Gene Spafford <spaf@cs.purdue.edu> (04/10/90)
I just called to apply for "The Universal Card." Everything went more
or less okay as the guy entered my name & address into the database.
Then he asked for my social security number. Well, I haven't given
out my social security number in over a decade as a personal protest
against its use as an identifier. It is abused far too often. If
someone doesn't pay me taxable income, they don't get the number.
Well, the entry clerk couldn't process the application without the
number (his program wouldn't allow it). So, he refered me to customer
service. At customer service I was told that it didn't matter if I
had any credit history with AT&T, or anyone else in the known
universe, without a SS# they would not process an application.
This is interesting. I've had an AT&T calling card for a decade.
I've been able to get two Visa cards, a platinum AmEx, and various
other bits of plastic, but I have never had to give my SS# to do it.
My credit record isn't golden, but it's certainly up to getting one of
these cards ... if AT&T would cooperate.
The customer service person informed me that the only people who were
preapproved for cards had their SS# on file with the phone company
already as part of their customer record, so I didn't qualify as a
pre-approve! Thus, those of you who were preapproved can take comfort
in knowing about the records the phone company keeps on you :-)
I asked that they send me a paper application. I'll fill it out
(minus the you-know-what) and send it back. If they deny it, I'll
file an appeal under the Fair Credit Act and see how they respond.
Neither Equifax nor TRW requires a SS# to pull a credit history, so
AT&T can't claim that it is required. The last time someone tried
this, they sent me the card rather than answer the appeal (it was
Texaco, btw).
Anybody from AT&T out there who can comment on this? (And maybe
comment on why the "customer service representative" was so haughty?)
Gene Spafford
NSF/Purdue/U of Florida Software Engineering Research Center,
Dept. of Computer Sciences, Purdue University, W. Lafayette IN 47907-2004
Internet: spaf@cs.purdue.edu uucp: ...!{decwrl,gatech,ucbvax}!purdue!spaf
[Moderator's Note: Probably the customer service representative was
'so haughty' because they perceived they were dealing with still
another in the growing number of people who mistakenly believe the
credit grantor *has* to give them credit no matter what. Credit
grantors are entitled to set any criteria they please -- save certain
illegal criteria -- and your options are to meet their criteria or do
without their credit. Credit is a privilege, not an automatic right;
and provided all applicants must meet the same requirements, there is
no unlawful discrimination; i.e. you have no valid complaint. You
chose not to identify yourself to their satisfaction. PT]chk%alias%csri.toronto.edu@alias.uucp (C. Harald Koch) (04/13/90)
In article <6210@accuvax.nwu.edu> TELECOM Moderator writes: >[Moderator's Note: Probably the customer service representative was >'so haughty' because they perceived they were dealing with still >another in the growing number of people who mistakenly believe the >credit grantor *has* to give them credit no matter what. Credit >grantors are entitled to set any criteria they please -- save certain >illegal criteria -- and your options are to meet their criteria or do >without their credit. Credit is a privilege, not an automatic right; >and provided all applicants must meet the same requirements, there is >no unlawful discrimination; i.e. you have no valid complaint. You >chose not to identify yourself to their satisfaction. PT] [ While this does not have direct bearing on telephones, it is an issue that has been brought up here a few times now. ] In Canada it only legal to require a SIN (Social Insurance Number) for things involving taxation or benefits from Revenue Canada (Canada Pension Plan, Unemployment Insurance, etc). It is illegal to require a SIN for any other purpose, including all credit applications (although most companies have a SIN box on their forms). I am not sure about the legality of requiring a social security number for identification in the US, but for credit it is most certainly unecessary and 'immoral'. While I agree that a credit grantor does not have to give credit, they certainly must have just cause to refuse you credit. If they do not have a good reason, (and not giving your number is not a good reason) then they are practicing discrimination, which I am lead to believe is discouraged in the US... :-) C. Harald Koch Alias Research, Inc., Toronto ON Canada chk%alias@csri.utoronto.ca chk@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu chk@chk.mef.org