Miguel_Cruz@um.cc.umich.edu (12/07/89)
Mark Cohen in Digest 9.555 mentioned a commercial suggesting viewers
"dial 411" in order to contact the advertiser.
Mr. Cohen suggested that this was a flagrant abuse of DA and said he
called his telco to inform them of this travesty.
But I really don't understand what is wrong with this...
A) it allows people from anywhere in the viewing area to find
the number for the outlet/branch closest to them
B) the phone company will charge the customer for the DA call.
Customers know this; if they don't want to pay, they can
use the phone book.
It seems remarkably straightforward. Many advertisers do it, and I've
never heard of one getting in trouble, most likely because there isn't
a conceivable thing wrong with it. Or is there?
Miguel_Cruz@ub.cc.umich.educ152-ft@cory.berkeley.edu (Steve Forrette) (12/08/89)
In article <1940@accuvax.nwu.edu> you write: >Mark Cohen in Digest 9.555 mentioned a commercial suggesting viewers >"dial 411" in order to contact the advertiser. >It seems remarkably straightforward. Many advertisers do it, and I've >never heard of one getting in trouble, most likely because there isn't >a conceivable thing wrong with it. Or is there? >Miguel_Cruz@ub.cc.umich.edu I've spent most of this year in Washington state (Seattle), and much to my surprise, there's no such thing as 411 in this state! When I first arrived, I tried it from a payphone (what did I know). It didn't work, so I called the operator. She said "Why would you dial 411? Directory assistance is at 1-555-1212" She acted as if she had never heard of 411, and it definately doesn't work from any phone I've tried. Also, no 611 (you have to go through the operator to get repair service). (Reportedly, 611 will "read" you the number of the calling phone if you're in a GTE service area).
Roy Smith <roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu> (12/10/89)
> [dialing 411 from a payphone] didn't work, so I called the operator. She > said "Why would you dial 411? Directory assistance is at 1-555-1212" In New York City they used to have an interesting hack (I think this was before the 212/718 split). If you dialed 411, you got DA for the borough you were in. If you wanted DA for one of the other 4 boroughs, you dialed 555-1212 without an area code. I'm not sure if this still works. Roy Smith, Public Health Research Institute 455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016 roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu -OR- {att,philabs,cmcl2,rutgers,hombre}!phri!roy "My karma ran over my dogma"
covert@covert.enet.dec.com (John R. Covert 10-Dec-1989 0957) (12/10/89)
>Mark Cohen in Digest 9.555 mentioned a commercial suggesting viewers >"dial 411" in order to contact the advertiser. >Mr. Cohen suggested that this was a flagrant abuse of DA and said he >called his telco to inform them of this travesty. >But I really don't understand what is wrong with this... > A) it allows people from anywhere in the viewing area to find > the number for the outlet/branch closest to them Valid observation: I'm sure this is why the advertiser (a chain) was doing this. > B) the phone company will charge the customer for the DA call. > Customers know this; if they don't want to pay, they can > use the phone book. Invalid observation: In-State Directory Assistance in Massachusetts is free to residential customers. (Can't expect you to have known this.) This may be partly due to the cost of distributing directories of everyone's local calling area. Although Acton's local calling area only includes the four exchanges Acton/Boxborough, Concord/Carlisle, Maynard/Stow, and Littleton, not all of these towns are in the local phone book (Littleton is in another book). Each of these other towns has at least one local exchange that is in some other adjacent phone book. It would not be possible to re-align the books to solve the problem, since _each_ town has a different set of surrounding towns. (I suppose it would be possible to list towns in more than one book, but that, too would increase the cost of the books.) Apparently N.E.T. has determined that the cost of distributing an additional phone book for all the adjacent areas to each customer (a requirement before the DPU could get away with permitting a D.A. charge) is higher than the cost of D.A. (At least all N.E.T. phone books can be had for free for the asking.) But I'm sure that residents of Massachusetts don't feel that Mr. Cohen was some sort of hero for reporting the abuse. Rather than helping to preserve our free access to D.A., Mr. Cohen's report is more likely to be used by N.E.T. as ammunition in their attempts to get approval for a D.A. charge without the requirement that nearby phone books be delivered without a special request. I'll try and see if a residential D.A. charge is part of N.E.T.'s $16 million rate reduction filing now pending before the D.P.U. (DPU 89-300, Public Hearing at the State House, Thursday, 4-Jan-90, 7:30pm.) /john
