William Degnan <wdegnan@f39.n382.z1.fidonet.org> (01/31/90)
WW>I just noticed that on my phone bill I am being charged $0.94 per WW>month per phone line to be unlisted! This is rediculous, why should I WW>be charged for privacy? My question is can the phone company legally WW>charge for my unlisted phone number? And monthly at that? WW>Lance WW>*W.L.Ware In a FidoNet echo (partly in jest), I discussed the use of "other" names as the listed name as an alternate to unlisted/non published service. In a call to the business office: "Yes, I want to order a telephone line for my son 'Data' -- named him for the guy on the TV show." Anyhow, I think people might actually be doing this stuff. :) I have seen cases where people list their phones in their dog's name or other more interesting pseudonyns. I do not recommend it -- merely report the activity. Disclaimer: Contents do not constitute "advice" unless we are on the clock (and in this case, it is still not advice). William Degnan | wdegnan@mcimail.com !wdegnan@at&tmail.com Communications Network Solutions | William.Degnan@telenet.com P.O. Box 9530, Austin, TX 78766 | voice: 512 323-9383 William Degnan -- via The Q Continuum (FidoNet Node 1:382/31) UUCP: ...!rpp386!tqc!39!wdegnan ARPA: wdegnan@f39.n382.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Pushpendra Mohta <pushp@cerf.net> (01/31/90)
You can pay all you want ( or don't want ) for unlisting your number and yet there is no defence against your friendly area carpet cleaning agency who dials a few randomly selected numbers in your local calling zone. Much like recieving Junk Mail addressed to "Current Resident". And one would think adding your name to the phone book would make the phone company move everything one down too. No ? :-) Pushpendra Mohta
The Blade <blade@darkside.com> (02/01/90)
Maybe you can answer this question. I have heard in the past that there is some way (legally) that one can get unpublished numbers. Ive seen it advertised is a book, but never bought it. Any help? Blade [Moderator's Note: In the event of a dire emergency, or occassionally some other non-frivilous reason, the person with the non-pub will be notified of your desire to be connected. You pass your initial request to the supervisor; the supervisor in turn tells the Group Chief Operator; the GCO will call the keepers of the non-pub records and tell them of the problem. They will contact the subscriber and advise them that you have claimed there is an emergency and that immediate contact is required. Does the subscriber wish for them to give you the number, or would the subscriber care to take the caller's number and deal with it themselves? In any event, you won't be holding on the line waiting for an answer from Directory Assistance. You will have disconnected; and in due course you will be called back by a responsible employee of telco; you'll identify yourself to their satisfaction and they will notify you of the callee's decision in the matter. Police/Fire and other emergency service agencies can short-cut this *somewhat* by calling direct to their contact at telco; but even then, only selected executives at these agencies know *who* and *where* to call at telco; that information is available only on a 'need-to-know' basis. Most Bell telcos are very dedicated to protecting the privacy of their subscribers who have requested it. PT]
Colin Plumb <ccplumb@lion.waterloo.edu> (02/01/90)
In article <3353@accuvax.nwu.edu> kgdykes@watmath.waterloo.edu (Ken Dykes) writes: >I sure have a rough life here in Southern Ontario, basic unlimited >local service, quite a large calling area (population wise) for about >cdn$13.00/month ie: both lines together are $26.00 and I hear there >are places you can pay almost that much for *ONE* line!?!?? But we do >pay extra for touchtone, there are traditions to uphold... :-( Gee, you seem to be paying too much... I forget how much local service costs me exactly, but it's $8.xx a month for pulse POTS. Add rental of two of the classic indestructible telephones (they were called something 500's by some TELECOM people, I think) at $1.75 a month and a bit of tax, and my total local phone bill is about $13. Of course, I can add $100/month long-distance for myself and almost the same for my housemates combined and local service is trivial. Anyone know how to get a really low rate (I've got it to $7.14/hr using after-11 and a 15% discount plan) to *one number* in Toronto for a great many hours a month? I wish I could pay them $100/month to add Toronto to my local dialling area. It's only an hour and a half drive, after all. -Colin
