[comp.dcom.telecom] Phone Solicitations

wnp@relay.eu.net (wolf paul) (12/03/89)

In TELECOM Digest 9/541, Bill Parrish <bparrish@hprnd.hp.com>
discusses Phone Solicitation in a hospital labor room and goes on to
comment:

> My feeling is that this kind of thing is getting out-of-hand and will
> have to be dealt with just because of the volume of junk calls.  If a
> woman in labor can't even be free of this kind of peskiness, something
> legislative is probably called for.

The reason she can't be free from this kind of peskiness is the way
this industry works. A friend of mine who complained at being called
at an inopportune time and wanted to be excempted from future calls
was told that they just call numbers in sequence, without even knowing
in advance what type of subscriber is on the other end -- a residence,
a business, a hospital, etc.

And that is the thing which needs to be outlawed -- it should be
prohibited to place calls to random numbers. If the direct marketers
want to use the telephone, let them research their prospective
customers, and call only numbers where they know at least the name of
the private individual (if that's their target) or business (another
legitimate target) who happens to be the subscriber.

Hospital patient lines are not legitimate targets, nor are payphones
in high schools, etc. -- there are certain groups of people, and
certain environments, which should be protected from this nuisance.

And it should be possible to get one's name struck from the lists of
phone subscribers thus compiled.

But I suspect that this is all to idealistic, and nothing will happen
to change the way the marketing industry works.


Wolf N. Paul, International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis
Schloss Laxenburg, Schlossplatz 1, A - 2361 Laxenburg, Austria, Europe
Phone: (Office) [43] (2236) 71521-465      (Home) [43] (1) 22-46-913
UUCP:   uunet!mcvax!tuvie!iiasa!wnp      DOMAIN: iiasa!wnp@tuvie.at

wnp@relay.eu.net> (12/03/89)

In TELECOM Digest 9/541, Bill Parrish <bparrish@hprnd.hp.com>
discusses Phone Solicitation in a hospital labor room and goes on to
comment:

> My feeling is that this kind of thing is getting out-of-hand and will
> have to be dealt with just because of the volume of junk calls.  If a
> woman in labor can't even be free of this kind of peskiness, something
> legislative is probably called for.

The reason she can't be free from this kind of peskiness is the way
this industry works. A friend of mine who complained at being called
at an inopportune time and wanted to be excempted from future calls
was told that they just call numbers in sequence, without even knowing
in advance what type of subscriber is on the other end -- a residence,
a business, a hospital, etc.

And that is the thing which needs to be outlawed -- it should be
prohibited to place calls to random numbers. If the direct marketers
want to use the telephone, let them research their prospective
customers, and call only numbers where they know at least the name of
the private individual (if that's their target) or business (another
legitimate target) who happens to be the subscriber.

Hospital patient lines are not legitimate targets, nor are payphones
in high schools, etc. -- there are certain groups of people, and
certain environments, which should be protected from this nuisance.

And it should be possible to get one's name struck from the lists of
phone subscribers thus compiled.

But I suspect that this is all to idealistic, and nothing will happen
to change the way the marketing industry works.

 
Wolf N. Paul, International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis
Schloss Laxenburg, Schlossplatz 1, A - 2361 Laxenburg, Austria, Europe
Phone: (Office) [43] (2236) 71521-465      (Home) [43] (1) 22-46-913
UUCP:   uunet!mcvax!tuvie!iiasa!wnp      DOMAIN: iiasa!wnp@tuvie.at

Ge' Weijers <ge@sci.kun.nl> (12/07/89)

iiasa!wnp@relay.eu.net (wolf paul) writes:

>And that is the thing which needs to be outlawed -- it should be
>prohibited to place calls to random numbers. If the direct marketers
>want to use the telephone, let them research their prospective
>customers, and call only numbers where they know at least the name of
>the private individual (if that's their target) or business (another
>legitimate target) who happens to be the subscriber.

It would be enough if public opinion would consider those who use
unsolicited phone calls to be unreliable. Never deal with companies
that use phones in such an intrusive way. Let them go broke. Don't
give the courts something extra to do.

A nice technical solution: put a 'what-a-jerk' button on every phone,
by using the # or * keys. If you're annoyed push it.  If a telephone
subscriber gets too many black marks he is disconnected, except for
emergency numbers.

Ge' Weijers
Ge' Weijers                                    Internet/UUCP: ge@cs.kun.nl
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science,   (uunet.uu.net!cs.kun.nl!ge)
University of Nijmegen, Toernooiveld 1         
6525 ED Nijmegen, the Netherlands              tel. +3180612483 (UTC-2)

Steven_Tenney <10e@hpcvia.cv.hp.com> (12/07/89)

Oregon is soon to pass a law where a subscriber can have a symbol
placed by their name in phone books indicating that they do not want
any telemarketers/solicitors calling.  If telemarketers do call the
particular residence anyway (whether it's a mistake or not) the could
be fined heavily (up to $25,000).  Needless to say this will kill the
computerized random calling technique in Oregon.

briang@bari.sun.com (Brian Gordon) (12/09/89)

In article <1902@accuvax.nwu.edu> 10e@hpcvia.cv.hp.com (Steven_Tenney) writes:
>X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 9, Issue 557, message 5 of 11

>Oregon is soon to pass a law where a subscriber can have a symbol
>placed by their name in phone books indicating that they do not want
>any telemarketers/solicitors calling.  If telemarketers do call the
>particular residence anyway (whether it's a mistake or not) the could
>be fined heavily (up to $25,000).  Needless to say this will kill the
>computerized random calling technique in Oregon.

 ... but only FROM telephones in Oregon.  Callers in other states
won't be affected by an Oregon law, and probably won't even have
access to the "symbols" even if they wanted to comply.

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John Higdon <john@zygot.ati.com> (12/10/89)

In article <1902@accuvax.nwu.edu> 10e@hpcvia.cv.hp.com (Steven_Tenney) writes:
>X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 9, Issue 557, message 5 of 11

>Oregon is soon to pass a law where a subscriber can have a symbol
>placed by their name in phone books indicating that they do not want
>any telemarketers/solicitors calling.  If telemarketers do call the
>particular residence anyway (whether it's a mistake or not) the could
>be fined heavily (up to $25,000).  Needless to say this will kill the
>computerized random calling technique in Oregon.

Oh, dream on! Do you think for one microsecond that ALL or even most
telemarketing directed at Oregonians originates inside Oregon? No
offense, but I seriously doubt that major telemarketers set up boiler
rooms in Oregon itself.

And how will the phone police *prove* (remember proof? it's required
in court) that any particular calls originated within the state
boundaries of Oregon? In California, junk callers are required to get
the victim's permission before sicking a machine on them. When I tried
to turn one in that didn't, they said, "Oh, we make all of our
telemarketing calls from Wisconsin." I knew they were lying, but it
was EOD (end of discussion).

I predict the new law will have negligible effect on the computerized
random calling technique in Oregon.
 
        John Higdon         |   P. O. Box 7648   |   +1 408 723 1395
    john@zygot.ati.com      | San Jose, CA 95150 |       M o o !