rhoward@msd.gatech.edu (Robert L. Howard) (04/27/91)
I want to add some storage to some of our hosts, all SS1's and SS1+'s. Currently, they all have no (0) internal disks. Sparc Station 2's come with an internal 207 MB disk, you can add another to make two. Sparc Station 1+'s come with an internal 104 MB disk, you can add another to make two. Can you put a 207 MB disk in a SS1+ (or an old SS1)? I understand that part of the consideration is the power supply...if I only have one 207 MB disk, will that consume more or less power than two 104's? Is it possible to actually put two 207's in a SS1+? [[Ed's Note: Two disks internally is the max, and I think 207Mbyte is the largest Sun sells for internal expansion - of course, you can always add external SCSI drives (669 Mbyte from Sun) to get lots of space. -bdg]] Thanks, Robert | Robert L. Howard | Georgia Tech Research Institute | | rhoward@msd.gatech.edu | MATD Laboratory | | (404) 528-7165 | Atlanta, Georgia 30332 |
brendan@cs.widener.edu (Brendan Kehoe) (05/01/91)
In <2632@brchh104.bnr.ca>, rhoward@msd.gatech.edu writes: >[[Ed's Note: Two disks internally is the max, and I think 207Mbyte is the >largest Sun sells for internal expansion - of course, you can always add >external SCSI drives (669 Mbyte from Sun) to get lots of space. -bdg]] One thing I've never grasped .. how Sun can charge $5000 for those, when you can get multiple *gigabytes* for that much money from third-party vendors. Brendan Kehoe - Widener Sun Network Manager - brendan@cs.widener.edu Widener University in Chester, PA A Bloody Sun-Dec War Zone
caxwgk@pkinbg.uucp (Wolfgang Kuehnel) (05/01/91)
From article <2632@brchh104.bnr.ca>, by rhoward@msd.gatech.edu (Robert L. Howard): I understand that part of the consideration is the power supply...if I only have one 207 MB disk, will that consume more or less power than two 104's? Is it possible to actually put two 207's in a SS1+? Any 207MB disk in any configuration is not supported in a SS1(+). SUN says that the power supply , fan and housing outlets for the air flow are different. the SS1 designs wont match the requirements of the larger disks. I think you can put one 207MB as a single disk in a SS1(+) without risk. But I didn't try it before. Wolfgang Kuehnel
frist@ccu.umanitoba.ca (05/10/91)
In article <2731@brchh104.bnr.ca> brendan@cs.widener.edu (Brendan Kehoe) writes: >In <2632@brchh104.bnr.ca>, rhoward@msd.gatech.edu writes: >>[[Ed's Note: Two disks internally is the max, and I think 207Mbyte is the >>largest Sun sells for internal expansion - of course, you can always add >>external SCSI drives (669 Mbyte from Sun) to get lots of space. -bdg]] > >One thing I've never grasped .. how Sun can charge $5000 for those, when >you can get multiple *gigabytes* for that much money from third-party >vendors. You forgot to mention that when you buy the same disk drive from a third party vendor that Sun installs with their system, you get a warranty. When you buy it from Sun, you get (for all practical purposes) NO warranty, but rather, the _opportunity_ to purchase a service contract. Typically, these service contracts are not even close to being cost effective. For a single-user, standalone workstation, they are so expensive as to be out of the question, unless you have wads of money stuffed in your desk and filecabinet. I should add, in all fairness, that service contracts for most equipment items are seldom cost effective. I might also mention the cost of repairs, and the turnaround time. Again, SUN will be far more expensive, with a much longer turnaround time, than a third party service. Brian Fristensky frist@ccu.umanitoba.ca Office phone: 204-474-6085 FAX: 204-275-5128
ekrell@ulysses.att.com (05/10/91)
We have about 20 Maxtor LXT-200's drives on SPARCstations 1's and 1+'s
(only one drive per system). We had a few DOA units and others failed
within days, but other than that they've been working fine for over a
year.