john@jetson.upma.md.us (John Owens) (02/01/90)
These messages about non-published number charges remind me of how silly it is that I'm charged extra for a second listing. I have two phone lines, and two listings, one for myself, and one for my wife (who has a different last name). If I had each name listed with a different number, there would be no extra charge, but since I needed both names with the same number, I'm charged extra. At least, as mentioned here in other messages, I don't get charged for the second line being unlisted as well! John Owens john@jetson.UPMA.MD.US uunet!jetson!john +1 301 249 6000 john%jetson.uucp@uunet.uu.net
phil@wubios.wustl.edu (J. Philip Miller) (02/02/90)
>.... Police/Fire and other emergency service agencies can short-cut >this *somewhat* by calling direct to their contact at telco; but even >then, only selected executives at these agencies know *who* and >*where* to call at telco; that information is available only on a >'need-to-know' basis. Most Bell telcos are very dedicated to >protecting the privacy of their subscribers who have requested it. PT] I was under the impression that for some 911 services, that there was a direct connection of the calling phone number with a database which immediately provided the address of that phone. I had assumed that the content of that database came from the phone company. In fact, in an area like St. Louis, with almost 100 different cities in the city/county 911 area, this type of database is necessary in order to know how to route the incoming phone call. Thus it appears to me that the information is [at least in theory] readily available for the Police/Fire folk. Can someone in the know describe how this works in greater detail? J. Philip Miller, Professor, Division of Biostatistics, Box 8067 Washington University Medical School, St. Louis MO 63110 phil@wubios.WUstl.edu - Internet (314) 362-3617 phil@wubios.wustl - bitnet uunet!wuarchive!wubios!phil-UUCP (314) 362-2693(FAX) C90562JM@WUVMD - bitnet [Moderator's Note: Under E-911 service (the 'E' means enhanced), the name, address and telephone number of the caller are available to the emergency services dispatcher on a terminal in most cases. Coin phones are indicated as such. Calls passed by the operator do not display the information, but the operator is supposed to stay on the line and pass calling number verbally to the dispatcher. But this information only shows up on *incoming* calls. If the emergency services dispatcher needs to locate someone for an *outgoing* call, it becomes a bit harder. For example, the store catches on fire at 2:00 AM....the owner has to be called at home; but his number is non-pub. Another example: you are taken to the hospital in an emergency; the identification in your purse says to call a relative (by name, but no number), and the number is non-pub. Telco will pass messages like this in an effort to help. PT]
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (02/02/90)
> "Yes, I want to order a telephone line for my son 'Data' -- named him > for the guy on the TV show." Well, in Houston at least such shenanigans seem to be unnecessary. I just called SWBell and spoke to the service-entity: Me: "can I change the name my number is listed under?" SWB: "Yes, but it won't show up until the next phone book. We can change directory assistance now if you like." Me: "Is there any restriction on the name: does it have to match my billing name?" SWB: "No." Me: "Is there any charge for this service?" SWB: "No." Me: "Can I get a list of alternative long-distance carriers and 10xxx access codes?" SWB: "If you give me your phone number we will mail it to your address" Me: "Is there any charge for this service?" SWB: "No, but there is a $5 charge for changing your LD carrier" Me: "Why isn't this information listed in the phone book?" SWB: "The available carriers vary too much at different exchanges" I declined to comment further on that. _--_|\ Peter da Silva. +1 713 274 5180. <peter@ficc.uu.net>. / \ \_.--._/ Xenix Support -- it's not just a job, it's an adventure! v "Have you hugged your wolf today?" `-_-'
drake@uunet.uu.net> (02/02/90)
In article <3353@accuvax.nwu.edu> kgdykes@watmath.waterloo.edu (Ken Dykes) writes: >Well, I wanted unlisted, but didnt want to pay for unlisting, so I >used OLD TRICK NUMBER 5123443 and put in a name different than my own. >(K.Dijkstra instead of K. Dykes, original eh? :-) :-) A friend of mine got away with a similar trick one year; he listed his 2nd (modem) phone line as belonging to Mr. T. T. Y. Glass. Naturally this was listed as "Glass TTY ......345-6789" in the white pages. I think this only lasted a year. Sam Drake / IBM Almaden Research Center Internet: drake@ibm.com BITNET: DRAKE at ALMADEN Usenet: ...!uunet!ibmarc!drake Phone: (408) 927-1861
