AI.CLIVE@mcc.com (Clive Dawson) (10/07/89)
I've had several years of trouble-free operation from my Panasonic
KX-T2425 phone answering machine. This changed about a month ago; it
now exhibits some very annoying behavior, but I'm not sure if this is
a problem with the machine, or whether it is caused by a change in the
behavior in the central office switch, or whether it is caused by a
change in the length of my outgoing message. (This last possibility
didn't occur to me until just now, and may be the most likely.)
What happens is that anytime somebody decides to hang up and not leave
a message, I get a "message" anyway consisting of:
One ring tone
"If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again.
If you need help, please hang up and dial your operator."
One minute's worth of the loud, fast tone denoting that
your phone has been left off-hook.
Skipping past as many as 5 or 6 of these a day is getting to be a pain.
Questions:
-- Is it possible that my machine has lost its ability to
detect a remote hang-up? Do Panasonic machines detect
remote hang-ups, or do they simply detect silence on the
line in order to decide whether/when to start/stop recording?
-- Is it correct for the off-hook warning stuff to be triggered
under these circumstances? Is this the norm?
-- Is the length of time before the off-hook warning triggers
a settable parameter in ESS switches? The current timeout
seems to be 30 seconds, which is precisely equal to the
maximum length of an outgoing message on many (Panasonic, at
least) answering machines. This means that the warning
starts just when the machine goes into record mode, checking
for sound on the line in order to decide whether somebody is
leaving a message.
-- Would it be wishful thinking to believe I could convince
the Telco folks to lengthen this timeout period to, say,
45 seconds or a minute?
-- Do other people have this problem?
I suppose the obvious thing to try is to reduce the length of my
outgoing message. Maybe if I can get a few more seconds of silence
before the off-hook warning starts, the machine will properly conclude
that no message is forthcoming and hang up.
Any help/comments/suggestions appreciated!
Cliveroy@uunet.uu.net (Roy M. Silvernail) (10/10/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0435m03@vector.dallas.tx.us>, AI.CLIVE@mcc.com (Clive Dawson) writes: > I've had several years of trouble-free operation from my Panasonic > a message, I get a "message" anyway consisting of: > [message deleted] > If you need help, please hang up and dial your operator." > Skipping past as many as 5 or 6 of these a day is getting to be a pain. In Anchorage, the message is "I'm sorry... you have exceeded the time allowed to place a call. Please hang up and try your call again. This is a recording... 907... 33." (the 33 is the first 2 digits of my exchange) > -- Is it possible that my machine has lost its ability to > detect a remote hang-up? Do Panasonic machines detect > remote hang-ups, or do they simply detect silence on the > line in order to decide whether/when to start/stop recording? My machine is a Code-a-Phone. I believe it only detects silence, and not a genuine early hang-up. > -- Is it correct for the off-hook warning stuff to be triggered > under these circumstances? Is this the norm? My best guess is that callers hear my machine pick up and hang up right away, or hang up a split-second *before* my machine picks up. Either way, it seems to trigger the off-hook warning. On the bright side, the fast reorder-like screech causes my machine to hang up, so I only have to fast-forward past the voice. [...] > -- Do other people have this problem? Yup.... :-( Roy M. Silvernail | UUCP: uunet!comcon!roy | "Life in the arctic is no picnic" [ah, but it's my account... of course I opine!] -touristy T-shirt SnailMail: P.O. Box 210856, Anchorage, Alaska, 99521-0856, U.S.A., Earth, etc.
