annala%neuro.usc.edu@usc.edu (A J Annala) (08/14/90)
I do some data communications technician type contracting work from time to time (e.g. installing modems, analog line testing, protocol analysis, etc). There have been notes on the network about police confiscating equipment of the type I often use in my work. These devices include ATT Craft Test Set, Progressive Electronics 200B Inductive Amplifier, Dracon D814 Impact Tool, and a Progressive 77M Tone Generator. The police claim is that such devices are telephone access devices which should not be in the hands of the public. I am curious about whether any other technical people have been challenged by the police and what answer has satisfied them to go away without hassle. All of these devices can be purchased over the counter or by mail at very reasonable prices from Graybar Electric Company, 210 S. Anderson Street, Los Angeles, CA 90033 (213)265-7000. In this context it appears to be to be completely ludicrous to claim these tools must not be found in the possession of members of the public. They are ordinary tools. AJ
TERRY@spcvxb.bitnet (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr) (08/15/90)
In article <10844@accuvax.nwu.edu>, annala%neuro.usc.edu@usc.edu (A J Annala) writes: > The police claim is that such devices are telephone > access devices which should not be in the hands of the public. I am > curious about whether any other technical people have been challenged > by the police and what answer has satisfied them to go away without > hassle. Well, it *should* depend on where you are/what you're doing with them. If you're up on a pole in a parking lot in the middle of the night, they should be more suspicious than if you're working in an office in the middle of the night. It is always helpful to have the name and number of the person who authorized your doing the work handy. I was installing for a customer who had the misfortune to move his office during the great NJ phone strike. Since he couldn't get any service orders through, and I informed him of the probable backlog once the strike was over, we decided to run our own poles and cable since it was all on his property. I had a few inquisitive looks from the local police when I was up on the poles, since there was a *lot* of vandalism in the area (things like a pedastal terminal being pulled out of the ground by a pickup truck). In fact, one of the customer's building feeds (500 pr) was cut, and a *very* over-worked manager showed up to splice it. I wound up splicing it while the manager got a well-deserved rest, since I was about 4x faster. So, it depends on the situation. Even a simple screwdriver could be considered burglar's tools in the right situation - but if you indeed have business in the area, it shouldn't be a problem. Terry Kennedy Operations Manager, Academic Computing (& part-time freelance installer) terry@spcvxa.bitnet St. Peter's College, US terry@spcvxa.spc.edu (201) 915-9381
Jim Budler <jimb@silvlis.com> (08/15/90)
In article <10844@accuvax.nwu.edu> annala%neuro.usc.edu@usc.edu (A J Annala) writes: >I do some data communications technician type contracting work from >time to time (e.g. installing modems, analog line testing, protocol >analysis, etc). There have been notes on the network about police >confiscating equipment of the type I often use in my work. These [list of telecom devices deleted] >Tone Generator. The police claim is that such devices are telephone >access devices which should not be in the hands of the public. I am >curious about whether any other technical people have been challenged >by the police and what answer has satisfied them to go away without >hassle. >All of these devices can be purchased over the counter or by mail at [locations deleted for brevity] >appears to be to be completely ludicrous to claim these tools must not >be found in the possession of members of the public. They are >ordinary tools. Go down to your local hardware store. Buy a product called "Wonder Bar", or for that matter any of the similar high tensile steel *flat* crowbars. They are *very* useful tools around the home. *Don't* be caught carrying one of them at night behind someone else's home. The police call it a jemmy, and it is probable cause for arrest on suspicion of burglary. You can buy hollow point ammunition in any sporting goods store, but the practical difference between a hollow point cartridge and a "dum-dum" cartridge is none. And a "dum-dum" is illegal. The police *understand* how to determine realistically whether you are a burglar or a homeowner. They haven't a clue how to determine the same with the type of instruments you described. So they turned to the "experts", such as ATT and BellSouth. I think it was prudent on their part to go to experts. What is unfortunate is that they appear to have picked "experts" who have vested interests, and are willing to exercise them. The "police" have gotten burnt by BellSouth, and may be in the process of getting burnt by ATT. One hopes they learn from it. One point of view about this. If you were a policeman, and wanted to contact someone in a phone company, who would you call? Right, the *security guy*. Back in the old Marx Brothers movies, they were called "House Dicks". So now we have the police calling up their *security guy* at the phone company and saying "How can I identify a burgler?" Do you think they would get the same answer as they would get from Pat Townson, Gene Spafford, or even Robert Morris (take your pick of jr. or sr.)? I don't. Oops, sorry. Too long. But I own a "Wonder Bar", a couple handguns, and I recently bought over the counter some hollow point cartridges, and now wonder if these are "dum-dums" in police terms. I have to assume that since the "Wonder Bar" never leaves home, the pistols are at home or at the range, or in between, that I only have to worry during the "in between". Sigh. Jim Budler jimb@silvlis.com +1.408.991.6061 Silvar-Lisco, Inc. 703 E. Evelyn Ave. Sunnyvale, Ca. 94086
GSM@icf.hrb.com (Gary S. Mayhew) (08/21/90)
In article <10844@accuvax.nwu.edu>, annala%neuro.usc.edu@usc.edu (A J Annala) writes: > The police claim is that such devices are telephone > access devices which should not be in the hands of the public. I am > curious about whether any other technical people have been challenged > by the police and what answer has satisfied them to go away without > hassle. >>In this context it appears to be to be completely ludicrous to >>claim these tools must not be found in the possession of members >>of the public. They are ordinary tools. Here in the rolling green hills of central Pennsylvania, I seriously doubt if any of the ``LOCAL'' police forces would even know what the purpose of such tools constituted. However, in answer to your comment, I believe that a very sraight-forward declaration of purpose would seffice. I dabble into PBX installations on the side and would be ***stunned*** if stopped by the local authorities and questioned as to "why I carry such equipment?". Gary S. Mayhew Internet: GSM@ICF.HRB.COM HRB Systems, Inc. Bitnet: GSM%HRB@PSUECL.Bitnet State College, PA. USA UUCP: ...!psuvax1!hrbicf!gsm (814) 238-4311; 237-6345 {DID}; 234-7720{FAX}