stanley@uunet.uu.net> (02/02/90)
In article <3393@accuvax.nwu.edu> pushp@cerf.net (Pushpendra Mohta) writes: >And one would think adding your name to the phone book would make the >phone company move everything one down too. No ? :-) Why do you think it costs so much to get a line installed? nn m m RRR i John Stanley n n m m m R R New Methods Research, Inc. n n m m m RRR i 6035 Corporate Drive n n m m m R R i East Syracuse, NY 13057 n n m m m R R i #include <disclaimer.h> stanley@nmri.com [Moderator's Note: Remember, IF you have an auto-reply from prior to 10 PM Friday night, and IF your message has not appeared in this or prior issues, then it is lost. (There were only about six in total, and above I named the ones I remembered.) PT]
Brian Gordon <briang@sun.com> (02/03/90)
Having recently read in this Digest that, at least in CA, "The Phone Company" does not charge for having a second line unlisted if the first line (same name/address) is listed, I called Pacific Bell to tell them to stop charging me $0.30/month for the "service". The service representative tells me I've got it backwards -- if your first line is unlisted (for a monthly fee) and you want a second line also unlisted, THEN the second line is free. Thus, according to one PacBell spokesperson, the first unlisted line (out of any number) is charged, and subsequent ones are not. Who is correct? Specifically, if I read the Digest properly and the second line should not be charged (first line listed normally), does someone have the suitable PUC directive/ruling/regulation/whatever reference to cite in my letter to PacBell? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Brian G. Gordon briang@Corp.Sun.COM (if you trust exotic mailers) | | ...!sun!briangordon (if you route it yourself) | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ [Moderator's Note: I believe the rule is (as it is here in IBT-land) that one paid-for non-pub OR one free listing by default is satisfactory for the purpose of waiving further non-pub fees. That is, if there is *some number* for DA to give out for you, then you have met the requirements, since the 'aggravation factor', as we used to call it is mitigated. DA has something positive to tell callers about you. Likewise, if you pay once to be non-pub, then there are no further charges; after all, is DA supposed to tell the caller you are non-pub at two numbers or more numbers? If they insist on charging for non-pub when you are listed at least once, then insist to them that each time someone calls DA, you want *two recitations*; one giving your number and the second announcing "at the customer's request, the number is not part of our records, etc..." PT]
tad@ssc.UUCP (Tad Cook) (02/03/90)
As a followup to Ken Dykes' story about the charge for unlisted numbers, I ran into an interesting situation when we got the new 5ESS service at my home, and I decided to "link" my two phone lines with residential Centrex. I told them that I wanted the second number unlisted, as I wanted all incoming calls to originate on "line 1". Originally they were going to charge me for the unlisted number. At my prodding, either they changed their mind, or they found a feature in Centrex tarrifs that did not charge for having unlisted numbers on all but the main Centrex number. tad@ssc.UUCP
tad@ssc.UUCP (Tad Cook) (02/03/90)
William Degnan mentioned funny name listings as an alternative to unlisted numbers. Recently, just for fun, I got an additional listing on my home phone for my HAM RADIO CALL LETTERS! They were suscpicious, thinking that I was trying to list a business on a residential line. I told tham that KT7H is my roomates name. It took a lot of talking and a few threats, but they did it. Tad Cook KT7H tad@ssc.UUCP
ben ullrich <ben@sybase.com> (02/03/90)
I think your original premise (and Patrick's explanation in the footer
of your article) are correct: as long as you have something listed,
subsequent lines at the same address may be unlisted for $0.00 .
I know this is the case, even for Pac*Bell, because this is the setup
I have at my home in San Francisco: my modem line is unlisted because
my voice line is listed. (Maybe it should be the other way around?..
or under a different name ??! (;-) ).
