ben@sybase.com (ben ullrich) (11/10/89)
As you discovered, 1+ dialing does not necessarily indicate a toll
call... it merely indcates a call to a different npa. Some of the
time, these calls are toll, and may be handed off to a long distance
company for handling. With neighboring area codes, it may also very
often result in no charge, such as what will happen to me in 91 when
415 splits off into 510 and 415: my office, a free call, will be 11
digits from my home phone!
In light of the reality of what 1+ dialing means, I'd venture to say
you erred in your supposition upon which your repeater's programming
was based.
Tell us this: If another area code were across the street from you
(thus making it a free call), how would you suggest the numbering
scheme work for this?
How does a scheme based on 1+ == toll deal with 800 calls?
1+ aside, there are, at least in my area, several prefixes that are
toll (zone) calls within the npa. The only way to catch these, as
well as *allow* free 1+ calls is, you guessed it, toll tables.
ben ullrich consider my words disclaimed,if you consider them at all
sybase, inc., emeryville, ca "When you deal with human beings, a certain
+1 (415) 596 - 3500 amount of nonsense is inevitable." - mike trout
ben@sybase.com {pyramid,pacbell,sun,lll-tis}!sybase!bentel@cdsdb1.att.com (Thomas E Lowe) (11/11/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0501m06@vector.dallas.tx.us> ben@sybase.com (ben ullrich) writes: >Tell us this: If another area code were across the street from you >(thus making it a free call), how would you suggest the numbering >scheme work for this? In Central New Jersey, along the 201/609 split, there are several exchanges that are local calls to each other, even though in different area codes. In the phone book under the Local Calling section is the the following paragraph: "From telephones designated 597, 693, 698, 971, or 978, it is not necessary to dial the Area Code 201 on calls to the Toms River Exchange Area 240, 244, 255, 269, 270, 286, 341, 349, 505, 506, or 929 telephones." The first 5 (597,etc) are in 609, and the last 11 (240, etc) are in 201. Each of these exchanges exists only in either 609 or 201 area codes. All of these exchanges are local to each other. From other exchanges not listed above, you must dial the 201 or 609. Tom Lowe tel@cdsdb1.ATT.COM attmail!tlowe 201-949-0428 AT&T Bell Laboratories, Room 2E-637A Crawfords Corner Road, Holmdel, NJ 07733 (R) UNIX is a registered trademark of AT&T (keep them lawyers happy!!)
cmoore@brl.mil (VLD/VMB) (11/13/89)
However, recent notes in Telecom Digest say that the area code is required for local calls FROM 201 TO other area codes, to help with code con- servation while awaiting the 201/908 split. The example you sent (from Barnegat to Toms River) was FROM 609 TO 201.
stank@cbnewsl.ATT.COM (Stan Krieger) (11/14/89)
> In Central New Jersey, along the 201/609 split, there are several > exchanges that are local calls to each other, even though in different > area codes. In the phone book under the Local Calling section is the > the following paragraph: > "From telephones designated 597, 693, 698, 971, or 978, it is not > necessary to dial the Area Code 201 on calls to the Toms River > Exchange Area 240, 244, 255, 269, 270, 286, 341, 349, 505, 506, or 929 > telephones." > The first 5 (597,etc) are in 609, and the last 11 (240, etc) are in > 201. Each of these exchanges exists only in either 609 or 201 area > codes. All of these exchanges are local to each other. From another NJ resident, I'm curious about a few things concerning this- 1. Since the 201/609 boundary is one of the two LATA boundaries in NJ, how are local calls in the Toms River area across 201/609 handled by NJ Bell and the long distance companies? 2. In the press releases concerning the 201/908 split (as an aside, the Toms River area will be going to 908), it sounded like that, for further conservation of central office codes, NJ Bell was going to be getting rid of those cases where a call across area codes didn't require an area code (i.e., a central office in one area preventing its being used in another area). Did I read the press releases right, and will it affect the central office codes mentioned here? Another interesting point about telephony in NJ. In conjunction with implementing a statewide 911, and the corresponding need to know the municipality that a phone number is located in, calls within towns will now all be treated as local calls, even if the calls between the two central offices are normally toll calls (e.g., a call from the portion of Randolph Township served by a Morristown exchange to someone served by a Dover exchange). As I understand it though, this cannot be implemented without raising rates about $1.50 a month in those towns in the pine barrens that straddle the 201/609 boundary, because of the need to get long distance companies involved. Does anyone have more info on this? Stan Krieger Summit, NJ ...!att!attunix!smk
