aegroup@tekigm.UUCP (Dennis Ward) (11/20/85)
Several new groups are needed and several old groups should be renamed: net.micro.cbm should be net.micro.cbm8 for Commodore 8 bit machines net.micro.amiga should be net.micro.cbm16 for Commodore 16 bit machines net.micro.atari should be split into net.micro.atari8 for Atari 8 bit machines net.micro.atari16 for Atari 16 bit machines Similarly if either Commodore or Atari come out with 32 bit machines, then new subgroups could be established. ST and Amiga are too specific names, a more general generic name should be established so that if Atari or Commodore come out with new 16 bit machines with different names, the catagories would still be appropriate.
lenoil@mit-eddie.UUCP (Robert Scott Lenoil) (11/22/85)
In article <622@tekigm.UUCP> aegroup@tekigm.UUCP (Dennis Ward) writes: > > >Several new groups are needed and several old groups should be renamed: > >net.micro.cbm should be net.micro.cbm8 for Commodore 8 bit machines >net.micro.amiga should be net.micro.cbm16 for Commodore 16 bit machines >net.micro.atari should be split into > net.micro.atari8 for Atari 8 bit machines > net.micro.atari16 for Atari 16 bit machines > >Similarly if either Commodore or Atari come out with 32 bit machines, then new >subgroups could be established. ST and Amiga are too specific names, a more >general generic name should be established so that if Atari or Commodore come >out with new 16 bit machines with different names, the catagories would still >be appropriate. Why rename a newsgroup simply for the sake of renaming it? Net.micro.cbm has had its name for years. Its traffic has been steadily decreasing, especially with the introduction of net.micro.amiga. Commodore only has one 16 bit machine, namely the amiga (excepting its Z8000 thingy and its PC compatible, which aren't sold in the US, and hence have not been the subject of any discussion in these newsgroups), so renaming net.micro.amiga to net.micro. anything-else would be misleading and stupid (especially since ~.amiga is already too highly trafficked to support discussion of another machine. To summarize (for the Commodore newsgroups, I don't know about Atari): * net.micro.cbm currently only discusses the Commodore 64, with occasional articles on the Commodore 128. * net.micro.amiga only discusses the Commodore Amiga, and could absolutely not support any more machines. Therefore, renaming these newsgroups to more generic names (e.g. net.micro. cbm{8,16}) would not serve any useful purpose. I'd be willing to bet that the same is true for the Atari newsgroups as well. It sounds to me like Dennis Ward is a programmer that just learned about abstraction, and wants to apply it to every facet of living. Robert Lenoil {ihnp4,allegra,harvard,decvax!genrad}!mit-eddie!lenoil
joel@gould9.UUCP (Joel West) (11/23/85)
"What's in a name? A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet." Romeo and Juliet, by William Shakespeare In article <622@tekigm.UUCP>, aegroup@tekigm.UUCP (Dennis Ward) writes: > Several new groups are needed and several old groups should be renamed: > > net.micro.cbm should be net.micro.cbm8 for Commodore 8 bit machines > net.micro.amiga should be net.micro.cbm16 for Commodore 16 bit machines > net.micro.atari should be split into > net.micro.atari8 for Atari 8 bit machines > net.micro.atari16 for Atari 16 bit machines > > Similarly if either Commodore or Atari come out with 32 bit machines, then new > subgroups could be established. As I understand it, the 32-bit Atari will also be an "ST", and that it will have a similar architecture to the 16-bit Atari. (For example, you can bet damn well that a 32-bit 386-based IBM pc will be MS-DOS based.) If the new commodore is not an Amiga, no harm is done. The current system works just fine. (People used net.micro.mac to talk about the Lisa, and nobody complained.) Because enough other things are broken, there should be a bias for status quo barring some great overriding requirement. -- Joel West (619) 457-9681 CACI, Inc. Federal, 3344 N. Torrey Pines Ct., La Jolla, CA 92037 {cbosgd,ihnp4,pyramid,sdcsvax,ucla-cs}!gould9!joel gould9!joel@nosc.ARPA
jons@islenet.UUCP (Jonathan Spangler) (11/24/85)
In article <622@tekigm.UUCP> aegroup@tekigm.UUCP (Dennis Ward) writes: >Similarly if either Commodore or Atari come out with 32 bit machines, then new >subgroups could be established. ST and Amiga are too specific names, a more >general generic name should be established so that if Atari or Commodore come >out with new 16 bit machines with different names, the catagories would still >be appropriate. No, I totally disagree. You obviously have not seen the size of net.micro.amiga or net.micro.atari. It seems to me that if anything we *really* need to split the atari group, in the same manner as the split of the Commodore group. We need to have net.micro.atari for all pre-ST machines. Then, have a net.micro.520st or net.micro.st for the ST. Please, Mr. Spafford, if you read this, consider it a plea well-done. Aloha, Jonathan Spangler {ihnp4,dual,vortex}!islenet!jons -- Jonathan Spangler {ihnp4,vortex,dual}!islenet!jons
tynor@gitpyr.UUCP (Steve Tynor) (11/24/85)
References:
Here's another vote for a split of this news group. As an ST owner I really
could care less about the 8-bit atari machines. There seems to be an equal
split of interest in this group, and I'm reading ~10 new articles a day. I
think that justifies a split. If there are some 8-bitters out there that
are interested in the ST line, subscribe to both...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Progress means replacing something wrong with something more subtly wrong.
