dtynan@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Der Tynan) (10/11/88)
I am trying to get my modem @ home to talk to the outside world. I am
currently time-multiplexing it, so that the modem can use the line at
night. I would like to have a separate line for the modem. I called
Pacific Bell (the local phone company), expecting a simple order request.
It turns out that the apartment building is not wired for two lines (how
short-sighted can you get!). PacBell will put in a second line, if I want.
There are two reasons why this is unacceptable. First, they want $45 for
the first fifteen minutes, and (I think) $12 for every 15 minutes after
that (make a rough guess how long it takes :-) Second, I don't see that
I should foot the bill for this apartment to have two lines. As an option,
I know I can move, but would like a better reason than that.
My question is, does anyone know of a way of solving this? It seems to
me, that if the phone line is ~5K bandwidth, and the actual line to the
exchange is maybe 10K, then I *should* be able to multiplex the line -
PacBell said no. Any comments? I'm sure this is a common problem, but I've
not seen anything on it recently.
- Der
--
Reply: dtynan@sultra.UUCP (Der Tynan @ Tynan Computers)
{mips,pyramid}!sultra!dtynan
Cast a cold eye on life, on death. Horseman, pass by... [WBY]lars%acc.arpa@bu-cs.BU.EDU (10/29/88)
> From: sultra!dtynan@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Der Tynan) > Reply-To: TELECOM@bu-cs.BU.EDU > Subject: I need a second line... > Date: 11 Oct 88 01:40:35 GMT > > ... I would like to have a separate line for [my] modem. I called > Pacific Bell (the local phone company), expecting a simple order request. > It turns out that the apartment building is not wired for two lines (how > short-sighted can you get!). PacBell will put in a second line, if I want. > ... they want $45 for the first fifteen minutes [of installation time], > and (I think) $12 for every 15 minutes after that. ... It seems to > me, that if the phone line is ~5K bandwidth, and the actual line to the > exchange is maybe 10K, then I *should* be able to multiplex the line - > PacBell said no. Any comments? Have I got comments !!!! This is outrageous !!!! This is a request for residential phone service: The tariff probably does not allow them to charge you by the hour for installing the access wiring (which after installation will be owned by the phone company). Some phone companies have tried to claim that all modem lines are business service rather than residential service. If this is what they are trying, talk to the PUC and explain why this is personal use, not business use. I have heard PUCs that will allow that a BBS is business service, but even that is the exception. The bandwidth of a metallic circuit is probably more like one megabit; this is why we are moving towards IDSN: 2 twisted pairs is 1544 kbps = 24 voice channels. In analog land, one twisted pair subscriber loop will carry two phone services, but this may already have been exploited, so this is none of your business. (The line belongs to PacBell, so YOU can't multiplex it; they can.) Santa Barbara, where I live, is GTE land, and we complain a lot, but they have NEVER tried to pull stunts like this one. / Lars Poulsen Advanced Computer Communications (Customer Service). My opinions are none of my employer's business if I express them after hours...
