SINGER@almaden.ibm.com (David Singer) (08/26/89)
I know that some AOS companies have access to the AT&T/BOC PIN database so they can verify my card and charge me through my local phone company. Am I safe from AOSes when I call the MCI 950 (or 800) number and use my MCI Card? David Singer (singer@almaden.ibm.com, n6tfx@n6tfx.ampr.org) Disclaimer: Yes.
john@gatech.edu (John DeArmond) (08/27/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0325m07@vector.dallas.tx.us> SINGER@almaden.ibm.com (David Singer) writes: >I know that some AOS companies have access to the AT&T/BOC PIN database so >they can verify my card and charge me through my local phone company. Am I >safe from AOSes when I call the MCI 950 (or 800) number and use my MCI Card? NO!! you are not. If you place a call through a COCOT or a phone in a captive envronment (hotel, hospital, etc), the AOS has the technical ability to trap ALL routing requests and charge through their systems. And if the AOS is sleezy (as most are), they will even imitate other carriers. A few years ago, I worked on a team that designed a central office system for an AOS. This system trapped all calls and handled them through the AOS facilities. The display on the operator's console told her what carrier the caller had requested so she could act like an AT&T operator or whatever. The FCC has ruled that this practice is illegal but it continues. I tested a phone known to be on this AOS a couple of weeks ago and found them doing the same old stuff. Best advice I can give is to totally avoid pay phones that don't have the name of the local BOC on them and when in captive environments, ASK who the LD carrier is. I personally refuse to patronize any facility such as hotels that uses an AOS. And I vocally tell them why. Remember that one of the major reasons AOS systems have grown like they have is the greed of the facility owners. The kickbacks are sometimes irrestible. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC | Manual? ... What manual ?!? Sales Technologies, Inc. Atlanta, GA | This is Unix, My son, You ...!gatech!stiatl!john **I am the NRA** | just GOTTA Know!!!
mvp@apple.com (Mike Van Pelt) (08/29/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0328m03@vector.dallas.tx.us> John DeArmond <stiatl! john@gatech.edu> writes: > ... the AOS has the technical ability to trap ALL routing requests >and charge through their systems. And if the AOS is sleezy (as most >are), they will even imitate other carriers. ... > ... This [AOS] system trapped all calls and handled them through the >AOS facilities. The display on the operator's console told her what >carrier the caller had requested so she could act like an AT&T operator >or whatever. >The FCC has ruled that this practice is illegal but it continues. Suppose you just flatly refuse to pay any charges that come from an AOS? Make sure that you place no calls unless the operator says "BOINGGGGGgggg AT&T." Then when the AOS bills you, you can confidently tell them "I did not place any such call through your company. I never place calls from (hotels, pay phones, etc.) through anyone but AT&T, and I ALWAYS make sure the operator SAYS AT&T. (Or MCI, Sprint, or whatever.) This charge is, therefore, obviously fraudulent. Carbon copy the FCC or whoever else would be interested in this kind of criminal activity. Since they have illegally placed this charge on your bill, I don't think they're quite stupid enough to attempt to take you to court. If they attack your credit rating, you could probably sue them for really big bucks. -- Mike Van Pelt Will your long-winded speeches never Headland Technology/Video 7 end? What ails you that you keep on ...ames!vsi1!v7fs1!mvp arguing? -- Job 16:3
miket@brspyr1.brs.com (Mike Trout) (08/30/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0328m03@vector.dallas.tx.us>, stiatl!john@gatech.edu (John DeArmond) writes: > In article <telecom-v09i0325m07@vector.dallas.tx.us> SINGER@almaden.ibm.com > (David Singer) writes: > >I know that some AOS companies have access to the AT&T/BOC PIN database so > >they can verify my card and charge me through my local phone company. Am I > >safe from AOSes when I call the MCI 950 (or 800) number and use my MCI Card? > NO!! you are not. If you place a call through a COCOT or a phone in > a captive envronment (hotel, hospital, etc), the AOS has the technical > ability to trap ALL routing requests and charge through their systems. > And if the AOS is sleezy (as most are), they will even imitate other > carriers. I just received my new MCI card (actually, just the same as the old one; this one gives five miles on Northwest Airlines per dollar spent on MCI), and there was some interesting accompanying literature. In "The MCI/Northwest WORLDPERKS Card Wallet Guide to long distance calling": "Use your MCI/Northwest WORLDPERKS Card Around Town...Make long distance or international calls from a touch-tone phone in your local calling area. Your calls will be free of the normal surcharge imposed by long distance carriers. Or from your hotel...First dial 9, or the appropriate number to get an outside local line. Then dial 950-1022. This way you will not be charged by the hotel for your long distance calls." But in "A Guide to Long Distance Calling with your MCI/Northwest WORLDPERKS Card:" "Calling long distance from around town. You can use your MCI/Northwest WORLDPERKS Card to make long distance calls while around town at the same low MCI rates you enjoy at home or the office. When making long distance or international calls from a touch-tone phone in your local area, your calls are free of the normal surcharge imposed by long distance carriers. This includes calls from any corner pay phone, restaurant or store phone, a business associate's office or private phone. With MCI's Around Town feature, you can save up to 80 cents on every call." "Using a hotel phone. First dial 9, or the appropriate number to get an outside local line. Then dial 950-1022 and follow the normal steps to make a call." Of course, whether any of this actually works as advertised is open to discussion. Actually, I've used my MCI card for years happily, but then I tend to use it only for non-complex domestic calls from Baby Bell pay phones. -- NSA food: Iran sells Nicaraguan drugs to White House through CIA, SOD & NRO. