"Sander J. Rabinowitz" <0003829147@mcimail.com> (08/23/90)
I just read of a disturbing development involving 800 service. Can anyone confirm or deny the following: (Detroit Free Press, 22 August 1990, Front page) "Starting September 15, with the football season opener against Syracuse University, fans can phone an 800 number and listen to the play-by-play of MSU football, basketball and hockey games, but for a price. "UNLIKE OTHER 800 NUMBERS, WHICH ARE TOLL FREE, CALLERS WILL BE BILLED FOR CALLING 1-800-CALL-300. (Note: Emphasis added.) "Football games, which usually last about three hours, would cost $36.50. To my knowledge (although I've subscribed to Telecom only since last week), this is totally without precedent. It disturbs me for the following reasons: 1) Up to this point, 800 service has been synonymous with toll-free calling (from the standpoint of the caller). It is conceivable that some businesses could abuse 800 service by advertising their number but withholding the fact that their number incurs a charge. (Or putting it in very small print.) 2) We have a five-year old in our house, and hearing of all the horror stories regarding 900 and 976 services involving children playing with the phone, we now have 900 and 976 service blocking. Now, with the advent of NON-tollfree 800 service, I am at a loss as to how to deal with it (aside from physically putting locks on the phones). Whereas I can generally do without 900 service, I don't think I can say the same regarding 800 service. 3) Businesses using 800 service should be outraged (again, assuming the above is true). If people become afraid to use 800 service because of the possibility of a charge, calls to 800 numbers in general may significantly decrease. Businesses that use 800 numbers as the primary means of dealing with their customers should be especially concerned. In all of this, I can't help but feel that Michigan State University deliberately took the 800 route to circumvent call blocking measures. This is a truly unfortunate occurance, and I would hope that this is the only time that anyone uses 800 service in this fashion. I am sending carbon copies of this message to Michigan Bell and my Congressman. Best wishes from Sander Rabinowitz MCI MAIL: 382-9147 Internet: 0003829147@mcimail.com [Moderator's Note: I think you will find the billing is on a credit card number which you must punch in when you first connect. You will NOT be billed by telco for the 800 call, but you WILL be billed by the University (or some affiliated organization handling university sports promotions, etc) via the credit card you authorize on the touch pad. Therefore, a person dialing that 800 number will be greeted only by a synthesized voice asking them to enter their card number. If it is not valid; or valid, but credit cannot be authorized, then it will simply disconnect you. Every example I've seen in the past like this has been for phone sex, horoscopes or similar services. I don't think you need to worry about anyone running up your phone bill, and I doubt your child has access to your credit card numbers. The price quoted, $36.50, would only buy five or ten minutes on many 900 lines. I suspect the University went with 800+credit card to keep the price down. PAT]
john@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) (08/24/90)
"Sander J. Rabinowitz" <0003829147@mcimail.com> writes: > 2) We have a five-year old in our house, and hearing of all the horror > stories regarding 900 and 976 services involving children playing with > the phone, we now have 900 and 976 service blocking. Now, with the > advent of NON-tollfree 800 service, I am at a loss as to how to deal > with it (aside from physically putting locks on the phones). Whereas > I can generally do without 900 service, I don't think I can say the > same regarding 800 service. Excuse, please. Pray tell, what do you do about all of those hundreds of "pay" prefixes (like 212, 303, 415, etc., etc.) with that five-year-old in the house? For years I have heard people moan the big groan about how tough it is with small children in the house who could accidently pick up the phone and dial things that would actually COST MONEY!!! But it is always in reference to 900/976 (the evil, wallet-sucking devil prefixes) and never about the mundane, simple, little-talked-about toll calls. Other than possibly the amount, what's the difference? Reminds me of an incident at a client's business. The controller was looking over some phone bills. There was (probably) page after page of major employee phone abuse -- personal short-haul toll. Many tens of dollars were involved. Then her eyes zeroed in on one particular call: Memphis TN. It was for $0.16., made on a Sunday. You would have thought that she had nailed D. B. Cooper. "I'm going to find out who made this call and make them pay for it." Sixteen cents? No the problem was that it was Memphis, TN. Never mind that office people routinely chat to their wives, girl/boy friends, etc., and run up bills for individual calls as high as a few dollars. It's that someone would have the nerve to use a company phone to call THAT FAR AWAY without copping to it. During the business day a local call of 11 minutes would cost $0.16. I wonder how many of those are personal. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o !
