john@zygot.ati.com (John Higdon) (02/05/90)
Last Sunday, during a Superbowl party, one of the many Pac*Bell
Centrex commercials appeared on the screen. One of those present
proclaimed, "I would never buy a PBX. Centrex is the ONLY way to go."
The guy was so forceful and opinionated that is became obvious that
the Pac*Bell spots are obviously hitting their mark.
This fellow, however, revealed a little telephonic naivety with his
pronouncement. The fact is Centrex is rarely a good idea for anyone.
Unlike a PBX, Centrex does not offer "user friendly" feature phones;
those with soft keys, visual confirmation, and multiple lines. Display
phones are not available with Centrex. Just the simple (for a PBX)
feature of having the callers name appear in the display would require
some permutation of Caller-ID through the CO! How do you access
features on Centrex? You flash the hookswitch, dial the code, hope it
works. There is no visual confirmation.
Music on Hold? No problem. Just send the program of your choice back
to the CO on a pair (which you pay for) and they will handle it. Need
to add a phone? Just place your order and they will do it on their
schedule, as is the case with any configuration change. Most PBXs
allow the customer to go to a terminal and type in his own
configuration change. Adding a phone is usually no more complex than
plugging in an instrument and typing in the change to the switch.
The only customer that could logically benefit from Centrex is one
that has a clear and pressing need to transfer outside callers from
one office location to another. With short-haul microwave, the
inexpensiveness of T1 and other technology, this is becoming easier
and cheaper to do with multi-node PBXs. Centrex is an outside plant
hog. It soaks up massive amounts of cable pairs and is conceptually
inefficient.
Ah, but with Centrex you don't have to invest in equipment, right?
Well let's put it this way: you spend as much or more in installation
and service charges as if you were buying or leasing equipment, but
you have nothing to show for it, except for possibly a "termination
clause". A termination clause provides that if you, for any reason,
discontinue your Centrex service before a certain amount of time has
elapsed, you are liable for some specified amount of money. And unlike
having equipment which you could sell, there is no way to avoid paying
those "termination charges" without being sued.
Add to this the fact that Centrex customers are served out of the same
equipment that provides regulated, monopoly dialtone to us, the
unwashed masses. When I call 611 these days, I am tempted to begin by
saying, "I realize that I am not a priority Centrex customer...".
They must be making a killing on Centrex to be able to afford all that
high-priced advertising. Or it's coming out of our ratepayer pockets.
John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395
john@zygot.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o !
[Moderator's Note: Unlike Mr. Higdon, I *love* Centrex. Pure and
simple. I have it on my home phones. I used to have a PBX and would
not go back. The PBX only cost me about a thousand dollars (in 1981),
but I can get a lot of centrex rental for that. And, Mr. Higdon is
wrong about making configuration changes. Illinois Bell has a service
called 'Centrex-Mate' which allows subscribers to reconfigure their
own lines; in effect act as their own service reps. The changes take
effect within a few hours, although there is a charge for making them.
They also have a system for large centrex accounts where they don't
literally run a thousand pairs if the subscriber has a thousand
extensions. They run maybe two hundred pairs, and use a few pairs as
control lines. Those, plus a relatively small (much smaller than a PBX
serving that many lines) gizmo at the subscriber's premises handle
everything. The control pair zips ahead of the call with a message for
the gizmo saying 'the call arriving on pair 96 is really someone who
dialed extension 2037' or similar. Likewise the gizmo takes outgoing
calls, finds a pair, and on the control line tells the CO 'the call I
am giving you on pair 127 came from extension 2481. Very clever and
effecient. While CPE is fine for some people, centrex is great for
the rest of us. PT]jimmy@icjapan.info.com (Jim Gottlieb) (02/06/90)
In article <3405@accuvax.nwu.edu> John Higdon <john@zygot.ati.com> writes: >Pac*Bell is currently involved in a saturation compaign to promote its >Centrex. There are very expensive-looking television spots, radio >spots, double-page newspaper ads, not to mention the direct mailings. And the funny thing is... When I tried calling the number listed in the ad to get more information on some of Centrex's capabilities a few months ago, I got the usual runaround and the "We're not trained to handle that. Someone will get back to you within a week." Followed by no return call. If they are going to spend our money on expensive ads, they at least should be prepared to deal with the responses they generate.