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Michael Trout (miket@brspyr1)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BRS Information Technologies, 1200 Rt. 7, Latham, N.Y. 12110 (518) 783-1161 "God forbid we should ever be 20 years without...a rebellion." Thomas Jefferson
john@gatech.edu (John DeArmond) (08/30/89)
v7fs1!mvp@apple.com (Mike Van Pelt) writes: >Suppose you just flatly refuse to pay any charges that come from an >AOS? Important point I forgot to mention. The customer service area was right out side our development area. I frequently observed them in action. The policy was to refund almost any charge unless it was a blantant attempt at cheating. Their philosophy was that the business was so profitable that they could afford to give a few bogus refunds rather than risk having someone complain to authorities. You should keep this in mind if you ever get an AOS bill. >Make sure that you place no calls unless the operator says >"BOINGGGGGgggg AT&T." Then when the AOS bills you, you can confidently >tell them "I did not place any such call through your company. I never >place calls from (hotels, pay phones, etc.) through anyone but AT&T, >and I ALWAYS make sure the operator SAYS AT&T. (Or MCI, Sprint, or >whatever.) This charge is, therefore, obviously fraudulent. Carbon >copy the FCC or whoever else would be interested in this kind of >criminal activity. NO, you cannot make that claim. We synthesized the bong and other AT&T call progress sounds exactly (Easy to do with a dsp board in a PC. In case any of you are wondering about my ethics, I was told that they had an agreement with AT&T on this subject.) The operators were trained to use the data we presented them and analyze the call as to profit potential. If the call could not be easily billed or did not appear to be profitable, it was handed off to AT&T - after trapping out the AT&T operator's greeting, of course. Your best defense, after boycotting all AOS facilities of course, is to ask the operator explicitly who they work for. Even this AOS would not direct the operators to lie to such a direct question. And of course, complain like hell if you get a bill from any of these sharks. Yes, this stuff is illegal now, but then, so is odometer rollback. Both both still happen. Until AOSs are outlawed alltogether, these problems will continue to exist. The problem is that since AOS operations are akin to printing money, it attracted the same class of people one might find in a counterfeiting operation. (Then, in response to another correspondent) miket@brspyr1.brs.com (Mike Trout) writes: >I just received my new MCI card (actually, just the same as the old one; this >one gives five miles on Northwest Airlines per dollar spent on MCI), and there >was some interesting accompanying literature. >In "The MCI/Northwest WORLDPERKS Card Wallet Guide to long distance calling": >"Use your MCI/Northwest WORLDPERKS Card Around Town...Make long distance or >international calls from a touch-tone phone in your local calling area. Your >calls will be free of the normal surcharge imposed by long distance carriers. >Or from your hotel...First dial 9, or the appropriate number to get an outside >local line. Then dial 950-1022. This way you will not be charged by the hotel >for your long distance calls." NO, NO, NO, NO, a thousand times, NO. This WILL NOT work in facilities that are signed up with an AOS that cheats - which is what we're worried about. The AOS has total control over your environment. How much control they choose to exercise is up to them. Let's review how this works. Consider a motel environment. The motel has a PBX that handles room calls. The PBX also connects to a few POTS lines for placing 9+ and 8+ numbers. The PBX handles routing your call to the line and in some cases, charging your room for the call. When an AOS comes in, they break the POTS lines and insert smart dialers. These devices look a lot like modems and are designed to redirect calls placed through them. The smart dialer traps the numbers the PBX outputs and disposes of them according to how they were programmed. In the system I worked with, the smartdialer trapped the subscriber's numbers and then dialed an 800 number connected to our switch. The smartdialer then outputs the trapped numbers. The call is processed by the AOS switch. In our case, even local calls were routed to the switch and redialed LONG DISTANCE (That they could get away with this shows how profitable this is). This was specifically designed to prevent users from dialing the 950- or 800- access numbers and bypassing the AOS. Yes, this practice is illegal and yes it still exists. Caller beware! John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC | Manual? ... What manual ?!? Sales Technologies, Inc. Atlanta, GA | This is Unix, My son, You ...!gatech!stiatl!john **I am the NRA** | just GOTTA Know!!!