patrick@cs.cornell.edu (Pat Stephenson) (11/27/89)
I'm thinking of taking a cordless phone from the US to my parents in Dublin, Ireland. I have two questions which Digest readers may be able to answer: 1) Will it work (ie are signal levels compatible) 2) How do I connect it? My parents do not have modular sockets. The phone line is terminated in a black box about 3" by 3" by 1". The cord from the P&T supplied telephone terminates in what looks like an oversize headphone jack that is plugged into this black box. It appears to carry 4 connections (three signals and ground, I presume). (I'm pretty sure that the Irish phone system will use the same signal levels, etc. as the British one.) Any advice or hints that people have to offer would be appreciated. Pat Stephenson PS Yes, I realise that I'll need a 220->110 transformer.
lars@salt.acc.com (Lars J Poulsen) (11/29/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0532m03a@chinacat.lonestar.org> pat@cs.cornell.edu writes: >I'm thinking of taking a cordless phone from the US to my parents in >Dublin, Ireland. > 1) Will it work (ie are signal levels compatible) Undoubtedly. Telephone systems are pretty universal; actually they may be the most standard technology around. The biggest question is pulse dialing: - UK uses a different dial layout from the rest of Europe and the USA. I would expect Ireland to follow England in this respect. In the US, a "1" is a single pulse, and "0" is ten pulses. In the UK, a "0" is a single pulse, "1" is two pulses, and so on, until "9" which is ten pulses. To find out the status of this, ask your parents to look at the dials on rotary telephones. If "0" is to the left of "9" rather than to the right of "1", then dialling in pulse mode may require translation of the keys. This is usually not convenient for older people. - Tone dialing is the same. But Ireland may not have universal tone service. (UK has a large percentage of pulse-only lines; would expect Ireland to be in the same boat.) > 2) How do I connect it? My parents do not have modular sockets. The >phone line is terminated in a black box about 3" by 3" by 1". The >cord from the P&T supplied telephone terminates in what looks like an >oversize headphone jack that is plugged into this black box. It >appears to carry 4 connections (three signals and ground, I presume). >(I'm pretty sure that the Irish phone system will use the same signal >levels, etc. as the British one.) Probably the lines are two-wire service. The third non-ground is probably only used on feature-rich business lines. What I have done in a similar situation a few years ago was to buy a modular phone extension cord (cord and coupler) and buy a <foreign country of your choice> extension cord; then cut both in the middle and splice with a soldering iron and electrician's tape. Wherever the phone company has a monopoly on Customer premise Equipment, this is the only simple and legal way to get a connector. >Any advice or hints that people have to offer would be appreciated. >PS Yes, I realise that I'll need a 220->110 transformer. I would try to discourage you from doing this. A cordless phone includes two radio transmitters, and all European PTTs take a VERY dim view of unlicensed broadcasting. If a cop picks your parents' phone up on a scanner and tracks them down, they would be liable to a fine of about $2500 to $5000 and forfeiture of the equipment. Plus the phone company might decide to terminate their service. Does the Irish PTT offer cordless phones ? If so, there would be much less danger of being caught. / Lars Poulsen <lars@salt.acc.com> (800) 222-7308 or (805) 963-9431 ext 358 ACC Customer Service Affiliation stated for identification only My employer probably would not agree if he knew what I said !!