Steve Tynor
Georgia Instutute of Technology
...{akgua, allegra, amd, harpo, hplabs,
ihnp4, masscomp, ut-ngp, rlgvax, sb1,
uf-cgrl, unmvax, ut-sally} !gatech!gitpyr!tynoroyster@uwmacc.UUCP (Vicious Oyster) (11/25/85)
In article <1078@gitpyr.UUCP> tynor@gitpyr.UUCP (Steve Tynor) writes: >Here's another vote for a split of this news group. As an ST owner I really [Refers to net.micro.atari ^^^^^^^^^^] >could care less about the 8-bit atari machines. There seems to be an equal >split of interest in this group, and I'm reading ~10 new articles a day. I >think that justifies a split. If there are some 8-bitters out there that >are interested in the ST line, subscribe to both... In case anybody is counting, I'll throw in a "no" vote. Ten new articles per day (with an equal split, 5 ST articles), does not constitute an over- whelming need. - Joel ({allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!oyster)
warren@pluto.UUCP (Warren Burstein) (11/26/85)
I raised the suggestion of splitting atari into 800 and ST groups
a while back within the atari group, only I never counted votes.
Here is my proposal, please send me mail and I'll post the results
Is a deadline of 12/1 fair?
Resolved that net.micro.atari be replaced with net.micro.atari800 and
net.micro.st (because atarist sounds like a real word). The old
group should go away or no one will notice the new groups.
No flames please, just votes. Certainly no sarcasm since sometimes I
am dense and may count your vote wrong. So either say "no", or "yes", or
"yes but with different names." If there are more suggestions for different
names than just plain yeses I'll post all the possible names and we'll
vote again.fox@bnrmtv.UUCP (Richard Fox) (11/27/85)
> > > Several new groups are needed and several old groups should be renamed: > > net.micro.cbm should be net.micro.cbm8 for Commodore 8 bit machines > net.micro.amiga should be net.micro.cbm16 for Commodore 16 bit machines > net.micro.atari should be split into > net.micro.atari8 for Atari 8 bit machines > net.micro.atari16 for Atari 16 bit machines > > Similarly if either Commodore or Atari come out with 32 bit machines, then new > subgroups could be established. ST and Amiga are too specific names, a more > general generic name should be established so that if Atari or Commodore come > out with new 16 bit machines with different names, the catagories would still > be appropriate. I disagree with the above. If we start breaking everything up into groups based on certain aspects of the subject we would have: net.jokes.clean net.jokes.offensive net.jokes.bad net.jokes.notunderstandable net.jokes.notreallyajoke I think you get the picture! I like having the .cbm and .atari groups the way they are because I can post articles that may reflect all commodores and not have to post the article in many places. Any comments may be sent to /dev/null ....... rich
mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (11/27/85)
This is an obvious use of subgroups. The 520st group should be called net.micro.atari.520st. net.micro.amiga probably should have been net.micro.cbm.amiga, and net.micro.mac should be net.micro.apple.mac.
