telecom@eecs.nwu.edu (TELECOM Moderator) (07/15/90)
Before leaving on my trip, I mentioned that I spoke with the Public Relations Department at AT&T to obtain a reponse from them regarding their practice of illegally red-lining, or discriminating in the use of their calling card. As noted in messages here in TELECOM Digest, AT&T states in their advertising and in their tariffs that the calling card is universal and can be used to call anyone, anywhere, using the AT&T network. Anyone, that is, unless you are a Mexican living in southern California wanting to call home from a payphone at the place where you live ... or if you are an Israeli or Iranian citizen at JFK trying to call home before you board your flight. Then, the presumption by AT&T is you are likely to be committing fraud, so your call will not be processed. Is this type of discrimination by AT&T illegal? The last I heard, credit could not be denied on the basis of national origin; nor could neighborhoods be specifically red-lined and credit transactions refused in those areas. And anyway, even if entire geographic areas can be legally red-lined, i.e. the entire airport made off limits to credit card calls, how does that explain the fact that from the very same phones, calls to the UK and Sweden, to name but two examples, go through with no delay? Likewise in southern California, if you want to call Australia, that's just dandy with Mother ... but if Mexico or Korea is where your family lives or your business is to be conducted, you are out of luck. At AT&T Corporate HQ, I spoke with Dave Bickley, 201-953-7614, who promised me he would get back to me shortly with an answer. I left my voicemail number, so he would always get an answer ... but that was over two weeks ago, and he hasn't called back, despite my followup phone call a few days ago. I've a feeling this is going to eventually work into a class action suit against all long distance carriers. If they want to offer a calling card they have to be willing to honor it for all calls on their network -- not just the calls they prefer to deal with. Patrick Townson
grs@sacs.wa.com (Gregg Siegfried) (07/16/90)
In article <9738@accuvax.nwu.edu> our Moderator writes:
$Before leaving on my trip, I mentioned that I spoke with the Public
$Relations Department at AT&T to obtain a reponse from them regarding
$their practice of illegally red-lining, or discriminating in the use
$of their calling card.
$[...]
$Anyone, that is, unless you are a Mexican living in southern
$California wanting to call home from a payphone at the place where you
$live ... or if you are an Israeli or Iranian citizen at JFK trying to
$call home before you board your flight. Then, the presumption by AT&T
$is you are likely to be committing fraud, so your call will not be
$processed.
It is my impression that the "redlining" of various high-fraud areas
by AT&T is more for their customers' protection than their own. The
concern is that there are many people hanging around these areas
trying to 'spot' credit card numbers as they're used to make calls.
Disallowing the use of credit cards in these areas has a twofold
effect ... First, since you cannot use your credit card, an insidious
individual cannot spot it as you make a call, and second, the thief
with a stolen credit card number cannot use it in that particular area
as a "long distance reseller" as is the practice.
As such, I believe a class-action suit would be overkill. You may
argue that it is your right to give your credit card number away to an
onlooker if you feel like it, and to a certain extent I agree. On the
other hand, since the telephone company usually ends up footing the
bill for fraud ("Hey! I didn't make these calls! Take them off my
bill."), you can hardly blame them for taking such minimal measures to
cover their backs.