Eduardo Krell AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ
UUCP: {att,decvax,ucbvax}!ulysses!ekrell Internet: ekrell@ulysses.att.commark@east.sunworld.com (Mark Cappel) (05/10/91)
In article <2731@brchh104.bnr.ca> you write: >In <2632@brchh104.bnr.ca>, rhoward@msd.gatech.edu writes: >>[[Ed's Note: Two disks internally is the max, and I think 207Mbyte is the >>largest Sun sells for internal expansion - of course, you can always add >>external SCSI drives (669 Mbyte from Sun) to get lots of space. -bdg]] > >One thing I've never grasped .. how Sun can charge $5000 for those, when >you can get multiple *gigabytes* for that much money from third-party >vendors. Please forgive if I missed this point in an earlier portion of the discussion, but Sun does not support the use of > 104 Mb disks in SS1 and SS1+'s. Apparently, the larger disks generate more heat than the early pizza boxes can handle. Before you do add such a big disk to the internals of a SS1*, you may want to look at the guts of a SS2 to see how Sun improved the cooling capacity of the pizza box design. Mark Cappel 80 Elm St. Senior Editor Peterborough, NH 03458 SunWorld (nee SunTech Journal) voice (603) 924-0100 mark@east.sunworld.com fax (603) 924-8779
dav@gtc.com (David L. Markowitz) (05/24/91)
rhoward@msd.gatech.edu (Robert L. Howard) writes: >Can you put a 207 MB disk in a SS1+ (or an old SS1)? >I understand that part of the consideration is the power supply...if I >only have one 207 MB disk, will that consume more or less power than two >104's? Is it possible to actually put two 207's in a SS1+? There are two problems: power and cooling. The SS2 has an added fan and air vents under the drives to handle the 207's. You can definitely put one 207 in an SS1, or two 104's, but not two 207's (unless you add fans, a messy operation). David L. Markowitz Solaris Systems Division - Genisco Technology Corporation dav@gtc.com
gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) (06/05/91)
In article <2841@brchh104.bnr.ca> mark@east.sunworld.com (Mark Cappel) writes: > >Please forgive if I missed this point in an earlier portion of the >discussion, but Sun does not support the use of > 104 Mb disks in SS1 >and SS1+'s. Apparently, the larger disks generate more heat than the >early pizza boxes can handle. Those of you interested in larger internal disks could try calling Ross Bernstein at R-Squared (800-777-3478) or Carol Turchin at Box Hill (800-727-3863) about their 200+ MB offerings. For example, Box Hill uses a cooler-running drive unit from Rodime of Scotland, and also have a small proprietary auxiliary fan design for the old pizza boxes if you really need it (maybe if you're running two big internal drives?). R-Square used a Hitachi drive, also claimed to be cooler than the Maxtor that Sun's design uses. You may want to check with them; my notes aren't all that complete. gld -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary L. Dare Trumps Split! (p.1) - NY Post, > gld@cunixD.cc.columbia.EDU Tyson KO'd! (p.3) Monday > gld@cunixc.BITNET Mandela Freed! (p.7) Feb.11/90
my@decwrl.dec.com (Michael Yip) (06/05/91)
Where can I purchase the 207MB internal drives for the SUN? Which vendor dd SUN get it from and what's the model number? -- Mike my@berlioz.nsc.com
fitz@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Kerien Fitzpatrick) (06/05/91)
We've been running the 251Mb Hitachi drives in 8 SS1+ for about 9 months without a failure. These Hitachi drives generate a lot of heat (I have a Maxtor 340 Mb drive in my SS1+ and it runs much cooler). My vote for the answer is only install one high capacity drive and put it in the center. [I am not affiliated with either Maxtor or Hitachi in anyway, but....the Maxtor drive (340Mb) is *incredibly* quieter than the 251Mb Hitachi drives. The 207Mb Maxtor is also much quieter.] -- Kerien Fitzpatrick Pittsburgh, PA 15213 Field Robotics Center (412)268-6564 The Robotics Institute Internet: fitz@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu Carnegie Mellon University
gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) (06/05/91)
dav@gtc.com (David L. Markowitz) writes: >rhoward@msd.gatech.edu (Robert L. Howard) writes: > >>Can you put a 207 MB disk in a SS1+ (or an old SS1)? > >You can definitely put one 207 in an SS1, or two 104's, but >not two 207's (unless you add fans, a messy operation). Box Hill Systems is supposed to have a cooler-running 210 MB with a fan that tucks into an adjacent space within the pizza box. I've not seen it myself yet, but this is what I'm told. gld -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary L. Dare Trumps Split! (p.1) - NY Post, > gld@cunixD.cc.columbia.EDU Tyson KO'd! (p.3) Monday > gld@cunixc.BITNET Mandela Freed! (p.7) Feb.11/90
scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons) (06/05/91)
rhoward@msd.gatech.edu (Robert L. Howard) writes: >Can you put a 207 MB disk in a SS1+ (or an old SS1)? >I understand that part of the consideration is the power supply...if I >only have one 207 MB disk, will that consume more or less power than two >104's? Is it possible to actually put two 207's in a SS1+? dav@gtc.com (David L. Markowitz) writes: >There are two problems: power and cooling. The SS2 has an added fan and >air vents under the drives to handle the 207's. You can definitely put >one 207 in an SS1, or two 104's, but not two 207's (unless you add fans, a >messy operation). Being a paranoid sort, I'd dispute this. The 207MB drive generates a lot of heat all in one spot, possibly toasting whatever is under or over it. The SS-2 fan is specificly designed to draw heat away from that spot. I speak only from conjecture, of course. -- "SPAM is a registered trademark of a pork product packed only by Geo. A Hormel & Co. Corp." -- Sun Technical Bulletin, March 1991, pg ii
giacobbe@pilot.njin.net (Jeff Giacobbe) (06/05/91)
Regarding the installation of a 207meg drive in a SS1(+):
According to the Sun people I spoke with, there are two problems with
this;
1) The SS1(+) power supply may not be able to handle the 207meg drive.