Unless they've changed things at Pac*Bell, I'd say your service rep is
mistaken. Ask to speak to a supervisor, or just be adamant and
logical with them about the rules as we've described them here. Many
reps will get nervous and put you on hold, looking for someone else in
their group to explain things, so they can tell you you are correct
and put the order in. I often had to do that when managing telecom at
my company. You'd be surprised to discover how little Pac*Bell service
reps know about the services they sell.
ben ullrich only i do the talking here -- not my employer.
sybase, inc., emeryville, ca
ben@sybase.com {pyramid,pacbell,sun,lll-tis}!sybase!ben
[Moderator's Note: I wouldn't be amazed by it at all. I talk to
business service reps frequently (as opposed to residence service
reps) at Illinois Bell and sometimes, frankly, I am embarassed for
them. PT]tony@oha.UUCP (Tony Olekshy) (02/04/90)
In message <3355@accuvax.nwu.edu>, siegman@sierra.stanford.edu (Anthony E. Siegman) writes: > No, no!! Tom Lehrer (or was it Mort Sahl) explained this years ago. > It's because, when they take your number out of the phone book, they > have to move all the subsequent numbers up one. You see, a phone company makes money off publishing your phone number, just as others make money off advertising. Actually, your phone bill would be about $1/month higher if they didn't do this. So, if you don't let them list it, they have to get that $1/month back from you! Yours, etc., Tony Olekshy (...!alberta!oha!tony or tony@oha.UUCP). "Its a Joke", D. Letterman.
Randy Bush <randy@m2xenix.uucp> (02/04/90)
wdegnan@f39.n382.z1.fidonet.org (William Degnan) writes: >In a FidoNet echo (partly in jest), I discussed the use of "other" >names as the listed name as an alternate to unlisted/non published >service. I have been doing this for years. It is amusing to get junque mail for Modem Bush. ..!uunet!m2xenix!randy randy@m2xenix.psg.com (Randy Bush)
peggy@ddsw1.mcs.com (Peggy Shambo) (02/06/90)
In article <3392@accuvax.nwu.edu> wdegnan@f39.n382.z1.fidonet.org (William Degnan) writes: >In a FidoNet echo (partly in jest), I discussed the use of "other" >names as the listed name as an alternate to unlisted/non published >service. 'Way back when I lived in Schenectady NY and was serviced by NY Tel/NYNEX, I had an interesting chat with one of the business office representives. She told me I could put my phone *listing* in any name I desire.. it didn't even have to be my own. I asked her "You mean I could use my deceased grandfather's name?" (thinking that a male name would be safer than a female name). "Yes", she replied. Peg Shambo | Scheduled date of departure for England: peggy@ddsw1.mcs.com | March 1, arriving at LHR March 2... Yay!!! | I am now an Irish Citizen, awaiting Passport
Mark Brader <msb@sq.com> (02/12/90)
It is in the telephone companies' interest if it is as easy as possible for its customers to telephone as many people as possible. Then, more people will want to have phones, and they will make more calls. But unlisted* numbers make it harder for people to phone people, because they have to get, and keep track of, the number themselves. So it is not in the phone companies' interest for there to be many unlisted numbers. (As an extreme case consider life in a country where telephone directories and Directory Assistance do not exist at all, as I've heard is/was true in at least some Communist countries. And if true, will this now be changing?) For this reason alone, a charge for having an unlisted number is reasonable. Indeed, this reason seems to me to make much more sense than the "exception processing" argument more often cited. In my opinion the phone companies' interest here happens to coincide with the public interest; if I was making the rules, numbers listed under fictitious names would be illegal and unlisted numbers would require approval (granted if there was harassment or the likelihood of it). Here, this term implies also that Directory Assistance people will not give out the number, or even know that it exists. Usage elsewhere may differ. Mark Brader "I can direct dial today a man my parents warred with. Toronto They wanted to kill him, I want to sell software to him." utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com -- Brad Templeton