Gregg Siegfried Siegfried and Associates Consulting Services
grs@sacs.wa.com --------------------------------------------
{att,nwnexus}!sacs!grs +1 206 882 0879ecl@mtgzy.att.com (Evelyn C Leeper) (07/17/90)
In article <9738@accuvax.nwu.edu> telecom@eecs.nwu.edu (TELECOM Moderator) writes: > As noted in messages here in TELECOM Digest, AT&T states in their > advertising and in their tariffs that the calling card is universal > and can be used to call anyone, anywhere, using the AT&T network. > Anyone, that is, unless you are a Mexican living in southern > California wanting to call home from a payphone at the place where you > live ... or if you are an Israeli or Iranian citizen at JFK trying to > call home before you board your flight. Then, the presumption by AT&T > is you are likely to be committing fraud, so your call will not be > processed. Since I work for AT&T I may be considered a non-disinterested party, but how does AT&T determine that you are an Israeli citizen or a Mexican when you punch your number into the phone? (Or when you apply for the card, for that matter.) Evelyn C. Leeper | +1 908-957-2070 | att!mtgzy!ecl or ecl@mtgzy.att.com [Moderator's Note: They can't tell 'what you are' when you apply for the Calling Card or new credit card, other than perhaps making certain observations about your name and address. But if credit card calls from a certain ethnic neighborhood to a foreign country which is home to the residents of that neighborhood are redlined, then it might be safe to make some assumptions about AT&T's attitude in the matter, particularly if calls to the UK and Sweden are permitted from the very same coin phones, while calls to Iran, Mexico or Korea are refused. Their argument 'we are doing it to protect YOU' doesn't hold water, since calls to Israel cost the same, on the average as calls to Norway, yet airport payphones block calls to Israel using a Calling Card. If they were protecting me against fraud (instead of themselves, in what I believe is an illegal manner), they would disallow *all* credit card calls from phones in the areas in particular. Not just the calls to places whose citizens they suspect are likely to make fraud phone calls. PT]
cmoore@brl.mil (VLD/VMB) (07/18/90)
W/R to people hanging around trying to spot credit card numbers: There are probably loitering laws on the books (don't know the juris- dictions involved), but further discussion of this is beyond the scope of telecom. As a reminder: If the phone is rotary (or pushbutton pulse), a credit- card call requires you to read the card number to the operator, and a common source of fraud was/is the overhearing of such card numbers. If the phone is touchtone, you usually have the self-service credit card number entry available, and the problem then becomes that of someone watching over your shoulder(?). Corrections or more details, anyone?
"John C. Fowler" <0003513813@mcimail.com> (07/23/90)
When I call up one of my credit card customer service lines, they frequently require that I give them my mother's maiden name, or my ZIP code, or when was the last time I ate at a restaurant and charged it to that card, or something else designed to insure that it really is me calling them and not just somebody who found my card. How difficult would it be for AT&T to do something like this in red-lined areas? An AT&T Calling Card application is rather long and asks for all sorts of personal information, so they should have no problems asking something that only the true cardholder would know off-hand. Expense would prohibit implementation of this feature everywhere, but I think customers would prefer it to "Sorry, we won't put your call through" in areas known for high incidences of fraud. John C. Fower, 3513813@mcimail.com
ndallen@contact.uucp (Nigel Allen) (07/25/90)
0003513813@mcimail.com (John C. Fowler) writes: >An AT&T Calling Card application is rather long and > asks for all sorts of personal information, so they should have no > problems asking something that only the true cardholder > would know off-hand. If you want an AT&T calling card and do not already have an account with AT&T, you have to fill out an application form, which asks many of the questions a Visa or MasterCard application would. (There is a separate application form for university students, by the way.) The information collected on the form would allow AT&T to ask verification questions, as John C. Fowler suggested. However, I think that most AT&T calling cards are issued to people or companies who have selected AT&T as their primary carrier, or at least who can be billed on an existing LEC telephone account. AT&T might have extensive information about someone's calling patterns at its fingertips, but it would not know personal information about the cardholder, such as his or her mother's maiden name.
monty@sunne.east.sun.com (Monty Solomon - Temp Consultant) (07/25/90)
In article <10009@accuvax.nwu.edu> 0003513813@mcimail.com (John C. Fowler) writes: >When I call up one of my credit card customer service lines, they >frequently require that I give them my mother's maiden name, or my ZIP >code, or when was the last time I ate at a restaurant and charged it >to that card, or something else designed to insure that it really is >me calling them and not just somebody who found my card. Most of the time, the credit card companies just ask for name, address and zip code. This is an annoying farce. Almost anyone can obtain this information about you, especially any mail order firm where you have placed an order. Citibank has an automated attendant which asks for your credit card number and zip code. After keying in that information using a tone phone, you can find out your available balance and date and amount of last payment. There are no privacy protections here. I'm sure that lots of customers find this to be convenient though. I would like them to require a PIN or some other code instead of the zip code for identification/verification purposes. # Monty Solomon / <monty@sunne.east.sun.com>