gmw1@cunixd.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) (08/07/89)
Recently it was mentioned that there are thousands of non-dialable points left in California. Just out of curiosity... What cities (or should I say villages) are still-non dialable? Do such places have outbound dialing or is all calling still operator-assist? I would think that with today's telephone technology, DDD would reach _all_ points in America. Can anyone explain the holdouts? Thanks, -G [Moderator's Note: Mr. Covert's article recent article stating 'there are thousands of non-dialable points' also caught my attention. If he was including toll-stations in his count, I'd say there might be a couple hundred such places; if his calculations were only of manual exchange service, which all of us were at one point and few (if any) of us are now, it defies my imagination that there are 'thousands of them left....especially in California...'. If there are thousands of them, perhaps Mr. Covert will write an article and name just a dozen or so. Even a lot of the Nevada toll- stations have been picked up by other exchanges in the recent past, but toll-stations are NOT the same as manual exchanges in any event. PT]
covert@covert.enet.dec.com (John R. Covert) (08/08/89)
In my recent article on Inward, I referred to "non-dialable points." That term includes non-dialable exchanges, toll stations, and other strange things. To check my numbers, I did a search of a Bellcore database about four years old for points in North America with the non-dialable flag set, and came up with 4589 of them. I then excluded Mexico and had 1657 left. After excluding the Caribbean, Canada, Wake and Midway, there were only 825 left, so I'll admit that "thousands" was an exaggeration when referring to the U.S. They are located in AK, AZ, CA, ID, KY, LA, MT, NV, OR, TX, UT, and WA. Most of them are toll stations, but a few are exchanges. For the doubting ones among you, call 206 555-1212 and ask for the Ross Lake Nat'l Rec Area in Newhalem, Washington. You will be told to dial your "0" operator (Outside the LATA you'd have to call your "00" operator or 10288-0 if you're not an AT&T customer) and ask for Newhalem 7735. This is an automatic exchange which cannot support incoming toll calls. Local calls are dialled on a four digit basis. The incoming restriction may be due to a long-standing requirement that calls be diallable on a seven digit basis locally (also allowing less is ok, but seven must work) before incoming calls can be permitted. It may also have something to do with the fact that the power company owns the switch and the wires in and out of the area, and the phone company may not want to deal with the maintenance issue or doesn't trust them to return proper answer supervision. More interesting is the system in Shoup, Idaho. Call 208 555-1212 and ask for the Shoup Salmon River store -- you'll be told to call Shoup 24F3. It is what's called a "Farmer's Line," and it's sort of a single magneto drop with several stations. The people out there maintain the line themselves. It's single wire ground return. The people on the line call each other with coded ringing (and being allowed to make local calls is one of the things that makes a farmer's line different from a toll station). They get incoming calls with coded ringing from the operator at a cord board. They contact the cord board to get out with a loooooong ring. The board handling calls is an AT&T board. One of my favorite toll stations is the one at the ranch of a person I've never met. Mr. J. D. Dye isn't listed with directory assistance anywhere I've found, but he is listed right in the Bellcore database. Yep. He doesn't have a phone number, but you can reach him by asking for DYE J D, in Texas, if you can get an operator to look it up in her computer. Note: Rate and Route, which used to be 141 (not 131, as Patrick claimed, that was information) is gone, and has been replaced with computer terminals at each operator's position. Somewhere nearby there are also Durham Ed, TX and Durham Hal, TX. A place I've actually visited (the Patrick Creek Lodge in Gasquet, CA) used to be Idlewild 5. They appear to have disconnected their toll station and now have an answering machine on a normal number located 8 miles from the lodge. Idlewild 1,2,3,4,7,8, and 9 still exist -- and are handled off of an AT&T cord board, not a PacTel board. One of the big non-dialable places in Northern California, Sawyers Bar, has finally become diallable. Like Newhalem, they had local dialing, but could not be dialled from toll. They were listed in the database like toll stations, with each subscriber having a rate and route listing. Now their old four digit numbers (mostly 46XX numbers) are 462-46XX. Pilottown, Louisiana is still a toll station -- the only one in the state, it seems. Amchitka, Alaska, has a normal looking seven digit number for billing purposes: 907 751-8001, but from the lower 48, calls must be placed through Anchorage. I'm sure some of our other readers can find more non-diallable points, both entire exchanges (of which I don't expect to find more than 5-10 in the U.S.) and toll stations (of which there are still several hundred). /john [Moderator's Note: Bravo! and thank you for a most enjoyable contribution to the Digest. PT]