jgd@gatech.edu (John G. De Armond) (02/07/90)
john@zygot.ati.com (John Higdon) writes: >This fellow, however, revealed a little telephonic naivety with his >pronouncement. The fact is Centrex is rarely a good idea for anyone. >Unlike a PBX, Centrex does not offer "user friendly" feature phones; I'm with John on this one. A recent ex-employer of mine left a nice SRX-based PBX and bit the Centrex hook. What we got in return was: a) Very ugly and large phones b) No ability to reconfigure c) Voice mail that answers after X seconds instead of X rings d) No distinctive ring for outside calls (available for large extra fee) e) Extension numbers no longer followed phone sets as in SRX system. f) Disconnecting the phone even for a few minutes (as when one HAS to get some work done.) results in killing the line and dropping a trouble report. We did this a lot :-) g) GREATLY reduced reliability. Every contractor who decided to target the trunk for the day took us out. h) A new and large bureauracy to work through to get anything done. i) No call-waiting beep (available for large extra fee.). Callers get dumped to voice mail. (I HATE voice mail.) To me, Centrex violates one of the most basic business principles - never entrust a strategic resource to an outside concern. You are courting disaster if you do. Small example - whereas with the SRX system, a trunk outage would kill outside lines only, with Centrex, even intra-company calls are killed. This creates a general level of chaos. BTW, I spent some time talking to the Southern Bell installers while they destroyed a perfectly good system, er, I mean, installed the Centrex wiring. They did NOT install any mux or control equipment. They ran a fiber-optic cable from the CO to our building and simply piled all the lines onto it. Centrex may be OK for Pat's house but it really sucks for businesses. John De Armond, WD4OQC | We can no more blame our loss of freedom on congress- Radiation Systems, Inc. | men than we can prostitution on pimps. Both simply Atlanta, Ga | provide broker services for their customers. emory!rsiatl!jgd | - Dr. W Williams | **I am the NRA**
john@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) (02/07/90)
John Higdon <john@zygot.ati.com> writes: [big flames about Centrex] > [Moderator's Note: Unlike Mr. Higdon, I *love* Centrex. How did I know this was coming? :-) > Mr. Higdon is > wrong about making configuration changes. Illinois Bell has a service > called 'Centrex-Mate' which allows subscribers to reconfigure their > own lines; in effect act as their own service reps. The changes take > effect within a few hours, although there is a charge for making them. That's fine for IBT customers, but it's Pac*Bell that has those ubiquitous ads. To my knowledge Pac*Bell has no such service and if they do, it is only for their gigantic customers, you know, the ones that could buy and sell their own phone company anyway, and don't need Centrex. > The control pair zips ahead of the call with a message for > the gizmo saying 'the call arriving on pair 96 is really someone who > dialed extension 2037' or similar. Likewise the gizmo takes outgoing > calls, finds a pair, and on the control line tells the CO 'the call I > am giving you on pair 127 came from extension 2481. Very clever and > effecient. Gee, that sounds like DID. But what about the "best part of Centrex" (as the Pac*Bell ads trumpet) is that *all* of the equipment is in Pacific Bell's office? If you are going to have a (switch?) piece of equipment at your own location that isn't CPE, then it sounds like the days of "call the phone company and have a phone system put in here." I have a client with an ITT3100. It has been long since paid for. It has given them no trouble. I can make config changes all day long at no charge (I'm on retainer for their broadcast facility and throw in phones as a bonus.) The switch does ARS, DID, is perfectly expandable, and completely reliable. All trouble calls have involved a bad trunk (Centrex *never* fails -- sure, it's nothing but trunks!) and have required a call to Pac*Bell, anyway. > While CPE is fine for some people, centrex is great for > the rest of us. PT] I have Commstar II on all of my residence lines, for the record. And behind that is my KX-T1232. The "Centrex" is more for toy value than anything else. I have 16 phones in the house; I would never dream of having that many lines (nor would I probably be able to get them). John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o !