johnl@esegue.segue.boston.ma.us (John R. Levine) (11/15/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0509m10@vector.dallas.tx.us> cmoore@brl.mil writes: >However, recent notes in Telecom Digest say that the area code is >required for local calls FROM 201 TO other area codes, to help with >code conservation while awaiting the 201/908 split. The example you >sent (from Barnegat to Toms River) was FROM 609 TO 201. Nope, you never need an area code to make a local call in NJ. NJ Bell seems to feel very strongly like that. I grew up in Princeton, which is just south of the 609/201 split and is a local call to and from several exchanges in 201. In olden days Princeton had two prefixes, 921 and 924. (In the 1950s they had four-digit phone numbers and when they went to seven digits they assigned 0000-4999 to WA-4 and 5000-9999 to WA-1.) Then when Princeton University became dialable they assigned it 452. Then when they made student rooms dialable they added 734. Then 683, and now with a zillion new office parks near Princeton all with dialable prefixes they've added about six more prefixes none anything like any of the other prefixes. 609 is actually a very small NPA so they could have assigned 922, 923, 925, and 926 but they didn't. It took me a while to realize that the prefixes they used were some of the few remaining unused in 201, so they could keep seven-digit local dialing. I bet when they split 201/908 you'll be able to dial across that boundary with seven digits, too. Here in Massachusetts, though, if you live in Lexington and want to make a free local call to neighboring Concord you dial 1+508+NXX-XXXX. I suppose it'd have come to that sooner or later anyway, but it's interesting to see the differences among the former BOCs. John R. Levine, Segue Software, POB 349, Cambridge MA 02238, +1 617 864 9650 johnl@esegue.segue.boston.ma.us, {ima|lotus|spdcc}!esegue!johnl "Now, we are all jelly doughnuts."
johnl@esegue.segue.boston.ma.us (John R. Levine) (11/15/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0509m10@vector.dallas.tx.us> cmoore@brl.mil (VLD/VMB) writes: >However, recent notes in Telecom Digest say that the area code is >required for local calls FROM 201 TO other area codes, to help with >code conservation while awaiting the 201/908 split. The example you >sent (from Barnegat to Toms River) was FROM 609 TO 201. Nope, you never need an area code to make a local call in NJ. NJ Bell seems to feel very strongly like that. I grew up in Princeton, which is just south of the 609/201 split and is a local call to and from several exchanges in 201. In olden days Princeton had two prefixes, 921 and 924. (In the 1950s they had four-digit phone numbers and when they went to seven digits they assigned 0000-4999 to WA-4 and 5000-9999 to WA-1.) Then when Princeton University became dialable they assigned it 452. Then when they made student rooms dialable they added 734. Then 683, and now with a zillion new office parks near Princeton all with dialable prefixes they've added about six more prefixes none anything like any of the other prefixes. 609 is actually a very small NPA so they could have assigned 922, 923, 925, and 926 but they didn't. It took me a while to realize that the prefixes they used were some of the few remaining unused in 201, so they could keep seven-digit local dialing. I bet when they split 201/908 you'll be able to dial across that boundary with seven digits, too. Here in Massachusetts, though, if you live in Lexington and want to make a free local call to neighboring Concord you dial 1+508+NXX-XXXX. I suppose it'd have come to that sooner or later anyway, but it's interesting to see the differences among the former BOCs. John R. Levine, Segue Software, POB 349, Cambridge MA 02238, +1 617 864 9650 johnl@esegue.segue.boston.ma.us, {ima|lotus|spdcc}!esegue!johnl "Now, we are all jelly doughnuts."