john@zygot.ati.com (John Higdon) (10/10/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0435m03@vector.dallas.tx.us>, AI.CLIVE@mcc.com (Clive Dawson) writes: > I've had several years of trouble-free operation from my Panasonic > KX-T2425 phone answering machine. This changed about a month ago; > ... > Questions: (and some answers) > -- Is it possible that my machine has lost its ability to > detect a remote hang-up? Do Panasonic machines detect > remote hang-ups, or do they simply detect silence on the > line in order to decide whether/when to start/stop recording? Possibly, but more likely, your telco has installed a new switch, probably a DMS running a rotten generic that doesn't provide reliable CPC. This is that brief interruption in battery that lets key systems and answering machines know that the distant party has hung up. > -- Is it correct for the off-hook warning stuff to be triggered > under these circumstances? Is this the norm? It is possible that your CO now reverts to that off-hook stuff immediately after the distant party has disconnected. You might check it manually by having a friend hang up after calling you and seeing what happens. > -- Is the length of time before the off-hook warning triggers > a settable parameter in ESS switches? The current timeout > seems to be 30 seconds, which is precisely equal to the > maximum length of an outgoing message on many (Panasonic, at > least) answering machines. This means that the warning > starts just when the machine goes into record mode, checking > for sound on the line in order to decide whether somebody is > leaving a message. All of the Panasonic answering machines that I have encountered detect and utilized CPC. On my 1ESS lines, my old Panasonic would reset immediately, even if the caller hung up just a few seconds into the outgoing announcement (OGM, for you Panasonic afficianados). It must also be pointed out that the 1/1A ESS switches have the BEST CPC in telephony. It is immediate, solid (at least 600 ms), and totally realiable. > -- Would it be wishful thinking to believe I could convince > the Telco folks to lengthen this timeout period to, say, > 45 seconds or a minute? Oh yes, I'm afraid so. Those timeouts are "cast in stone" in the generic. While they can be adjusted in the field, I can't imagine a telco monkeying with them because a residential subscriber was inconvenienced in the operation of his answering machine. What you might complain about instead is the lack of reliable CPC. I know of people who have complained very loudly and have actually been rewarded with results in this area. The NT DMS is notorious for this problem but it is also correctable with the proper programming. > -- Do other people have this problem? You bet. > I suppose the obvious thing to try is to reduce the length of my > outgoing message. Maybe if I can get a few more seconds of silence > before the off-hook warning starts, the machine will properly conclude > that no message is forthcoming and hang up. That would be one band-aid solution. I would first start with your telco and find out if they have installed a DMS recently. If so, rag on them about CPC. If not, find out what it is (and then rag on them about CPC). John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@zygot.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o !
steve@dmntor.uucp (Steve Pozgaj) (10/11/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0435m03@vector.dallas.tx.us> (Clive Dawson) writes: > ... What happens is that anytime somebody decides to hang up and not leave > a message, I get a "message" anyway consisting of [description deleted] ... > -- Do other people have this problem? Yes! I bought my first answering machine over a year ago. It was a two-cassette model, with a list of features a mile long. It had *exactly* the same problem as Clive mentions, except the recorded message was something like "The number you have dialed is a long distance number ...". Anyway, I tested this with a friend, putting in every manner of call (long message, short message, no message, and combinations in sequence). The bottom line: the machine screws up if a hangup occurs *before* the outgoing message completes. Solution: I bought an el-cheapo machine (single micro-cassette), but it serves perfectly (remote answer, excellent response, hangups or otherwise). Note: a friend explained that the VOX (voice activated control) circuits on these machines are their key features. I suppose my former machine (sorry, I even forgot the name, but it was made in Italy) had a lousy one and my current el-cheapo Korean machine has a good one. You might check yours. I can give you the name of the el-cheapo, if you like. (Again, I've forgotten it. I decided to shop by telling the clerk what *features* I need, not the *brand name*, and it worked! But I have a non-household name product.)
AI.CLIVE@mcc.com (Clive Dawson) (10/11/89)
John-
Regarding my answering machine problems dealing with hang-ups,
thanks for the great advice! It turns out that my exchange is,
indeed, served by a DMS-100 switch. I called the phone company
and asked to speak to somebody at my CO. The conversation went
something like this:
SWB: Fairfax. Can I help you?
Me: Can I speak to a technician? I have a question about
the DMS-100 switch.
