INTERMAIL@A.ISI.EDU (11/06/88)
>I am trying to get my modem @ home to talk to the outside world. I am >currently time-multiplexing it, so that the modem can use the line at >night. I would like to have a separate line for the modem. I called >Pacific Bell (the local phone company), expecting a simple order request. >It turns out that the apartment building is not wired for two lines (how >short-sighted can you get!)............ That I find hard to believe. As far as I know, most apartment bldgs are are prewired with 12 or 25 pair multiconductor. It is unusual that an apartment bldg would not be prewired, those cases usually happen if the bldg is real old, or you have 3 units or less. >...........................PacBell will put in a second line, if I want. >There are two reasons why this is unacceptable. First, they want $45 for >the first fifteen minutes, and (I think) $12 for every 15 minutes after >that (make a rough guess how long it takes :-) Second, I don't see that >I should foot the bill for this apartment to have two lines. As an option, >I know I can move, but would like a better reason than that. >My question is, does anyone know of a way of solving this? It seems to >me, that if the phone line is ~5K bandwidth, and the actual line to the >exchange is maybe 10K, then I *should* be able to multiplex the line - >PacBell said no. Any comments? I'm sure this is a common problem, but I've >not seen anything on it recently. Yes, you could mux 2 lines on 1 pair (T-Carriers are usually 4 wire, and since 1 pair is each direction, it is usually easier to mux those than 2 bi-directional carriers.) Essentially, you would be muxing at the demarc since that is where the local telco cable pairs are coming into you. BUT, before you go through all this, look before you leap........ First, go find your entry point for the cable pairs from the pole/street, and find the Network Interface, where the protectors are. If you already have a line to your apartment, it HAS to be standard 4-conductor cable. If you do find that, the all you have to do is just use the unused pair (yellow and black) of wires, and then either seperate them in your apartment to 2 jacks or combine them on the same jack that the RJ-11/RJ-13 jacks allow for. Pac Bell WILL make sure you have dial tone at the Network Interface (or a 66 block if you are in a large apartment bldg). From there, it's your line to do whatever you want. Now this is if you are in a small apartment bldg with recent wiring. In a large apartment bldg, just look for a similiar color pair thats not being used at the interface, then in your apartment, take the wallplate off, and look for the same colored pair you hooked up downstairs. If you are in a large, old bldg, you most likely will have old 2-conductor running from the basement. What you want to look for then is an airshaft, and there are usually plenty in an old bldg. Then all you have to do is run a new line from the basement to your aparment. You will need the owners permission (you would anyway for Pac Bell to do it), because you most likely be 2 apartments away from an air shaft (I have been luckly, so far. I always ended up in an apt with a shaft next to the bathroom). What you do is run the telephone wire on the hallway ledge, the drop it into your apt underneath your door (run down from the ledge along your door, that way you dont need to drill anywhere, and with old plaster, you would not want to.....). I have been in enough apartments that one or the other HAS to apply. If you are in a situation that the above does not apply, I would *love* to hear about it. I will say, though, houses are a lot easier to wire. I finally moved to one, and I had it finished in 15 minutes, once they ran the 2nd cable pair to the house for the 2nd line. Robert Michael Gutierrez MCI Telecommuncations Western Region Customer Trouble Management Center Hayward, California. *(Of course) The above views do not represent my employers, ya-da ya-da ya-da.....
donn@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Donn Pedro) (11/13/88)
In article <telecom-v08i0172m04@vector.UUCP>, INTERMAIL@A.ISI.EDU writes: > >I am trying to get my modem @ home to talk to the outside world. I am > >currently time-multiplexing it, so that the modem can use the line at > >night. I would like to have a separate line for the modem. I called > >Pacific Bell (the local phone company), expecting a simple order > request. > >It turns out that the apartment building is not wired for two lines That is a distinct possability depending on the age of the building and sthe type of IW ( inside wire ) installed in the building. > (how > >short-sighted can you get!)............ > > That I find hard to believe. As far as I know, most apartment bldgs are > are prewired with 12 or 25 pair multiconductor. It is unusual that an Yes most are but, the multiconductor you will find in most apartment jacks is called E-wire. It is looped through *all* the outlets on a particular run. Therefore there can be *many* faults in the IW. Combined with the fact that there is almost never enough good wire to start with, you may not have that second pair available. If you live in an older building than that you might very well have one three conductor wire running to your apartment. > >...........................PacBell will put in a second line, if I want. > >There are two reasons why this is unacceptable. First, they want $45 for > >the first fifteen minutes, and (I think) $12 for every 15 minutes after > >that (make a rough guess how long it takes :-) Second, I don't see that > >I should foot the bill for this apartment to have two lines. As an option, > >I know I can move, but would like a better reason than that. > >My question is, does anyone know of a way of solving this? It seems to > >me, that if the phone line is ~5K bandwidth, and the actual line to the > >exchange is maybe 10K, then I *should* be able to multiplex the line - > >PacBell said no. Any comments? I'm sure this is a common problem, but I've > >not seen anything on it recently. > > Yes, you could mux 2 lines on 1 pair (T-Carriers are usually 4 wire, and > since 1 pair is each direction, it is usually easier to mux those than > 2 bi-directional carriers.) Essentially, you would be muxing at the demarc > since that is where the local telco cable pairs are coming into you. BUT, > before you go through all this, look before you leap........ Good advice about looking first. You might very well disrupt your neighbors service by getting in that demark. > First, go find your entry point for the cable pairs from the pole/street, and > find the Network Interface, where the protectors are. If you already have a > line to your apartment, it HAS to be standard 4-conductor cable. If you do ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ don't bet on it. > > Robert Michael Gutierrez > MCI Telecommuncations > Western Region Customer Trouble Management Center > Hayward, California. Mostly good advice from Robert deleted above.... but.... Just give the old Pac Bell man a try. He will show up for the work and after inspecting the job, give you an estimate. It's not cheap but it might not be as expensive as you think. If you don't like the price then cancel the order. What the Customer Service clerk was telling you was that there are *currently* no second service pairs hooked up to your apartment. That doesnt mean that I couldn't get you hooked up in fifteen minutes. If you need more information then e-mail for my telephone number. I'll be glad to help out. Donn F Pedro UUCP ...uw-beaver!tikal!mcgp1!donn Formerly: Business Services Technician Pacific Bell, California ( and dam* good at it too ) ;^) "You talk the talk. Do you walk the walk?"