ben@sybase.com (ben ullrich) (11/15/89)
> In article <telecom-v09i0501m06@vector.dallas.tx.us> ben@sybase.com > (ben ullrich) writes: > >Tell us this: If another area code were across the street from you > >(thus making it a free call), how would you suggest the numbering > >scheme work for this? > In Central New Jersey, along the 201/609 split, there are several > exchanges that are local calls to each other, even though in different > area codes. In the phone book under the Local Calling section is the > the following paragraph: > "From telephones designated 597, 693, 698, 971, or 978, it is not > necessary to dial the Area Code 201 on calls to the Toms River > Exchange Area 240, 244, 255, 269, 270, 286, 341, 349, 505, 506, or 929 > telephones." > From other exchanges not listed above, you must dial the 201 or 609. Yep, I imagined as such. I was wondering more how one would deal with this when the NPA's are so full they don't have the luxury of making certain exchanges unique across neighboring NPA's? I imagine that one would then be required to dial the whole 10 (or 11) digits. I don't know how often this would be necessary, i.e., is this sharing of prefixes across neighboring NPA's very sacred, or just a luxury of having enough exchanges to spare? Thanks for your input, Thomas! ben ullrich consider my words disclaimed,if you consider them at all sybase, inc., emeryville, ca "When you deal with human beings, a certain +1 (415) 596 - 3500 amount of nonsense is inevitable." - mike trout ben@sybase.com {pyramid,pacbell,sun,lll-tis}!sybase!ben [Moderator's Note: It used to be quite common that prefixes were never duplicated in neighboring area codes; i.e. nothing in northern Indiana was ever used in Chicago or Illinois suburbs, etc. 312-396 was never used here since folks in Antioch, IL had seven digit dialing to their neighbors in North Antioch, WI (414-396). Illinois Bell quit worrying about it years ago as the reserve of prefixes ran short. PT]
john@zygot.ati.com (John Higdon) (11/16/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0511m09@vector.dallas.tx.us>, johnl@esegue.segue. boston.ma.us (John R. Levine) writes: > Nope, you never need an area code to make a local call in NJ. NJ Bell > seems to feel very strongly like that. Up until the early 1980's, it was not necessary to dial anything other than the seven-digit number for any call within the Bay Area. This applied to local and toll alike. This was the case even though the southern end of the bay had been 408 since around 1960. Then suddenly, someone decided that they could no longer have non-duplicating prefixes within the metro area. We were all notified that beginning on a certain date, it would be necessary to dial the area code if different. This meant that on that date, a Mountain View caller had to dial 408+7D for a local call to San Jose, or even down the street to Sunnyvale. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@zygot.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o !
levin@bbn.com (Joel B. Levin) (11/18/89)
>Here in Massachusetts, though, if you live in Lexington and want to >make a free local call to neighboring Concord you dial 1+508+NXX-XXXX. >I suppose it'd have come to that sooner or later anyway, but it's >interesting to see the differences among the former BOCs. On the other hand, in the same New England Telephone Company area I can sit in my New Hampshire house (in 603-880) and dial Tyngsborough, Mass. (was 617-649 and is now 508-649) with seven digits. When I lived in the 617-649 I could dial all the Nashua NH telephones (including 603-880 and several others) the same way. This is across NPA, LATA, and state boundaries. Nets: levin@bbn.com | or {...}!bbn!levin | POTS: (617)873-3463 |
dave@uunet.uu.net (Dave Levenson) (11/18/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0511m09@vector.dallas.tx.us>, johnl@esegue.segue. boston.ma.us (John R. Levine) writes: > Nope, you never need an area code to make a local call in NJ. NJ Bell > seems to feel very strongly like that. I grew up in Princeton... > .... I bet when they split 201/908 you'll be able to dial across > that boundary with seven digits, too. That's not what they're telling us. Here in Warren Township, we will be in 908. The next C.O. north of us will remain 201. We are told by the Newark Star-Ledger (and _they_ know it all, don't they?) that we'll be dialing local calls to nearby points on the other side of the line with eleven digits. The line between the Millington CO (201-647, 201-580) and Bernardsville CO (201-204, 201-221 and others) will, apparently, become part of the border line between 908 and 201. The folks in the Southern half of the town of Basking Ridge have 647 or 580 numbers today. They'll apparently be using eleven digit dialing to call their neighbors in the same town who have 221 or 766 numbers. If they didn't do this, the area-code split wouldn't be nearly as useful in saving numbers, as they'd have protected prefixes all along both sides of the entire border. (But then, the Star-Ledger has been wrong before... Does anybody know for sure?) Dave Levenson Voice: (201) 647 0900 Westmark, Inc. Internet: dave@westmark.uu.net Warren, NJ, USA UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave [The Man in the Mooney] AT&T Mail: !westmark!dave
