[comp.dcom.telecom] Two Lines From a Twisted Three?

owens%tartarus@gargoyle.uchicago.edu (Christopher Owens) (11/30/89)

I want to bring a second phone line into my apartment, which is in a
1920's highrise in Chicago.  There is no problem getting the second
pair to the terminal block across the hall from my apartment, but
there the fun starts.  Running from the terminal block to my apartment
is an old-style twisted-3 -- apparently once upon a time subscriber
lines required three conductors: tip, ring, and a third line that
played some role in kicking the switch gear into action. (Was sleeve
extended all the way to customer premises?)

 From the junction box to my apartment is only a run of about 25 feet,
but the twisted three shares a conduit with two other twisted threes
serving two other apartments.  The installer said the cable was stiff
and brittle, and that there was no way to pull new cable without
pulling new cable for all three apartments at once.  This is estimated
to be about $300 in labor.  I don't feel like paying to upgrade
service to apartments I don't inhabit, and the building doesn't want
to pay either.

Anybody have a suggestion?  One thought was to use the extra wire of
my three with an extra wire taken from somewhere, but there really is
nowhere.  I can't get to any of the other wires from my apartment.

I've been told there is a way to use some kind of bridge circuit at
each end of a 3-conductor wire to enable two phone lines to be run
over the wire.  Does anyone know about this. If they exist, where can
one get them?  This didn't sound like any kind of fancy multiplexing,
just a bridged circuit of some kind. Would it leave me with a clean
line and full bandwidth?  How would it interact with a high-speed
modem on one of the lines?

Thank you.

John Higdon <john@zygot.ati.com> (12/03/89)

In article <telecom-v09i0542m07@chinacat.lonestar.org>, owens%tartarus@
gargoyle.uchicago.edu (Christopher Owens) writes:

> I've been told there is a way to use some kind of bridge circuit at
> each end of a 3-conductor wire to enable two phone lines to be run
> over the wire.  Does anyone know about this. If they exist, where can
> one get them?  This didn't sound like any kind of fancy multiplexing,
> just a bridged circuit of some kind. Would it leave me with a clean
> line and full bandwidth?  How would it interact with a high-speed
> modem on one of the lines?

My earlier rantings on the subject notwithstanding, probably the most
practical and reliable way to get your second service would be to use a
subscriber carrier device. There is a way to phantom a third service
from two pairs, but that doesn't apply here.

Whatever you do, NEVER pick conductors from two different cables to
serve as your "pair". This, in effect, causes your line to look like an
unbalance circuit in each of the cables you have selected and there
will be major crosstalk. In other words, don't take the third conductor
from, say your existing service and your neighbor's service, to supply
the run for your second line. Everyone will end up talking to everyone
else.

        John Higdon         |   P. O. Box 7648   |   +1 408 723 1395
    john@zygot.ati.com      | San Jose, CA 95150 |       M o o !

toddi@gtisqr.UUCP (Todd Inch) (12/07/89)

In article <telecom-v09i0542m07@chinacat.lonestar.org> 
  owens%tartarus@gargoyle.uchicago.edu (Christopher Owens) writes:

>I want to bring a second phone line into my apartment . . .

>Running from the terminal block to my apartment is an old-style 
>twisted-3 (conductor cable) . . . 

>From the junction box to my apartment is only a run of about 25 feet,
>but the twisted three shares a conduit with two other twisted threes
>serving two other apartments.  

>One thought was to use the extra wire of my three with an extra wire 
>taken from somewhere . . .

I found out the hard way how important the "twisted pair" is:

I once wired a building for phone using two "twisted-3" cables.  My
thought was that I wanted a total of six conductors, for up to three
lines.  What I really needed was a 3-pair equivalent, but at the time
I didn't understand the "pair" concept.  So I used one conductor from
each cable to form the three pairs: {red A & red B}, {white A & white
B}, {black A & black B}, where A is one twisted-3 cable and B is the
other.

This worked fine for the first line, but I had all the six conductor
jacks installed before I connected the second line.  That's when the
trouble started.

You could hear the conversations on the second line almost as well as
you could hear your own conversation on the first, and vice-versa.

Apparently, the twisting of the pair effectively sheilds it from the
electromagnetic radiation of the other pairs.  By not using any of the
existing two twisted pairs but instead using separate twists for one
wire of each line, I had created the worst-case condition, effectively
creating a transformer which coupled the two lines together.

The problem was especially bad because, at the time, my parents were
going through a divorce and each had a separate phone line and they
were sorta in separate buildings which shared some wiring.  They
didn't appreciate being forced to listen to each others'
conversations.

Anyway, if you try to use the spare conductor from your cable and the
spare conductor from someone else's, you may end up with a three-way
party line.

It might work for only 25 feet, but I wouldn't bet on it.

>I've been told there is a way to use some kind of bridge circuit at
>each end of a 3-conductor wire to enable two phone lines to be run
>over the wire.  

I once had a device on the outside of my house that allowed two
different lines to somehow use the same pair to the phone company.
Telco installed it and there must have been a device at the CO to run
it.  This was mentioned in passing here in the digest about a month
ago.  I'm not sure if you could convince telco to install one or not.

 
Todd Inch, System Manager, Global Technology, Mukilteo WA  (206) 742-9111
UUCP: {smart-host}!gtisqr!toddi    ARPA: gtisqr!toddi@beaver.cs.washington.edu
"You are the booger in the nose of my life." - My wife, to me. (Jokingly?)
Disclaimer:  My boss will read this while checking up on me and will disagree.