weston@ayov27.enet.dec.com (John Weston) (11/30/89)
Referring to item in Digest, Vol 9 issue 535 Response to item by: Lars J Poulsen <lars@salt.acc.com> >>I'm thinking of taking a cordless phone from the US to my parents in >>Dublin, Ireland. >> 1) Will it work (ie are signal levels compatible) >Undoubtedly. Telephone systems are pretty universal; actually they may >be the most standard technology around. The biggest question is pulse >dialling: I must disagree. There are differences in signal level and telephone performance parameters between the UK/Ireland telephone networks and those in the USA. Typically US phones will appear to have a low level. You may also find the ringer doesn't work. > - UK uses a different dial layout from the rest of Europe and the USA. > I would expect Ireland to follow England in this respect. > In the US, a "1" is a single pulse, and "0" is ten pulses. > In the UK, a "0" is a single pulse, "1" is two pulses, > and so on, until "9" which is ten pulses. To find out the status > of this, ask your parents to look at the dials on rotary telephones. > If "0" is to the left of "9" rather than to the right of "1", > then dialling in pulse mode may require translation of the keys. > This is usually not convenient for older people. Again, I must disagree. Have you checked your facts? The UK/Ireland pulse dial is identical to the USA and to the "rest of Europe" , with 1 pulse for 1 through to 10 pulses for 0, arranged 1 through 0. It has always been that way, having been based on the Strowger system. The only common systems where there is a mismatch between number and pulses is where the pulses are regenerated, as in countries having long subscriber loops. In these, 1 pulse will cause the regenerator to step in 1 and output 10 pulses, 2 outputs 9, etc. Think of it as an 11 position uniselector. In these systems, the dial appears backward. > - Tone dialling is the same. But Ireland may not have universal tone > service. (UK has a large percentage of pulse-only lines; would > expect Ireland to be in the same boat.) Here, I do agree. There was to be a different tone system but, thanks to international standards work, this was changed, before it hit the market, to the Bell system. Also, due to the installed base of pulse based systems that have still some life left, you will not find the same proportion of tone dialling installations as in the USA. However, it is coming up fast, in both countries. >> 2) How do I connect it? My parents do not have modular sockets. The >>phone line is terminated in a black box about 3" by 3" by 1". The >>cord from the P&T supplied telephone terminates in what looks like an >>oversize headphone jack that is plugged into this black box. It >>appears to carry 4 connections (three signals and ground, I presume). >>(I'm pretty sure that the Irish phone system will use the same signal >>levels, etc. as the British one.) >Probably the lines are two-wire service. The third non-ground is >probably only used on feature-rich business lines. What I have done in >a similar situation a few years ago was to buy a modular phone >extension cord (cord and coupler) and buy a <foreign country of your >choice> extension cord; then cut both in the middle and splice with a >soldering iron and electrician's tape. Wherever the phone company has >a monopoly on Customer premise Equipment, this is the only simple and >legal way to get a connector. The answer simply is don't. Even though the jack plug (4-way) is quite straightforward to wire, especially for a single phone, (No, there are no "feature rich business lines" using this jack - the other poles are used for simple ringer continuity) you will quite definitely incur the wrath of the P&T. They, or a designated test house, have to test and approve all instruments types as meeting the *country* standards before they can be connected to the country network. Such approved instruments can then be rented or purchased locally. Note also that, in many areas in Ireland, they have replaced the jack with what looks like the USA style modular jack. Don't think this allows the simple connection of US phones. Some will work, most don't. There are European wide standards (NETs) being introduced that are producing a European (at least EEC) wide telecommunications equipment environment. There was no goal in drafting these to harmonise Europe with the USA. We just take what is best and ignore the quirks :-) >>Any advice or hints that people have to offer would be appreciated. >>PS Yes, I realise that I'll need a 220->110 transformer. >I would try to discourage you from doing this. A cordless phone >includes two radio transmitters, and all European PTTs take a VERY dim >view of unlicensed broadcasting. If a cop picks your parents' phone up >on a scanner and tracks them down, they would be liable to a fine of >about $2500 to $5000 and forfeiture of the equipment. Plus the phone >company might decide to terminate their service. Does the Irish PTT >offer cordless phones ? If so, there would be much less danger of >being caught. This is sound advice. Do not try to use US equipment using inbuilt transmitters as they may interfere with local emergency services, etc.. Europe uses different frequency allocations, although there are moves towards harmonisation, at least within Europe. If you go ahead and your parents get caught, the authorities will throw the book at them. Also, the Customs authorities have been briefed to look out for, and confiscate unapproved electronic equipment when you try to import it. I believe locally available, approved devices can be obtained that can be serviced locally. They may be more expensive, due to the relative market size, but it isn't worth the hassle trying to save a few dollars. Why not phone Telecom Eireann in Dublin and ask them for their recommendations? John
