[comp.dcom.telecom] On the Trail of the Elusive Octothorpe

ndallen@uunet.uu.net> (06/24/90)

If you refer to the symbol on the # key as a "tic-tac-toe sign", you
may not come across as terribly sophisticated, but you will be
understood.

kam@dlogics.COM (Kevin Mitchell) (06/25/90)

In PostScript the name of the character is /numbersign.


Kevin A. Mitchell                (312) 266-4485
Datalogics, Inc                  Internet: kam@dlogics.UUCP
441 W. Huron                     UUCP: ..!uunet!dlogics!kam
Chicago, IL  60610               FAX: (312) 266-4473

rpw3%rigden.wpd@sgi.com (Rob Warnock) (06/26/90)

In article <9204@accuvax.nwu.edu> erik@naggum.uu.no (Erik Naggum) writes:

| 	5#	means "five lbs (pounds)"
| This has later been confirmed by several good dictionaries and
| reference works (read: theory), but I've never seen in it practice.

It is often seen in the U.S. in the trucking/shipping/hauling environments.
It's quite common for packages or crates to get their weight in pounds marked
on the side with crayon or chalk in the "<number>#" form, usually as the
package is accepted into the shipper's system. (Many forms of shipping are
weight-based.)


Rob Warnock, MS-9U/510		rpw3@sgi.com		rpw3@pei.com
Silicon Graphics, Inc.		(415)335-1673		Protocol Engines, Inc.
2011 N. Shoreline Blvd.         Mountain View, CA  94039-7311

hardarso@weiss.cs.unc.edu (Kari Hardarson) (06/27/90)

I want to collectively thank everyone that set me straight on the
american definition of the pound. I am much the wiser now.


Kari Hardarson        
217 Jackson Circle    
Chapel Hill, NC 27514 

bobk@ncar.ucar.edu (Robert Kinne) (06/27/90)

In article <9204@accuvax.nwu.edu> erik@naggum.uu.no (Erik Naggum)
writes:

>Prelude: "Octothorp" (sans final `e') is listed in (Merriam) Webster's
>Third New Int'l Dictionary with etymology "octo + thorp, of unknown
>origin; from the eight points on its circumference".  "Thorp(e)" is
>archaic for "village, hamlet", but that can't be it.  

I have a lurking suspicion that the derivation may be from a proper
name.  Thorpe is a rather common family name in the UK and the US.
Perhaps at some earlier era a telephone engineer named Thorpe combined
the octo (eight) with his name to designate the symbol in a way which
avoids the confusion of some of the other usages which vary from
country to country.  Anyone have any knowledge, ideas, or folklore
along these lines?

>I've heard that the `#' symbol's meaning is context dependent:

>	#5	means "number five"
>	5#	means "five lbs (pounds)"
 
The latter is American usage.  The same symbol is also referred to as
'sharp', based on its usage in music (actually the symbol for sharp is
a bit skewed, but the octothorpe is a good approximation, as well as
can be done with ASCII or typewriters).  Most Americans will still
refer to # as 'pound sign'.  In the US, of course, pound is a unit of
force in the British Gravitational System of units (now archaic except
in the US).  Now everyone should be confused!

jem@hpisod2.cup.hp.com (Jim McCauley) (06/28/90)

In the index of `The TeXbook', Donald Knuth calls the <#> character
"hash mark."


Jim McCauley          jem@hpulpcu3.hp.com       (408) 447-4993
Learning Products Engineer   Hewlett Packard Company, General Systems Division
MS 48SO, 19447 Pruneridge Avenue, Cupertino CA  95014
Disclaimer: My opinions are my own, not my employer's.
 
From: ptownson@cs.bu.edu (Patrick Townson)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom
Subject: 
Expires: 
References: 
Sender: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: Boston University
Keywords: 

leichter@lrw.com (Jerry Leichter) (06/30/90)

 Several people noted (ahem) that # and the musical sharp sign were
"the same".  This is not quite true.  The musical sharp sign is
normally smaller and has its four lines at an angle to the vertical
and horizontal - often almost a 45 degree angle.  Even more noticable
is that the sharp is a superscript - it's not placed quite as high as,
say, a superscript 2 for "squared" - for one thing, it's bigger - but
it is definitely well above the baseline.

Obviously, different fonts will choose slightly different
representations for each character, so there may be some overlap.
However, the character is never raised (much) above the baseline when
used for "number" or "pounds", but is always raised when used for
"sharp".

BTW, yet another name for "#" is "hash mark".  Knuth uses that in The
TeXbook, for example.  Both "number sign" and "pound sign" appear in
the index marked "see hash mark".  (On the other hand, so does "sharp
sign".  However, an example in the book defines a \sharp macro as a
hash mark - but a hash mark raised above the baseline by .4 ex, .4
times the nominal height of an "x" character in the font.)


	-- Jerry

ellisndh@uunet.uu.net (Dell H. Ellison) (07/03/90)

In article <9236@accuvax.nwu.edu>, motcid!king@uunet.uu.net (Steven
King) writes:

> In article <9204@accuvax.nwu.edu> erik@naggum.uu.no (Erik Naggum) writes:

> >	#5	means "number five"
> >	5#	means "five lbs (pounds)"

> >This has later been confirmed by several good dictionaries and
> >reference works (read: theory), but I've never seen in it practice.

I thought everyone used 'lbs.'  I guess I was wrong.
 
> I prefer calling it the "sharp" sign.  It doesn't get confused with
> the British pound, and is much less of a mouthful than "octothorpe".
> That last sounds like it should be on the menu at a seafood
> restaurant.

I've found that most people (at least in the states) call it
a pound sign.

But I like to call it a Number Sign, because it's hard to confuse
it with something else.  (Many people are not familiar with music
terminology.)                                                       

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