rmadison@euler.berkeley.edu (Linc Madison) (11/20/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0512m09@vector.dallas.tx.us> you write: >[Moderator's Note: It used to be quite common that prefixes were never >duplicated in neighboring area codes; i.e. nothing in northern Indiana >was ever used in Chicago or Illinois suburbs, etc. 312-396 was never >used here since folks in Antioch, IL had seven digit dialing to their >neighbors in North Antioch, WI (414-396). Illinois Bell quit worrying >about it years ago as the reserve of prefixes ran short. PT] A friend of mine who lived in Chicago about five years ago (+/- ??) had a number in 312 that duplicated the number of a popular resort hotel in 414 (Chicago and Wisconsin, respectively). He frequently got phone calls from people asking to make reservations. My friend patiently explained that the number they wanted was in 414. One guy was so insistent, though, that he had the right number, that my friend finally gave in and let him give the info, told him he had a confirmed reservation, and let him take his chances when he arrived at the hotel. Of course, being secondhand, the above anecdote should be treated as little more than urban lore. Linc Madison = rmadison@euler.berkeley.edu
Maynard) (11/22/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0524m04@vector.dallas.tx.us> rmadison@euler. berkeley.edu (Linc Madison) writes: >A friend of mine who lived in Chicago about five years ago (+/- ??) >had a number in 312 that duplicated the number of a popular resort >hotel in 414 (Chicago and Wisconsin, respectively). He frequently got >phone calls from people asking to make reservations. Sounds like an expoerience I had several years ago. My work phone was 978-2xxx. A medium-sized engineering company was 782-xxx0. I'd get calls all the time asking for the engineering company, and each time, I'd patiently explain that they didn't need to dial 9 before making an outside call from the phone they were using. Some folks couldn't understand how I knew that. One person was adamant about the need to dial 9 first, and it took me 10 minutes - on his third call - to convince him otherwise. I sure was glad when the engineering company moved... Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can jay@splut.conmicro.com (eieio)| adequately be explained by stupidity. {attctc,bellcore}!texbell!splut!jay +---------------------------------------- _free press_, n.: 100 men imposing their prejudices on 100 million.
dik@curing.cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) (11/25/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0530m06@vector.dallas.tx.us> Jay "you ignorant splut!" Maynard <jay@splut.conmicro.com> writes: > My work phone was 978-2xxx. A medium-sized engineering company was > 782-xxx0. I'd get calls all the time asking for the engineering > company, and each time, I'd patiently explain that they didn't need to > dial 9 before making an outside call from the phone they were using. > Some folks couldn't understand how I knew that. One person was > adamant about the need to dial 9 first, and it took me 10 minutes - on > his third call - to convince him otherwise. A very good reason for the system as used in a lot of countries: if you want to dial outward, you first dial the digit to get the outward line and then have to wait for dial-tone again. In that case you immediately know whether you have to dial an additional leading digit or not. BTW this explains also why there is no confusion in Australia where the general alarm number is 000, the code to get to the US is 0011 and the digit to get an outside line is 0. In a previous digest there was a question whether it would be confusing that to dial to the US from a phone that requires a leading digit for an outside number you started with 000. The answer is: no; you dial 0 wait for dial tone and follow with 00... Also in a number of countries you have to wait for dial tone after dialling an area code, as in the Netherlands. Autodiallers are not allowed here unless they are able to do that. dik t. winter, cwi, amsterdam, nederland INTERNET : dik@cwi.nl BITNET/EARN: dik@mcvax