pkh%computer-science.nottingham.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk (Kevin Hopkins) (11/30/89)
Lars J Poulsen <lars@salt.acc.com> wrote: -> Undoubtedly. Telephone systems are pretty universal; actually they may -> be the most standard technology around. The biggest question is pulse -> dialing: -> - UK uses a different dial layout from the rest of Europe and the USA. -> I would expect Ireland to follow England in this respect. -> In the US, a "1" is a single pulse, and "0" is ten pulses. -> In the UK, a "0" is a single pulse, "1" is two pulses, -> and so on, until "9" which is ten pulses. To find out the status -> of this, ask your parents to look at the dials on rotary telephones. -> If "0" is to the left of "9" rather than to the right of "1", -> then dialling in pulse mode may require translation of the keys. -> This is usually not convenient for older people. Incorrect. The UK uses the normal pulse dialling system: 1 = 1 pulse, 2 = 2 pulses, ..., 9 = 9 pulses and 0 = 10 pulses. The only countries which use a different system might be New Zealand and some of the Scandinavian countries, as discussed here a long time ago. Ireland and the rest of Europe uses the same pulse system as the UK. On the dial of my parents phone (which is pulse) the numbers run 1, 2, ..., 9, 0 anticlockwise from NNE and I thought this was the same on all phones that used the above pulse system. I don't understand the bit about the 0 being next to the 9 implies 1 = 2 pulses, ..., 9 = 10 pulses and 0 = 1 pulse. Surely that's the case if the dial runs 0, 1, 2, ..., 8, 9 ? -> - Tone dialing is the same. But Ireland may not have universal tone -> service. (UK has a large percentage of pulse-only lines; would -> expect Ireland to be in the same boat.) Ireland has one of the most widespread digital phone networks in the world. This is due to that fact that they have only moved to subscriber dialling in the whole of the country in the last 5 to 10 years. Up until then only the major urban areas (Dublin, maybe Cork, Limerick and Galway) had subscriber dialling, and I'm not sure if that included inter-urban area dialling. All other calls had to go via the operator. I suppose this means Ireland is in the weird position of having a phone system where all the rural areas have digital, as they have only recently had their exchanges installed, whilst some of the urban areas still only have a pulse capability because they were the first areas to have subscriber dialling and are using older exchanges. The UK is moving quickly over to tone dialling (System X digital exchanges) but all the new exchanges won't be in place until around 1995. Most, if not all, of the major trunk lines (between major towns and cities) are digital so a fair percentage of the UK calls are digital end to end. +--------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | K.Hopkins%cs.nott.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk | Kevin Hopkins, | | or ..!mcsun!ukc!nott-cs!K.Hopkins | Department of Computer Science,| | or in the UK: K.Hopkins@uk.ac.nott.cs | University of Nottingham, | | CHAT-LINE: +44 602 484848 x 3815 | Nottingham, ENGLAND, NG7 2RD | +--------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+
julian@bongo.uucp (julian macassey) (12/01/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0535m05@chinacat.lonestar.org>, lars@salt.acc.com (Lars J Poulsen) writes: > In article <telecom-v09i0532m03a@chinacat.lonestar.org> > pat@cs.cornell.edu writes: > >I'm thinking of taking a cordless phone from the US to my parents in > >Dublin, Ireland. > > 1) Will it work (ie are signal levels compatible) > Undoubtedly. Telephone systems are pretty universal; actually they may > be the most standard technology around. The biggest question is pulse > dialing: > - UK uses a different dial layout from the rest of Europe and the USA. > I would expect Ireland to follow England in this respect. > In the US, a "1" is a single pulse, and "0" is ten pulses. > In the UK, a "0" is a single pulse, "1" is two pulses, > and so on, until "9" which is ten pulses. To find out the status > of this, ask your parents to look at the dials on rotary telephones. > If "0" is to the left of "9" rather than to the right of "1", > then dialling in pulse mode may require translation of the keys. > This is usually not convenient for older people. > - Tone dialing is the same. But Ireland may not have universal tone > service. (UK has a large percentage of pulse-only lines; would > expect Ireland to be in the same boat.) > The UK has the same pulse plan as the US. Now Denmark has an added pulse and Sweden has the 0 where everyone else has the 1. But the UK is the same. As I recall, the Make/Break ratio is different. Looking at my 1982 copy of BS 6305. The specs for "Loop-disconnect signalling" are: 10 PPS + or - 1, 67% break + 5 or -4%. And finally: BS 6305 British Standard Specification for General requirements for apparatus for connection to the British Telecommunications public switched telephone network. 