0003829147@mcimail.com (Sander J. Rabinowitz) (08/25/90)
"John Higdon" <john@bovine.ati.com> writes: >"Excuse, please. Pray tell, what do you do about all of those hundreds >of "pay" prefixes (like 212, 303, 415, etc., etc.) with that >five-year-old in the house? . . .Other than possibly the amount, >what's the difference?" First of all, I would never let the kid play with the phone ANYWAY. But this kind of this does happen ... and anyway, the amount DOES make a big difference. I am aware locally of a 976 service that costs as much for a single one-minute call as it does to dial ALASKA for at least twenty minutes! And where else do you get local numbers that charge you at least as much on a per-minute basis as a direct-dial call to EUROPE at prime time rates? The point is this: If I found that the kid was playing with the phone with strictly long distance numbers, it would take a lot of calls before the damage to the phone bill becomes serious, and hopefully I would be able to notice what was happening. But with a 900 or 976 number, a single call could inflict a lot of damage, and that's something that I'd rather not deal with. Of course, with 900/976 blocking, I don't have to deal with that problem. My original letter was concerned about the possibility of toll calls on 800 service, and I have since been reassured that there's no such problem. Above all else, I didn't see 800 service what 900 service is now. * * * Sander J. Rabinowitz 0003829147@mcimail.com
peter@ficc.ferranti.com (peter da silva) (08/26/90)
In article <11299@accuvax.nwu.edu> John Higdon <john@bovine.ati.com> writes: > MONEY!!! But it is always in reference to 900/976 (the evil, > wallet-sucking devil prefixes) and never about the mundane, simple, > little-talked-about toll calls. Other than possibly the amount, what's > the difference? Well, the money is significantly higher. But more to the point, kids aren't having advertising directed at them encouraging them to call particular numbers long distance (to talk to Santa or whatever). Peter da Silva. `-_-' +1 713 274 5180. 'U` peter@ferranti.com
roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) (08/27/90)
John Higdon writes: > people [with small children moan about] 900/976 (the evil, wallet-sucking > devil prefixes) and never about the mundane, simple, little-talked-about > toll calls. Other than possibly the amount, what's the difference? The difference is that there are very few TV commercials telling kids in California to call some number in 212-land so they can hear Jose Canseco talk about his whatever he was talking about, or True Confessions, or phone sex, or whatever. Also, if your five year-old were to rack up a $20 phone bill chatting with Grandma for an hour cross-country in prime time, would that be so bad? Even if it were $100 because Grandma was still in the Old Country, how mad could you get? It's still cheaper than a plane ticket :-) On a different subject, are long-distance DA calls from pay phones supposed to be free? I called 212-555-1212 from a 516-area pay phone yesterday and had to put in $0.40 (not bad, considering the rate card said it would coast $0.75). Once I got my number, I never did get my call placed because I couldn't figure out how to place a calling card call through AT&T (and this from a phone which claimed to be owned by NYTel!) Does using an AT&T calling card guarantee that your call goes through on AT&T, or do the various long distance companies accept each other's calling cards and cross-bill? Roy Smith, Public Health Research Institute 455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016 roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu -OR- att,cmcl2,rutgers,hombre}!phri!roy [Moderator's Note: The only thing which 'guarentees' your call will be placed on AT&T -- and then, only provided the owner of the phone and/or phone switch does not act in a fraudulent manner -- is by dialing 10288 on the front of every call. Other companies often times accept the AT&T card, but bill via your local phone company at outrageous prices. The card itself is no guarentee, but must be used in connection with 10288+1+10D to be almost certain. PAT]
cramer@uunet.uu.net (Clayton Cramer) (08/28/90)