boomsma@ark.UUCP (Raoul Boomsma) (11/29/85)
In article <1639@cbosgd.UUCP> mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) writes: >This is an obvious use of subgroups. The 520st group should be called >net.micro.atari.520st. net.micro.amiga probably should have been >net.micro.cbm.amiga, and net.micro.mac should be net.micro.apple.mac. I think it isn't very useful to give the Atari ST group a name like 'net.micro.atari.520st'. It should better be called 'net.micro.st' or 'net.micro.atarist'. Reasons: It creates less subdirectories than you want to create. Much news administrators won't be glad if the tree for net.micro is expanded. This is also the case for net.micro.amiga and net.micro.mac. The name suggests this newsgroup can't be read by 260ST or 520ST+ owners. Better choose some general names for one type of micro- computer. My opinion is that a newsgroup 'net.micro.st' has to be created soon! -- Raoul Boomsma Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam ...!mcvax!boomsma@ark.UUCP
cdrigney@uokvax.UUCP (12/04/85)
/* Written 10:32 pm Nov 26, 1985 by mark@cbosgd.UUCP in uokvax.UUCP:net.news.group */ > This is an obvious use of subgroups. The 520st group should be called > net.micro.atari.520st. net.micro.amiga probably should have been > net.micro.cbm.amiga, and net.micro.mac should be net.micro.apple.mac. ABSOLUTELY NOT! Those would turn into: net.micro.atar net.micro.cbm. net.micro.appl Please, PLEASE, keep the unique-within-14 characters limit in mind when suggesting news group names; look at all the problems when the mod.computers and mod.protocols subgroups got all bundled into single groups. I say, if it isn't broke, don't fix it, and especially don't break it. Leave net.micro.mac alone, and if you must split the atari group make it net.micro.st and net.micro.atari, similar to the net.micro.amiga and net.micro.cbm split - let's try to keep things at 3 levels, no more, PLEASE. Thank you. --Carl Rigney USENET: {ihnp4,allegra!cbosgd}!okstate!uokvax!cdrigney
ralphw@ius2.cs.cmu.edu (Ralph Hyre) (12/10/85)
In article <9300036@uokvax.UUCP> cdrigney@uokvax.UUCP writes: > >/* Written 10:32 pm Nov 26, 1985 by mark@cbosgd.UUCP in uokvax.UUCP:net.news.group */ >> This is an obvious use of subgroups. The 520st group should be called >> net.micro.atari.520st. net.micro.amiga probably should have been >> net.micro.cbm.amiga, and net.micro.mac should be net.micro.apple.mac. > >ABSOLUTELY NOT! Those would turn into: > >net.micro.atar >net.micro.cbm. >net.micro.appl > >Please, PLEASE, keep the unique-within-14 characters limit in mind >when suggesting news group names; look at all the problems when >the mod.computers and mod.protocols subgroups got all bundled into >single groups. I say, if it isn't broke, don't fix it, and especially >don't break it.. In this case it is software that's apparently broken, USENET can't keep supporting old software forever, and it's important to have sensible names for groups >... - let's try to keep things at 3 levels, no more, PLEASE. The three level chauvinism will also make USENET harder to use effectively in the long run. Subgroups chouls be created where message content calls for it. Unix supports a fully hierarchical file system, and while an argument could be made for group names (net, mod, micro, computers, apple) to be unique within 14 characters (to support old 4.1 filesystems, for example), it is not practical from a user-interface point of view to arbitrarily limit name length or content, lest we have newsgroup names that are hard to figure out as Unix command names.
jra@jc3b21.UUCP (Jay R. Ashworth) (12/17/85)
Did I miss something, or isn't the 14 char. limit *per piece* of the name, since net.micro.cbm.amiga actually turns into /usr/spool/news/ (or whatever)/net/micro/cbm/amiga. I.e.: each part of a name, (at least in our 2.10.1, sorry if this has changed), turns into a component of a pathname. Since the limit is per *component*, not per pathname, the limit also applies to the component, not the enitire group name. Or am I just crying in the wind? -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Proma Software jra@jc3b22.UUCP Programmer/Analyst 9189 Park Blvd. (813) 399-1045 Boy Genius (:-) Seminole FL 33544 (So they tell me) <Disclaimer> <Disclaimer-Disclaimer>
cdrigney@uokvax.UUCP (12/17/85)
/* Written 1:49 pm Dec 10, 1985 by ralphw@ius2.cs.cmu.edu in uokvax.UUCP:net.news.group */ > Unix supports a fully hierarchical file system, and while an argument could > be made for group names (net, mod, micro, computers, apple) to be unique > within 14 characters (to support old 4.1 filesystems, for example), it is not > practical from a user-interface point of view to arbitrarily limit name > length or content, lest we have newsgroup names that are hard to figure out > as Unix command names. What's so hard to figure out about names? I don't know about news, but if you just say 'notes' Version 1.7 gives you a list of all the notesfiles and a one line description of each. I have utterly no sympathy for someone who wants to post articles going to over 1000 sites but is unwilling to read a 3-page list to determine which group it goes in. And do you really think there's ANYONE out there who wouldn't understand comp as short for computer? --Carl Rigney USENET: {ihnp4,allegra!cbosgd}!okstate!uokvax!cdrigney
jpn@teddy.UUCP (12/19/85)
In article <128@jc3b21.UUCP> jra@jc3b21.UUCP (Jay R. Ashworth) writes: >Did I miss something, or isn't the 14 char. limit *per piece* of the >name, since net.micro.cbm.amiga actually turns into /usr/spool/news/ >(or whatever)/net/micro/cbm/amiga. This is true with any software based on B news (available now for about 4 years). Unfortunately, the BRAIN-DAMAGED "notes" software stores all articles in a newsgroup in a SINGLE FILE, not in a directory heirarchy! Frankly, I am GLAD to see mod.computers.xxxx since this will encourage notes users to FIX THEIR DAMN SOFTWARE! As long as someone is going to fix this, lets also fix the 64K article size limit for "notes" on PDP11's (and other 16 bit "int" machines)!