merlyn@iwarp.intel.com (Randal Schwartz) (12/13/89)
In article <1966@accuvax.nwu.edu> somebody writes: | I've spent most of this year in Washington state (Seattle), and much | to my surprise, there's no such thing as 411 in this state! When I | first arrived, I tried it from a payphone (what did I know). It | didn't work, so I called the operator. She said "Why would you dial | 411? Directory assistance is at 1-555-1212" She acted as if she had | never heard of 411, and it definately doesn't work from any phone I've | tried. Also, no 611 (you have to go through the operator to get | repair service). (Reportedly, 611 will "read" you the number of the | calling phone if you're in a GTE service area). I've lived in the Pacific Northwest all my life, and had never *heard* of 411 as the number for info until I began taking business trips to the Bay Area two years ago. And then, I had exactly the *opposite* shock. I was looking up a number, and couldn't find it, so I dialed "113"... the info number for PNW Bell (now US West Telecom). When it didn't work, I asked a local, and they said "411", and gave me this blank stare when I said I had tried "113", as if knowing "411" gives you information was like knowing that "0" gives you operator! I had never understood the line in Patty Labelle's song "Who's Zoomin' Who?" that "getting the four-one-one on someone" meant getting information. Suddenly, it all dawned on me. So, is the Pacific Northwest the *only* place in the country that *doesn't* use 411? (And we still don't!) Thanks for the tip about 611 giving calling-number-ID. Wow! What fun! It works! You mean you use that for "service"? Geez. We just call the operator. :-) Just another provincial local, /== Randal L. Schwartz, Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095 ====\ | on contract to Intel's iWarp project, Hillsboro, Oregon, USA, Sol III | | merlyn@iwarp.intel.com ...!uunet!iwarp.intel.com!merlyn | \== Cute Quote: "Welcome to Oregon... Home of the California Raisins!" ==/ [Moderator's Note: Hah! *He* thinks 611 gives calling-number-ID! Here in Chicago we know it reaches the Illinois Bell Repair Service. And for many years, 211 reached the Long Distance Operator for 90 percent of the subscribers, while 811 reached Long Distance for the other 10 percent or so. And what we used to call Enterprise numbers *he* probably called Zenith numbers. Just a local yokel myself! :) PT]
hakanson@cse.ogi.edu (Marion Hakanson) (12/14/89)
In article <2121@accuvax.nwu.edu> Randal Schwartz writes: >I've lived in the Pacific Northwest all my life, and had never *heard* >of 411 as the number for info until I began taking business trips to >the Bay Area two years ago. And then, I had exactly the *opposite* >shock. >So, is the Pacific Northwest the *only* place in the country that >*doesn't* use 411? (And we still don't!) I've also lived in the NW (in Southern Oregon 'til recently) all of my life, but I remember when 411 did work. And when it stopped working. We lived in the 503-459 prefix area (or whatever you call it), and one used to be able to dial "9" for the prefix if you were calling inside the local area. My memory is hazy, as this was when I was "just a kid," but I think you could dial neighboring prefixes using just the last digit, as well. Anyway, my best guess is that both of these things stopped working sometime in the late 1960's. I remember getting a recording that reminded you to dial "459" when you'd just dialed "9", along with my parents receiving mailed announcements warning of the cutover. No doubt an expert could tell us which old piece of switching equipment was replaced with which new one. Marion Hakanson Domain: hakanson@cse.ogi.edu UUCP : {hp-pcd,tektronix}!ogicse!hakanson
GREEN@wharton.upenn.edu (Scott D. Green) (12/14/89)
Here in 215 (Bello PA) one dials 1-555-1212 for *any* number in 215. Isn't that a little ridiculous? That's what I love about standards, there are so many of them.