In article <11299@accuvax.nwu.edu>, john@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) writes: >"Sander J. Rabinowitz" <0003829147@mcimail.com> writes: ## 2) We have a five-year old in our house, and hearing of all the ## horror stories regarding 900 and 976 services involving children ## playing with the phone, we now have 900 and 976 service blocking. ## Now, with the advent of NON-tollfree 800 service, I am at a loss ## as to how to deal with it (aside from physically putting locks on ## the phones). Whereas I can generally do without 900 service, I ## don't think I can say the same regarding 800 service. # Excuse, please. Pray tell, what do you do about all of those hundreds # of "pay" prefixes (like 212, 303, 415, etc., etc.) with that # five-year-old in the house? For years I have heard people moan the big # groan about how tough it is with small children in the house who # could accidently pick up the phone and dial things that would # actually COST MONEY!!! But it is always in reference to 900/976 (the # evil, wallet-sucking devil prefixes) and never about the mundane, # simple, little-talked-about toll calls. Other than possibly the # amount, what's the difference? The difference is that no one runs TV ads aimed at children encouraging them to dial prefixes like 212, 303, 415, etc. Further, even if kids did dial such numbers, the odds are remote that they would do so 20 or 30 times in a week. Also, SOME of the 900/976 numbers (NOT the ones aimed at kids), carry material that is utterly inappropriate for a five-year-old. It's unfortunate that the adolescent phone sex services are on the same prefix/area code as some of the other pay-per-call services. If they were kept separate, I would probably arrange for those to be kept unavailable from our phone, and the other pay-per-call services available. As it is, everything is off limits. # Reminds me of an incident at a client's business. The controller was # looking over some phone bills. There was (probably) page after page of # major employee phone abuse -- personal short-haul toll. Many tens of # dollars were involved. Then her eyes zeroed in on one particular call: # Memphis TN. It was for $0.16., made on a Sunday. You would have # thought that she had nailed D. B. Cooper. "I'm going to find out who # made this call and make them pay for it." # Sixteen cents? No the problem was that it was Memphis, TN. Never mind # that office people routinely chat to their wives, girl/boy friends, # etc., and run up bills for individual calls as high as a few dollars. # It's that someone would have the nerve to use a company phone to call # THAT FAR AWAY without copping to it. During the business day a local # call of 11 minutes would cost $0.16. I wonder how many of those are # personal. Doubtless, the call to Memphis wasn't the major cost to the company -- but it was the most obvious. Sorting personal calls from business calls Mon-Fri would be nearly impossible -- but a call on a Sunday isn't just clearly a personal call, it's someone who probably came in to the office just to avoid the charge. (Which says something about what a cheapskate and fool such a person must be, for $0.16.) Clayton E. Cramer {pyramid,pixar,tekbspa}!optilink!cramer You must be kidding! No company would hold opinions like mine!
heiby@eecs.nwu.edu> (08/28/90)
I believe that another reason why people are concerned about the 900 and 976 numbers and children is because children see Santa Claus on TV telling them to dial a 976 or 900 number to find out what's happening at the North Pole. They see comic book heros telling them to dial the phone to find out their latest adventures. I've yet to see a commercial on TV asking kids to phone a non-976/900 number. Ron Heiby, heiby@chg.mcd.mot.com Moderator: comp.newprod
"Craig R. Watkins" <CRW@icf.hrb.com> (08/28/90)
In article <11410@accuvax.nwu.edu>, roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes: > On a different subject, are long-distance DA calls from pay > phones supposed to be free? I don't know of anywhere which requires free LD DA calls from pay phones. However, when I use AT&T and use my calling card to "pay" for the LD DA call, it never appears on my bill. I don't know if there is any limit per month or a requirement that a matching number of toll LD calls be placed, etc. Craig R. Watkins Internet: CRW@ICF.HRB.COM HRB Systems, Inc. Bitnet: CRW%HRB@PSUECL.Bitnet +1 814 238-4311 UUCP: ...!psuvax1!hrbicf!crw
peter da silva <peter@ficc.ferranti.com> (08/31/90)
In article <11409@accuvax.nwu.edu> optilink!cramer@uunet.uu.net (Clayton Cramer writes: > a call on a Sunday [is] someone who probably came in > to the office just to avoid the charge. (Which says something about > what a cheapskate and fool such a person must be, for $0.16.) This is an unfounded assumption. It could just be someone who came to work on a Sunday. And someone who does that probably deserves a few personal calls. Peter da Silva. `-_-' +1 713 274 5180. 'U` peter@ferranti.com [Moderator's Note: It may also be they called in on the company's WATS extender, like I do when I work at home for my firm. PAT]