ceb@csli.stanford.edu (Charles Buckley) (08/08/89)
From: gmw1@cunixd.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom Date: 6 Aug 89 20:59:16 GMT Organization: Columbia University Recently it was mentioned that there are thousands of non-dialable points left in California. Just out of curiosity... I remember about 6 years ago when I was in the habit of getting up early and watching one of those morning news programs where the weather, feature articles and good-natured banter took longer than the news portions . . . One feature article on said program was about the introduction of dial service in some out of the way place east of Eastern Pennsylvania but west of Ohio, and south of the great Lakes but north of Tennessee - I remember seeing it on the drawn map, but cannot remember the political entity. Anyway, as you might have guessed, this made the program because it was given to be the *last* manual exchange in the US. Therefore, someone has their facts wrong (could well be the news agency). [Moderator's Note: Every so often, a program or news story says 'this is the last one'....there was supposed to be one in Maine a few years ago which was the last, and the subscribers were *resisting* the change, for nostalgic reasons among others. The original poster contended '...there are thousands of them left....especially in California....' and I am hoping he will write again soon, and name a dozen or so. The last one I knew of in California was the town of Avalon, on Santa Catalina Island. It cut to dial several years ago. Prior to the conversion, William Wrigley, the chewing gum magnate and former owner of the Chicago Cubs, had an estate in Avalon. The phone number was Avalan 400. He also had Avalan 401. Both were non-published numbers, of course. PT]
edg@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Edward Greenberg) (08/09/89)
>toll-stations are NOT the same as manual exchanges in any event. PT]
Could you explain a bit about what a toll station IS?
Thanks,
Ed Greenberg
uunet!apple!netcom!edg
[Moderator's Note: In this issue of the Digest, Ed and others, I hope the
type of service known as Toll Stations and other types of non-dialable
points has become clear to all. As for *actual manual exchanges* -- that
is, cord board service to a community of more than one or two people in
the wilderness somewhere -- I do believe Bryant Pond, ME was the last one.
Mr. Covert seems to think there might be a few more. Can anyone name
names at this point? An interesting angle is the way calls to these
places show up on your phone bill. The billing will show the area code
and the 'mark', meaning the three digit code -- not necessarily the prefix
of the number -- used for billing purposes, and the final four digits,
filled with leading zeros as required. PT]onymouse@ames.arc.nasa.gov (John DeBert) (08/09/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0277m02@vector.dallas.tx.us>, gmw1@cunixd.cc.columbia. edu (Gabe M Wiener) says: > X-TELECOM-Digest: volume 9, issue 277, message 2 of 11 > Recently it was mentioned that there are thousands of non-dialable points > left in California. Just out of curiosity... If one were to include toll stations, non-coin and COPT phones and other lines or services with a COS that prevents indial access (including OUTWATS of course), then there are surely thousands not only in CA but everywhere. > > What cities (or should I say villages) are still-non dialable? > Do such places have outbound dialing or is all calling > still operator-assist? On the Central Coast, I can only recall of one set of toll stations that remain: Tassajara Hot Springs has somewhere from 4 to 9 stations. There was one to the east of SIllyCon Valley called "San Antone" which belonged to Pac Bell. The area served by the toll stations was taken over by a private party in 1983 ( +/- a year). They have their own prefix (408-897) and DDD in and out is available. They have a few equipment problems, though, including coin stations that are installed but never work. It's anywhere from 20 to 60 miles to the nearest town or point with coin phones. > I would think that with today's telephone technology, DDD would reach _all_ > points in America. Can anyone explain the holdouts? Toll stations usually still exist because the phone company does not feel that there is enough reason to justify installing cables, trunks and remote facilities to serve such remote areas as Tassajara Hot Springs and San Antone and others. They are a long way from existing CO's - Tassajara sites are more than 50 miles from the nearest CO and all points in San Antone are 20 to 70 miles from the nearest 408 CO in San Jose. (The present CO is in Patterson, in the 209 area about 40 miles from the middle of San Antone.) That's a lot of money to invest in an area that is very sparsely populated and with no expected increase in population in the near future and cannot be considered to pay for itself. Small independent telco's often end up providing service using very old equipment as is the case with SAn Antone and Pinnacles in CA.