SWB: Are you a vendor?
Me: No, I'm a customer.
SWB: A customer? How did you get this number?!
Me: I called the Southwestern Bell and they connected me.
SWB: Well, you should have called the repair number.
Me: Yes, but then it would have taken two extra days to
finally get the person I need to talk to. I just have
a question.
SWB: Well, hold on then.
...
SWB: This is -----, can I help you?
Me: Yes, I have an answering machine which can't detect
when the other person hangs up. I think it might have
something to do with the CPC signal.
SWB: What's your phone number?
I give it to him, and hear him typing something on
a keyboard. Thirty seconds later:
SWB: OK, I've set an option on your line which will fix the
problem.
Me: Thanks a lot!!
SWB: Sure. Any time.
Sure enough, the problem is fixed. Rarely have I had such a
satisfying encounter with the phone company!! (I love it when
I can successfully bypass the first n layers of bureaucracy, and
talk to the person who can actually DO something!)
Clivermadison@euler.berkeley.edu (Linc Madison) (10/12/89)
In a reply to the question about answering machines detecting hang-ups, someone mentioned the CO switch providing "reliable CPC." What is CPC? Linc Madison (If you think this question is of general interest, feel free to post it.)
FLINTON@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Fred E.J. Linton) (10/13/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0435m03@vector.dallas.tx.us>, AI.CLIVE@mcc.com (Clive Dawson) writes, in part: > Questions: > ... or do they simply detect silence on the > line in order to decide whether/when to start/stop recording? That's certainly what my non-Panasonic does. > -- Is it correct for the off-hook warning stuff to be triggered > under these circumstances? Is this the norm? In my area (New Haven, (203)), it's your not being connected yet to anything AND not having dialed another digit for 15 or 20 seconds that triggers an off-hook/please-finish-dialing-or-hang-up-and-dial-again message. > -- Do other people have this problem? I used to have a machine that spewed a message for twenty seconds and then listened for thirty-five (and then unceremoniously hung up). This often brought in about ten seconds of dial tone (generated after the caller hung up immediately upon hearing my machine), ten seconds of silence, and the first few seconds of the off-hook warning. > I suppose the obvious thing to try is to reduce the length of my > outgoing message. Yes -- I currently have a fifteen second outgoing message, and my machine hangs up after six seconds of EITHER silence OR dialtone. Usually my hang-ups hear enough of my message that I get only the six seconds of silence; rarely, though, they hang up so quickly that the silence period times out during my message or just barely after it ends; then six seconds of dialtone get recorded before my machine senses it's only dialtone and hangs up. -- Fred ARPA/Internet: FLINTON@eagle.Wesleyan.EDU Bitnet: FLINTON%eagle@WESLEYAN[.bitnet] from uucp: ...!{research, mtune!arpa, uunet}!eagle.Wesleyan.EDU!FLinton on ATT-Mail: !fejlinton Tel.: + 1 203 776 2210 (home) OR + 1 203 347 9411 xt 2249 (work) Telex: <USA> + 15 122 3413 FEJLINTON CompuServe ID: 72037,1054 F-Net (guest): linton@inria.inria.fr OR ...!inria.inria.fr!linton
gabe@sirius.ctr.columbia.edu (Gabe Wiener) (10/14/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0445m08@vector.dallas.tx.us> rmadison@euler.berkeley. edu (Linc Madison) writes: >In a reply to the question about answering machines detecting hang-ups, >someone mentioned the CO switch providing "reliable CPC." What is CPC? I believe that CPC is "Calling Party Control," an electrical signal of some sort that the CO can send down the line to signal when the caller has hung up. The benefits of this are obvious. An answering machine can now tell immediately when a person has hung up, rather than having to listen for 10 seconds of silence. Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ. "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings gabe@ctr.columbia.edu to be seriously considered as a means of gmw1@cunixd.cc.columbia.edu communication. The device is inherently of 72355.1226@compuserve.com no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877