chip@vector.UUCP (Chip Rosenthal) (11/03/88)
> > It turns out that the apartment building is not wired for two lines (how > > short-sighted can you get!). PacBell will put in a second line, if I want. > > ... they want $45 for the first fifteen minutes [of installation time], > This is a request for residential phone service: The tariff probably > does not allow them to charge you by the hour for installing the > access wiring (which after installation will be owned by the phone > company). This doesn't sounds like they are charging for installing the wiring which will be owned by the phone company, but the wiring which will be owned by the customer. The Baby Bells (like PacBell) have a "delineation point" that separates telco-owned-and-maintained lines from customer-owned-and- maintained lines. They should be quite happy to give you a second line, up to and including a "network interface unit" box, for the standard order processing charge. What they're talking about charging you for is for installation of customer-premises ("inside") wire. If you can do that yourself somehow, they won't charge you for it. Before you go too far with it, make sure that they're right about your existing wiring. If your apartment building was wired in the last decade or so, it would be very strange for it not to have 4-conductor cable. (I don't think anyone even sells 2- or 3-conductor telephone cable anymore.) If you do have 4-conductor cable (red, green, yellow, and black conductors), you can indeed run two lines on the cable. Just connect yellow to the red of the second line and black to the green of the second line. [Sorry, I don't remember which is tip and which is ring.] If you do all this yourself and just have them put in the NIU, you'll save their service charges. In an apartment building, there might be other considerations, such as whether or not you can get physical access to the service area. Good luck.... On the subject of multiplexing: > In analog land, one twisted pair subscriber loop will carry two phone > services, but this may already have been exploited, so this is none of > your business. (The line belongs to PacBell, so YOU can't multiplex it; > they can.) Along the same lines, if you could multiplex the line that you use, then divide it out into two lines at the NIU, that wouldn't be any of their business (as long as you could find a line multiplexer FCC-approved for customer-premises use). It seems much easier to run a phone cable out your window and down a conduit if necessary, which is probably what they would do for their (overinflated) labor charges. (But they don't charge you for parts!) Again, good luck! -- John Owens john@jetson.UPMA.MD.US uunet!jetson!john +1 301 249 6000 john%jetson.uucp@uunet.uu.net
ron@ron.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) (11/08/88)
The bandwidth on a typical metallic phone line is dependent on the distance. T1 is only speced for 3000 feet. We know for a fact that it fails in less than twice that distance do to our hardware loopback behaviour. -Ron
chip@vector.UUCP (Chip Rosenthal) (11/09/88)
In Telecom Digest #157 sultra!dtynan@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Der Tynan) writes: }I am trying to get my modem @ home to talk to the outside world. I am }currently time-multiplexing it, so that the modem can use the line at }night. I would like to have a separate line for the modem. I called }Pacific Bell (the local phone company), expecting a simple order request. }It turns out that the apartment building is not wired for two lines (how }short-sighted can you get!). PacBell will put in a second line, if I want. }There are two reasons why this is unacceptable. First, they want $45 for }the first fifteen minutes, and (I think) $12 for every 15 minutes after }that (make a rough guess how long it takes :-) Second, I don't see that }I should foot the bill for this apartment to have two lines. As an option, }I know I can move, but would like a better reason than that. Well, that's ok, because summer before last, I had a second line installed in my apartment (for my junior year at UCSB), and it cost me something like $100 to have the guy come out and put it in. This included 15 minutes for him to install the jack in my room, since the apartment didn't have four conductor wire. Then, this past summer, I moved again, and wanted to drag my line with me. This time, we had four conductor wire, so all they had to do was bring the line up to the house, but it still cost about $75 or some- thing like that. Good old GTE! They said if he came inside it would cost, so I made it clear to him that he was to connect it outside the house to the extra two wires, and I checked it inside as soon as he did, and it worked. }My question is, does anyone know of a way of solving this? It seems to }me, that if the phone line is ~5K bandwidth, and the actual line to the }exchange is maybe 10K, then I *should* be able to multiplex the line - }PacBell said no. Any comments? I'm sure this is a common problem, but I've }not seen anything on it recently. I've heard of people having multiplexors outside the house to get two lines in cases where the wire to the phone company is underground or something like that where they can't drag another one from the pole. However, I've also been warned to avoid it if possible. Just let PacBell bring another line in from the pole and be glad you aren't getting ripped off by GTE instead of PacBell! - ----- Steve Lemke ------------------- "MS-DOS (OS/2, etc.) - just say no!" - ----- Internet: steve@ivucsb.UUCP; lemke@apple.COM AppleLink: LEMKE - ----- uucp: pyramid!comdesign!ivucsb!steve CompuServe: 73627,570 - ----- alt.uucp: {decwrl!}sun!apple!lemke GEnie: S.Lemke - ----- Quote: "What'd I go to college for?" "You had fun, didn't you?"
jordan@ads.com (Jordan Hayes) (11/19/88)
PacBell will put in a second line, if I want. Last time I had a bunch of lines put in, my apt. was (obviously) not wired for it. I put in two 8-wire jacks next to each other, connected with a 6" length of connectorized cable, and told them "bring me 3 lines" and it cost me the minimum $45 to do it, since they didn't have to install jacks or anything, and i drilled a hole through the wall near the jack for them to run the wire to. It took the guy all day to do the job (his dime, not mine) because the main block on the apt. building did not have enough capacity, and there also wasn't enough capacity from the box on the street to my apt. building. "Do it yourself and save $$$" /jordan