2) Even more important, the 207meg drive is physically bigger than the
105meg drive (by about 1/4" - width) so it won't fit into the SS1(+)
case.
Like I said, that's the word from Sun........for what it's worth :-)
--
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@xxxxx{==============- -==============}xxxxx@ mferrare@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Mark Ferraretto) (06/11/91)
gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes: >>You can definitely put one 207 in an SS1, or two 104's, but >>not two 207's (unless you add fans, a messy operation). How about a 104 and one 207?
wolf@mink.att.com (Thomas Wolf) (06/28/91)
From article <3757@brchh104.bnr.ca>, by mferrare@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Mark Ferraretto): > gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes: > >>>You can definitely put one 207 in an SS1, or two 104's, but >>>not two 207's (unless you add fans, a messy operation). > > How about a 104 and one 207? I didn't catch the beginnings of this thread, but I'll throw in my 2-cents worth anyway :-) When we bought our SS1s a couple years back, SUN only sold the 104Mb drives (I think). In any event, we went to a 3-rd party vendor who sold the 207Meg drives and who assured us that they'd work ok in the SS1s. Now, I don't know whether it was lack of cooling, a bad batch of disks (they were all Maxtors), or whatever, but since this time, 4 (or 5, can't remember) out of 8 drives installed had to be replaced. Most recently (about 4 months ago) I replaced the latest "casualty" with a Rodime drive. So far, so good :-) The vendor who sold us the disks thinks we just bought a "bad batch" and that all their other customers were extremely happy with their 207s...So far, they were decent enough to replace the defective drives free of charge. Tom -- +-------------------------------------+ "Stupid" questions are better than | Thomas Wolf | (201) 615-4789 | no questions at all. No answer is | Bell Labs, NJ | wolf@mink.att.com | better than a stupid one. +-------------------------------------+
chris@com50.c2s.mn.org (Chris Johnson) (06/28/91)
In article <3757@brchh104.bnr.ca> mferrare@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Mark Ferraretto) writes: >gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes: > >>>You can definitely put one 207 in an SS1, or two 104's, but >>>not two 207's (unless you add fans, a messy operation). > >How about a 104 and one 207? Actually, it really depends on the amount of power each drive uses, and the amount of heat it generates. If you had a 207 MB drive that used the same or less power, and generated the same or less heat as a 104 MB, there would be no reason you could not put two of them in an SS1. However, I suspect for most people, they are talking about the specific model of drives that Sun ships, which are Quantum ProDrives for the 104 MB, and either a Quantum ProDrive or a Maxtor LXT for the 207 MB (at least in the machines we've gotten through here). I don't know about the Quantum 207 MB, but it is true that the Maxtor puts the SS1 power supply right at its crumbling edge with two of them stuffed in there, and I also know the Maxtors tend to run hotter. Whether that's too hot, I don't know, since I haven't done any real calculations. Note also that later model SPARCstations have better power supplies, and the SS2 has an auxilliary fan in the drive area. -- ...Chris Johnson chris@c2s.mn.org ..uunet!bungia!com50!chris Com Squared Systems, Inc. St. Paul, MN USA +1 612 452 9522