vances@xenitec.on.ca (Vance Shipley) (02/07/90)
In article <3560@accuvax.nwu.edu> John Higdon <john@zygot.ati.com> writes: >The fact is Centrex is rarely a good idea for anyone. >Unlike a PBX, Centrex does not offer "user friendly" feature phones; >those with soft keys, visual confirmation, and multiple lines. Display >phones are not available with Centrex. Just the simple (for a PBX) >feature of having the callers name appear in the display would require >some permutation of Caller-ID through the CO! How do you access >features on Centrex? You flash the hookswitch, dial the code, hope it >works. There is no visual confirmation. This will probably not be the first response to point out that Centrex can and does (Northern Telecom DMS at least) allow for ALL these features and many, many more! >[Moderator's Note: Unlike Mr. Higdon, I *love* Centrex. Pure and >... >wrong about making configuration changes. Illinois Bell has a service >called 'Centrex-Mate' which allows subscribers to reconfigure their >own lines; in effect act as their own service reps. The changes take >effect within a few hours, although there is a charge for making them. This is very interesting. Do you have any more details? - why does it take "a few hours" to effect changes? - is it really an automated order entry, one that recieves priority scheduling (gets typed into the switch by a human based on your requests)? - is it a feature of the switch? - or is it a "front end" application that provides a user interface on one side and programs the switch on the other? Does any one know of the availability of Call Detail Recording on Centrex? If so how does it work? Is it batched or real time? Vance Shipley [Moderator's Note: The service order changes handled via Centrex Mate are batched with all other changes, and put into effect sometime around three in the morning when all other changes for the day are done. Its like when you call the service rep now: the order is taken and you are told it will be 'turned on sometime tomorrow', but almost invariably is on when you wake up the next day. The rep types it in, but it does not literally start at that point. Centrex Mate works with a terminal and a modem; the customer dials an extension on his premises which really is an OPX, or off premises extension which terminates in the CO itself. Admittedly, Centrex Mate is only used by very, very, very large Centrex customers. Did you know Amoco Oil Company, which is headquartered here, gets billings from Illinois Bell for about one million dollars *per month* on local service and equipment only? Its an 8000-line Centrex; the CO (Chicago-Lakeshore) is in the third sub-basement of the Amoco Building itself. PT]
tronix@polari.UUCP (David Daniel) (02/07/90)
Both Mr. Higdon and our Moderator make excellent points re: CPE vrs.
Centrex. The make or break point is the customer taking the time to
fully delineate and understand his needs before choosing between the
two. As a telecomm sales rep, I'm perfectly willing to explore either
scenario with a client or prospect.
Tone Commander makes a nice piece of equipment (the name of which has
just scaped me!) that is designed to be a full featured Centrex
console. It received good reviews in The Jan. '90 issue of TELECONNECT.
Customer education is the key to the proper decision.
(but ain't that the way it's ALWAYS been?).
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love & understanding?"
Elvis Costellojohn@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) (02/08/90)
Vance Shipley <vances@xenitec.on.ca> writes: > [In response to my statement that there are no feature phones] > This will probably not be the first response to point out that Centrex > can and does (Northern Telecom DMS at least) allow for ALL these > features and many, many more! You're right; I have received considerable mail pointing this out. I already know about that. But Pac*Bell doesn't offer any of this, and my entire diatribe was a response to all of those expensive Pac*Bell commercials. I have been told that "feature phones" will become available with ISDN. A friend of mine pointed out that Pac*Bell would probably impose a corkage charge if I showed up with my own CO switch when ordering Centrex :-) Read my lips: Pac*Bell only offers vanilla, single-line-style Centrex. BTW, more spots have emerged, each one proclaiming a different "exclusive" feature of Centrex. The latest laugh is the one that shows a power outage. The split screen shows the hapless PBX user slamming his phone down (presumably because it doesn't work) and the Centrex user calling someone, and then saying, "Oh, the power's out here...". I'm sure with his computers down, his lights out, etc., he's going to get a lot of work done! But it's all moot: battery backup is quite common in PBX these days. Particularly in radio stations. > [Moderator's Note: The service order changes handled via Centrex Mate > are batched with all other changes, and put into effect sometime > around three in the morning when all other changes for the day are > done. How handy. Changes I type into the maintenance port of the ITT switch take effect immediately, at no charge. > Did you know Amoco Oil > Company, which is headquartered here, gets billings from Illinois Bell > for about one million dollars *per month* on local service and > equipment only? Its an 8000-line Centrex; the CO (Chicago-Lakeshore) > is in the third sub-basement of the Amoco Building itself. PT] Sounds like a bargain to me. Why don't they just call it rental of telco provided equipment? Or would that be a violation of the MFJ? Do you suppose Centrex is a very sneaky way to get around the proscription against telcos providing equipment? John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o !