4.4.2 (d) Coding. For transmitted digits 1 to 9, the basic network loop shall be interrupted and restored for a number of times that equals the value of the digit sent. For digit 0, the number of times shall be 10. End of extract. So, yes, US pulse dials will work, so will Touch Tone dials (Called MF in the above spec - yes I know that means something else in the US). The transmit level of US phones can sometimes be a tad low. The rest of what Lars said was pretty much right on, including visits of the local if you transgress the transmitter laws. Chances of detection are not so high though. Best way to find the "right" wires is touch your phone on sundry wires until you get dial tone. First guess on old lines is the blue and white wires. On newer lines British Telecom is now using the US wiring color codes and white/bluestripe and blue/whitestripe should do the trick. I find the best gift is a Panasonic featurephone with dialer, LED and speakerphone. Pulse/tone switchable and known to work on UK lines. I have been told that Eire (Irish Republic) phone specs are the same as UK with the same equipment. Yours Julian Macassey, n6are julian@bongo ucla-an!denwa!bongo!julian n6are@k6iyk (Packet Radio) n6are.ampr.org [44.16.0.81] voice (213) 653-4495
Lars J Poulsen <lars@salt.acc.com> (12/02/89)
Lars J Poulsen <lars@salt.acc.com> wrote: >-> - UK uses a different dial layout from the rest of Europe and the USA. >-> I would expect Ireland to follow England in this respect. >-> In the US, a "1" is a single pulse, and "0" is ten pulses. >-> In the UK, a "0" is a single pulse, "1" is two pulses, In article <telecom-v09i0539m02@chinacat.lonestar.org> K.Hopkins%computer-science.nottingham.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk writes: >Incorrect. The UK uses the normal pulse dialling system: 1 = 1 pulse, >2 = 2 pulses, ..., 9 = 9 pulses and 0 = 10 pulses. The only countries >which use a different system might be New Zealand and some of the >Scandinavian countries, as discussed here a long time ago. Ireland >and the rest of Europe uses the same pulse system as the UK. I should have checked my archives (or let a UK person deal with this). I posted before my second cup of coffee... But in the back of my mind is a memory that the emergency number in England used to be "9-9-9", and I was told that this was because 9 was the longest pulse train; that using "0-0-0" as on the continent would not have worked because "0" was at the head of the dial, and false 0's were common due to bouncing hook switches. Guess I must be getting old and forgetful. > I don't understand the >bit about the 0 being next to the 9 implies 1 = 2 pulses, ..., 9 = 10 >pulses and 0 = 1 pulse. Surely that's the case if the dial runs 0, 1, >2, ..., 8, 9 ? In the fog of morning, it seems I expressed myself backwards. Thanks to Kevin Hopkins for a most informative article about Irish telephony. I really appreciated the bit about old exchanges in the cities and all-digital in the rural areas. And I can reinforce the warning about customs. Two years ago, my wife and I spent Christmas with my family in Copenhagen. The customs officials clearly had been instructed to be on the lookout for US electronics products (VCRs, telephone equipment etc). They had a hard time believing that a whole suitcase of presents would not involve any contraband and were almost ready to start opening gift packages when we showed them the itemized list and offered them to select one or two packages for verification. If they really want to throw the book at you, there are lots of ways: a. US bought equipment of course will not carry the type-approval of the local PTT. b. Cordless phones are radio transmitters and violate radio licensing rules. (Same for baby monitors). c. Electrical equipment purchased in the US typically will not carry the electrical safety approval stamp of the European country. (Though identical equipment sold in Europe may; in most cases, though, the US version will have deleted the 220V option). d. Most European countries have fairly high VAT (value-added sales tax) (on the order of magnitude of 20 %) and consumer electronics products are subject to luxury taxes (usually a wholesale level sales tax of another 10% - 25%) and sometimes an import duty of 10% or so on top of that. In those cases, taking such products into the country without paying these taxes is of course illegal. But technically, it usually works. When I first moved to the US, I kept my account with the Copenhagen phone company when they disconnected my phone line (because paying half of the monthly fee while not having any line for a year was cheaper than terminating service and opening new service a year later. They told me to keep the instrument until I got reconnected. So I took it with me, and impressed the heck out of my US friends with my Scandinavian designer telephone with the inverted keypad. Worked just fine. / Lars Poulsen <lars@salt.acc.com> (800) 222-7308 or (805) 963-9431 ext 358 ACC Customer Service Affiliation stated for identification only My employer probably would not agree if he knew what I said !!
john@design.axis.fr (John H.) (12/16/89)
In article <telecom-v09i0535m05@chinacat.lonestar.org>, lars@salt.acc.com (Lars J Poulsen) writes: - UK uses a different dial layout from the rest of Europe and the USA. - I would expect Ireland to follow England in this respect. - In the US, a "1" is a single pulse, and "0" is ten pulses. - In the UK, a "0" is a single pulse, "1" is two pulses, - and so on, until "9" which is ten pulses. To find out the status - of this, ask your parents to look at the dials on rotary telephones. - If "0" is to the left of "9" rather than to the right of "1", - then dialling in pulse mode may require translation of the keys. - This is usually not convenient for older people. Well, I think you're confusing the UK and Sweden. Pulse dialing in the UK is just like everywhere else, I.E. "1" sends one pulse, "2" sends two and "0" sends 10. John Hughes (British expatriate, ex owner of BT).