jimmy@vector.uucp (Jim Gottlieb) (11/13/88)
In article <telecom-v08i0172m04@vector.UUCP>, Robert Gutierrez writes: > That I find hard to believe. As far as I know, most apartment bldgs are > are prewired with 12 or 25 pair multiconductor. This was true back in the good old days when the local telco did the pre-wire. Unfortunately, it is now up to the builder to provide the telephone wiring in the building. And since most builders just see this as one more expense, they often do it as cheaply as possible. What do THEY care if they only put one or two pairs to each apartment. I've even seen buildings using jumper wire. I don't know what we can do about this problem. I find it increasingly difficult to locate an apartment with decent wiring. ANY building built within the last five years is out of the question. Most of these have two pairs and no crawl space or other way to run anything more. I hope it comes back to haunt them (the builders) when more people like me won't rent their apartments because of a lack of wiring. -- Jim G. E-Mail: <jimmy@denwa.uucp> or <jimmy@pic.ucla.edu> ^^^^^^ V-Mail: (213) 551-7702 Fax: 478-3060 The-Real-Me: 824-5454
seeger@beach.cis.ufl.edu (F. L. Charles Seeger III) (11/15/88)
In article <telecom-v08i0179m02@vector.UUCP> ucla-an!denwa!jimmy@vector.uucp (Jim Gottlieb) writes: |In article <telecom-v08i0172m04@vector.UUCP>, Robert Gutierrez writes: |> That I find hard to believe. As far as I know, most apartment bldgs are |> are prewired with 12 or 25 pair multiconductor. | |This was true back in the good old days when the local telco did the |pre-wire. Unfortunately, it is now up to the builder to provide the |telephone wiring in the building. And since most builders just see |this as one more expense, [ -deleted- ] | |I don't know what we can do about this problem. I find it increasingly |difficult to locate an apartment with decent wiring. ANY building |built within the last five years is out of the question. Most of these |have two pairs and no crawl space or other way to run anything more. | |I hope it comes back to haunt them (the builders) when more people like |me won't rent their apartments because of a lack of wiring. Maybe we need something akin to the National Electric Code, which would give individual states guidance in what to require in local codes. This may be difficult or impossible in the current political climate, especially since this isn't a matter of safety. About the only other idea that pops into my head is to do what I did, i.e. buy your own house. Do other countries, e.g. Canada, have a similar problem? Chuck
roy@phri (Roy Smith) (11/17/88)
> Unfortunately, it is now up to the builder to provide the telephone > wiring in the building. [...] What do THEY care if they only put one or > two pairs to each apartment. My building (In Brooklyn, NY) is essentially new construction about 2-1/2 years ago. I assume NY Tel did the insider feeder wiring; there is a 25-pair cable for each line of 6 apartments (i.e. over 4 pairs per apartment). What's somewhat surprising is that the cable runs through a closet in each apartment with a loop of the outer sheath cut away to expose the individual pairs for 6 or 8 inches. I could tap anybody's phone (withing my vertical line) without leaving the comfort of my own home. -- Roy Smith, System Administrator Public Health Research Institute {allegra,philabs,cmcl2,rutgers}!phri!roy -or- phri!roy@uunet.uu.net "The connector is the network"
dtynan@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Der Tynan) (11/22/88)
In article <telecom-v08i0182m05@vector.UUCP>, roy@phri (Roy Smith) writes: > > [...] What's somewhat surprising is that the cable runs through a > closet in each apartment with a loop of the outer sheath cut away to expose > the individual pairs for 6 or 8 inches. I could tap anybody's phone > (withing my vertical line) without leaving the comfort of my own home. > Roy Smith, System Administrator I found the same thing, when I recently had a second line installed. I asked the phone company technician about it, and he agreed. He said, however, that "most people don't know enough to be able to do anything with it". Not only can you tap someone's phone (or vice versa), but you could make LD calls on their ticket. - Der -- dtynan@zorba.Tynan.COM (Dermot Tynan @ Tynan Computers) {apple,mips,pyramid,uunet}!Tynan.COM!dtynan --- If the Law is for the People, then why do we need Lawyers? ---
woolsey@nsc.NSC.COM (Jeff Woolsey) (12/01/88)
While I was attending college and living at my parents' house, I had a second line installed for my use. When the time came to leave home I had the service terminated, but I left a multi-line set on it as an extension upstairs for my parents' line. When I returned for a visit a few months later I discovered that the line was live again, and assigned to some business elsewhere in the neighborhood. I obtained its number from ANAC and it was definitely different from the number I had when I used the line... -- -- Television is a medium: it's rarely well done. - Ernie Kovacs Jeff Woolsey woolsey@nsc.NSC.COM -or- woolsey@umn-cs.cs.umn.EDU