shz@packard.att.com (Seth Zirin) (12/15/89)
In article <2121@accuvax.nwu.edu> merlyn@iwarp.intel.com (Randal Schwartz) writes: >So, is the Pacific Northwest the *only* place in the country that >*doesn't* use 411? (And we still don't!) Nope. My local loop connects me to a "Back Woods" telephone company named "United Telephone of NJ" and they also use 555-1212 for DA. They *just* upgraded to a "modern" switch from what surely must have been an old crossbar. I no longer hear 90 bazillion clicks before a dial tone and my answering machine no longer records 60 seconds of busy signal before IT drops incoming calls. Calling home from civilized areas of the global network no longer result in three and sometimes four fast pulsed switching (routing?) sequences. Now if only they could clear up the static I hear on my underground line when the wind blows... I recently made a local credit card call from one of United's payphones and heard only "Thank you". No "for using AT&T" or "for using New Jersey Bell". I'll probably have a coronary when the bill comes...
jsol@bu-it.bu.edu (12/16/89)
In Connecticut, you dial 1-411. jsol [Moderator's Note: Jon Solomon (jsol) was the founder of TELECOM Digest and the moderator for several years. PT]
tad@ssc.UUCP (Tad Cook) (12/18/89)
Regarding Andrew Schwartz's comments about never hearing of 411 used for DA in the northwest, they used to use it, along with 611 for repair. That was back when DA (information) was free. Then sometime in the 1970s Pacific NW Bell filed for new tarrifs, saying that they had to employ too many operators and that their studies had shown that most folks were dialing 411 rather than look it up. So part of the change was, if they were going to charge for the service, they made it so you were at least aware of change by making it 1+ and just like dialing DA for parties outside the NPA, 555-1212. Recently I tried dialing 411 from within the 881 NNX in Redmond, WA. It is served by GTE, and you do get an ID of the line you are calling from by a mechanized voice. Tad Cook tad@ssc.UUCP MCI Mail: 328-8544
edm@nwnexus.wa.com (Ed Morin) (12/20/89)
Here in Woodinville Washington (a GTE suburb of Seattle), 411 works great. I think we have one of the newer phone switches though because when call waiting beeps in my ear the calling party can't here the obvious click that one gets on other (presumably) older switches. Ed Morin Northwest Nexus Inc. "Unix Public Access for the Masses!" edm@nwnexus.WA.COM
dattier@chinet.chi.il.us (David Tamkin) (12/21/89)
Ed Morin wrote in TELECOM Digest, Volume 9, Issue 583: | Here in Woodinville, Washington (a GTE suburb of Seattle), 411 works | great. 411 works great to do what in Woodinville? To make your own telephone ring back, to tell you the number from which you are dialing, or (as 411 does in most of the rest of the USA) to reach Directory Assistance? David Tamkin PO Box 813 Rosemont IL 60018-0813 (708)518-6769 (312)693-0591 dattier@chinet.chi.il.us BIX: dattier GEnie: D.W.TAMKIN CIS: 73720,1570
Randal Schwartz <merlyn@iwarp.intel.com> (12/22/89)
In article <2239@accuvax.nwu.edu> you write: | Regarding Andrew Schwartz's comments about never hearing of 411 used ^^^^^^ That's *Randal*, please. Read comp.unix.questions! :-) | for DA in the northwest, they used to use it, along with 611 for | repair. That was back when DA (information) was free. Nope, nope, nope. Maybe in *your* neck of the woods, but it's always been "113" for local directory assistance (state-wide was 1-555-1212) and "0" for repair (or some seven-digit number). This is in Portland, Oregon. | Then sometime | in the 1970s Pacific NW Bell filed for new tarrifs, saying that they | had to employ too many operators and that their studies had shown that | most folks were dialing 411 rather than look it up. Yeah, this is about the time they switched. Just another old-timer 'round these here parts, /== Randal L. Schwartz, Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095 ====\ | on contract to Intel's iWarp project, Hillsboro, Oregon, USA, Sol III | | merlyn@iwarp.intel.com ...!uunet!iwarp.intel.com!merlyn | \== Cute Quote: "Welcome to Oregon... Home of the California Raisins!" ==/