Louis E Miller <lmiller@houxa.att.com> (02/10/90)
It was mentioned by a fellow poster that Centrex has dull, unimaginative phones. That is not always true. I just got a new ISDN Centrex phone on my desk. Among other things it has: conference , drop, transfer, hold buttons; speed calling, call forward, and automatic callback buttons; redial, mute buttons. It also has a built-in speaker phone, date/clock/call timer, message waiting lamp, and 2 line LCD display. The display can be used for incoming call identification or directory lookup via keypad. It also has a choice of 8 selectable ring patterns. I may be biased since it is an AT&T product and I work there. However, I doubt if anyone would call this a dull, unimaginative phone.
Dave Levenson <dave%westmark@uunet.uu.net> (02/10/90)
Our moderator writes, as part of the on-going discussion of PBX vs Centrex service: > ... Did you know Amoco Oil > Company, which is headquartered here, gets billings from Illinois Bell > for about one million dollars *per month* on local service and > equipment only? Its an 8000-line Centrex; the CO (Chicago-Lakeshore) > is in the third sub-basement of the Amoco Building itself. PT] I couldn't help noticing the obvious irony. If the CO is on the customer's premises, the difference between Centrex and PBX becomes more blurred than ever! Centrex is recommended for short-term service. PBX is less expensive in the long term, as it eventually gets amortized. My residential service consists of two trunks feeding an 8-station key system. The monthly charge for an 8-line centrex would probably pay for the key system in six months or so; my KSU has been in service for six years. As for feature-phones, the ISDN Centrex will someday be and answer to that one. Anybody know what it'll cost? Dave Levenson Voice: (201 | 908) 647 0900 Westmark, Inc. Internet: dave@westmark.uu.net Warren, NJ, USA UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave [The Man in the Mooney] AT&T Mail: !westmark!dave [Moderator's Note: Strictly speaking, the CO is not on the customer's premises. It is in the same building as the customer's premises, and Illinois Bell rents space from the customer for the CO. While Amoco is the main tenant in the Amoco Building, they only occupy about sixty percent of the total floor space; the other forty percent being occupied by a variety of tenants, including of course, IBT. The CO in the basement serves the entire building, plus a couple other office buildings in the vicinity. 312-856 is mostly Amoco; 856-0xxx and 9xxx are other tenants in the building. Plus the CO has a couple other prefixes in it; I forget which ones off hand. PT]
Dave Levenson <dave%westmark@uunet.uu.net> (02/12/90)
In article <3711@accuvax.nwu.edu>, lmiller@houxa.att.com (Louis E Miller) writes: > It was mentioned by a fellow poster that Centrex has dull, > unimaginative phones. That is not always true. I just got a new ISDN > Centrex phone on my desk. > I may be biased since it is an AT&T product and I work there. > However, I doubt if anyone would call this a dull, unimaginative > phone. As long as we are comparing Centrex with CPE equivalents, the obvious question comes down to price. Do you know what one pays for ISDN Centrex service? Also, Louis, from what telco, and in what state is this service available? I think the major incentive for the RBOCs to offer ISDN is to that they can offer Centrex that competes with CPE PBX and KEY equipment in features. What you described certainly seems to do that. We seem to know what PBX and KEY equipment cost. The price comparison ought to be very interesting. Dave Levenson Voice: (201 | 908) 647 0900 Westmark, Inc. Internet: dave@westmark.uu.net Warren, NJ, USA UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave [The Man in the Mooney] AT&T Mail: !westmark!dave