brian@umich.edu Fri Nov 30 21:26:41 1990 I agree with you. We run 4.0.3(c), 4.1 and 4.1.1 where I work. At home, I run 3.5 on a 3/60. Of the 4.X products, it would seem that 4.1.1 is quite a bit better than the others. I have not run 4.1.1 on a Sun 3, however. SunOS 4.X is a PIG! I like 3.5. While it is by no means petite, it is small and quick compared to Sun's 4.X offerings. I am somewhat tempted to give 4.1.1 a try, but I don't like the idea of having to reinstall 3.5 later (my SCSI disk is a kludge. I think it will work fine under 4.X, but it was a real bitch under 3.5). It sounds like some of the delays and slowness that you may be experiencing may be due to other problems. 4.X does require more memory. If your config doesn't allow for this (if you're ok with os 3.5 and 4 meg, then you're probably screwed with 4.X and 4 meg). For 4.X to be reasonable, you must have enough memory. A bummer, but what can I say? Seeing how 4.X has grown (and the problems with 4.0), I do NOT look forward to the merge with SYS V R4... Ugh... X-From samsung!romed!asuvax.eas.asu.edu!mcdphx!zztop!xroads!lindley@uunet.UU.NET Sun Dec 2 21:59:21 1990 [Swi]tch to 4.1. My users all claim that it is, if anything, a bit faster than 3.5 was, and they are a really picky bunch. 4.0.3 is known to be LOTS slower than 4.1 or 3.5! X-From smcnet!ism!ico!gvlv2.gvl.unisys.com!ico!faatcrl!warb Mon Dec 3 22:39:50 1990 SunOs 3.5 was a bit faster, but you need at least 8mb of ram to run the 4.* systems on. Sounds like you have a 4mb system,which the 3.5 systems ran ok on. X-From hyder@erg.sri.com Tue Dec 4 08:00:30 1990 You most likely are in need of more memory. The single biggest difference between SunOS 3.5 and 4.N was the change to vm that implements shared libraries. The shared libraries are locked into memory leaving less for running processes and that often leads to thrashing. Whatever you used to consider a good amount of memory under 3.5 add 4Meg. It is not worth trying to run SunOS 4.n in less than 8Meg! David Gast gast@cs.ucla.edu {uunet,ucbvax,rutgers}!{ucla-cs,cs.ucla.edu}!gast